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Author Topic: Chas Campbell free power motor  (Read 721710 times)

hartiberlin

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #465 on: September 08, 2007, 03:18:03 AM »
So all,
I am tired now and going to bed,
well, looking forward to a calculation from  Hans...

hansvonlieven

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #466 on: September 08, 2007, 03:18:04 AM »
G'day Stefan,

The moment you stop the wheel you are going to lose the little bit of inertia that you had at that point, I cannot see how that would help.

Hans von Lieven

hansvonlieven

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #467 on: September 08, 2007, 03:19:29 AM »
Good night Stefan,

It's been fun

Hans von Lieven

Humbugger

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #468 on: September 08, 2007, 03:20:47 AM »


Wrong!  Please just go and look at the diagram i drew.  If the radius is greater than 3.8763, there will be times when no ball is on the right.


Please show this in a drawing.
I don?t see that.
Please use 8 balls.

The wheel can always be stopped for a period, so there is enough time
for the ball roll also 10 times as far away from the axis !

Also there is a unit, I don?t remember how it is called, where 2 balls are started at the same height,
rolling down a small long incline..
and one ball is rolling then in a deeper slope and thus getting faster speed and when it comes
up again to the higher level it leaves the track earlier than the other one.
Both had the same potential energy level when the track was finished, but one
ball left it earlier, so this device could be used to speed up the balls speed to get to the 4x distance !


Speed has nothing to do with this discussion at this point.  I already drew the drawing.  It has eight balls. 

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2487.msg48099.html#msg48099

rMuD

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #469 on: September 08, 2007, 03:21:20 AM »


Wrong!  Please just go and look at the diagram i drew.  If the radius is greater than 3.8763, there will be times when no ball is on the right.


Please show this in a drawing.
I don?t see that.
Please use 8 balls.

The wheel can always be stopped for a period, so there is enough time
for the ball roll also 10 times as far away from the axis !

Also there is a unit, I don?t remember how it is called, where 2 balls are started at the same height,
rolling down a small long incline..
and one ball is rolling then in a deeper slope and thus getting faster speed and when it comes
up again to the higher level it leaves the track earlier than the other one.
Both had the same potential energy level when the track was finished, but one
ball left it earlier, so this device could be used to speed up the balls speed to get to the 4x distance !


the steeper slope is shorter, the balls would both land the same distance away once they left the track, with correction for friction on the longer run

rMuD

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #470 on: September 08, 2007, 03:24:54 AM »
G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

Then why don?t you calculate  the torque arms ?
Where is my error in my calculation ?

Here it is once again:

2 balls 0.5 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
2 balls 0.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.6 units
1 ball   1.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
====================================
sum= 3.6 units

On the right side we have then only for 2 x 15 degrees:

1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

Divided by 2 cause only for 30 instead of 60 degres rotation
we still have a 3.9 versus 3.6 advantage.



1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

for 2 balls to be on the 4x arm... they would both be at 15 degrees off center..  not one 15 degrees off from each other, were working with a 30 degree seperation from each other, there would be no way for 1 ball to be at 4

2 balls at 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 7.6   

divide by 2  = 3.6

3.6 = 3.6

I think we wasted 5 pages for that?

FreeEnergy

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #471 on: September 08, 2007, 03:31:16 AM »
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1513.0;attach=3183;image)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1513.0.html

hansvonlieven

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #472 on: September 08, 2007, 03:31:25 AM »
G'day again

Also, couldnt a Smot type of one way magnetics setup also provide upwards thrust
potential?

On that one you are right zero, the system clearly needs an injection of energy from somewhere in order to function

Hans von Lieven

hartiberlin

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #473 on: September 08, 2007, 03:34:21 AM »
??? 7.6 / 2= 3.8...
YOu are probably tired too..

rMuD

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #474 on: September 08, 2007, 03:38:02 AM »
I have no excuse, it's only 9:30pm here  :(   

??? 7.6 / 2= 3.8...
YOu are probably tired too..

Humbugger

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #475 on: September 08, 2007, 03:42:24 AM »
G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

Then why don?t you calculate  the torque arms ?
Where is my error in my calculation ?

Here it is once again:

2 balls 0.5 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
2 balls 0.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.6 units
1 ball   1.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
====================================
sum= 3.6 units

On the right side we have then only for 2 x 15 degrees:

1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

Divided by 2 cause only for 30 instead of 60 degres rotation
we still have a 3.9 versus 3.6 advantage.



1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

for 2 balls to be on the 4x arm... they would both be at 15 degrees off center..  not one 15 degrees off from each other, were working with a 30 degree seperation from each other, there would be no way for 1 ball to be at 4

2 balls at 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 7.6   

divide by 2  = 3.6

3.6 = 3.6

I think we wasted 5 pages for that?

@rMuD and Stefan

Nobody understands I guess.  YOU CAN'T GET TWO BALLS ON THE RIGHT SIDE AT ANY TIME IF THE WHEEL IS 4/1 RATIO.  THE BEST YOU WILL HAVE IS ONE; SOMETIMES NONE.

Sleep on it...look at it again tomorrow...I'm not crazy...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2487.msg48099.html#msg48099

Guten Nacht,

Humbugger

zero

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #476 on: September 08, 2007, 03:49:01 AM »
Just in case it was misunderstood,  heres a 3d and side view.

 Also, there is the idea of trying to change the angle of decent to
a steeper angle for more power..   And or to give more width to the
unit - thus increasing the time where the ball can generate more
speed.

 However, I think its probably best just to keep it 
narrow,  and increase the drop angle.


Humbugger

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #477 on: September 08, 2007, 03:55:43 AM »
Just in case it was misunderstood,  heres a 3d and side view.

 Also, there is the idea of trying to change the angle of decent to
a steeper angle for more power..   And or to give more width to the
unit - thus increasing the time where the ball can generate more
speed.

 However, I think its probably best just to keep it 
narrow,  and increase the drop angle.



I am guessing you are a stubborn enough optimist that you will have to build it (maybe several times) to prove to yourself it does not work.  Oh well!  You're in the right place for that kind of thinking.  It's the norm here.  Best of luck to you.  I'm old and haven't that much time on my hands, so I'm probably just a wee bit jealous of the luxury.

Humbugger
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 04:19:31 AM by Humbugger »

rMuD

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #478 on: September 08, 2007, 04:00:40 AM »
G'day Stefan,

You are still stuck with the basic problem and that is how to rotate the entire assembly 30 degrees to bring the next ball into play when you only have 27 degrees or less to play with and only one ball to do it with. The potential energy in the system does not change with a 3 dimensional arrangement or any other arrangement.

Incidentally zero, I am a qualified engineer, physics major at that :-)

Hans von Lieven

Then why don?t you calculate  the torque arms ?
Where is my error in my calculation ?

Here it is once again:

2 balls 0.5 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
2 balls 0.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.6 units
1 ball   1.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 1.0 units
====================================
sum= 3.6 units

On the right side we have then only for 2 x 15 degrees:

1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

Divided by 2 cause only for 30 instead of 60 degres rotation
we still have a 3.9 versus 3.6 advantage.



1 ball 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 3.8 units
1 ball 4.0 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 4.0 units
===================================
sum= 7.8 units

for 2 balls to be on the 4x arm... they would both be at 15 degrees off center..  not one 15 degrees off from each other, were working with a 30 degree seperation from each other, there would be no way for 1 ball to be at 4

2 balls at 3.8 distance from axis x 1 Kg = 7.6   

divide by 2  = 3.6

3.6 = 3.6

I think we wasted 5 pages for that?

so it 's really 3.8, but it's not

at 3.8763x the size is 30 degrees  4:1 is less than 30 degrees

there are never more than 1 ball in the system  + the > 10% of the time there is a -3.6 

3.6 :  1.64

if we did balls every 15 degree it would be around 7.0 : 3.9 (guess)

Humbugger

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Re: Chas Campbell free power motor
« Reply #479 on: September 08, 2007, 04:14:41 AM »
rMuD hurrah!  I knew you'd gotten it!  Thank you! 

Maybe our fearless but sleep-deprived moderator will see it all in his dreams...

At anything above 3.8763, the lower ball is off the wheel BEFORE the upper ball comes on the wheel!  


ok...I guess I'm off to whip the children, kick the dog, beat the wife, smoke a hemp cigar, get drunk and get arrested...all is well...someone gets it!


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 

Humbugger