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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: majkl on May 28, 2007, 01:30:40 AM

Title: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: majkl on May 28, 2007, 01:30:40 AM
"John Kanzius discovered that his radio frequency generator could release the oxygen and hydrogen from saltwater and create an incredibly intense flame."

Watch my video-collection of this invention ;-)
http://magistrala.cz/freeenergy/?p=13
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on May 28, 2007, 02:45:34 AM
Well then . Tell that guy to be careful . I am not sure he fully understands what he is doing. Stuff can get out of hand .


Prepare your self , H can go critical very quickly in this situation.
If the  discoverer wants to talk to someone that knows .
IronHead
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: keithturtle on May 28, 2007, 02:52:09 AM
Here's another link with a slideshow link, top right.

http://www.wpbf.com/news/13383827/detail.html

The interesting thing is there apparently is no intended ignition- seems to auto-combust as soon as it gets in the frequency field...
hmmmm...

Wondering how many turtles he has...

Keith
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on May 28, 2007, 02:59:22 AM
This guy has a possible self ignition bomb here. If he pulls all of the electrons off the H atom, the thing  will go nuclear and the lab will be no more.

I would really like to talk with this guy
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: lancaIV on May 28, 2007, 11:54:45 AM
Instead of a shock-gun there will be in future a new kind of weapon:
RF-based,
"Inside BURNING MENS"

S
  dL
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Super on May 28, 2007, 12:39:58 PM
 ... i'm afraid that military will buy it  :(
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 12:43:49 PM
In one video he says he has:
a
13.56 MHZ
generator.

So we at least now know, whatfrequency he is using.

Now the question is, what kind of antenna field is behind
the white boxes and exactly how much electrical power is
needed to generated this hydrogen flame and how much
heat power the hydrogen flame puts out.

It does not make sense, when the heat power output is
lower than the electrical input into the 13.56 MHZ
generator...but maybe this can be optimized by
better antenna coupling, so the effect will be indeed overunity ?

It needs to be more heat output than electrical input to be
efficient at all !
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 01:00:53 PM
So we now know, he is using 200 Watts
of RF power.
The question is also, how efficient his
RF generator is.

Here is a new report:



As reported in 5/17/07 edition of Erie Times

SPARK O F INNOVATION



How John Kanzius? push to cure cancer may have discovered alternate fuel


By DAVID BRUCE david.bruce@timesnews.com



Charles Rutkowski placed a test tube filled with ordinary salt water into John Kanzius? external radio-wave generator.
He then blasted the salt water with 200 watts? worth of directed radio waves, not quite enough electricity to light three 75-watt light bulbs.
Within seconds, a blue flame erupted from the top of the test tube. It then turned bright white like a blowtorch?s flame and burned for several minutes at about 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
?I?ve done this countless times and it still amazes me,? said Rutkowski, general manager of Industrial Sales and Manufacturing, the Millcreek company that builds Kanzius? generators. ?Here we are paying $3 a gallon for gas, and this is a device that seems to turn salt water into an alternative fuel.?
Kanzius, a retired radio and television broadcaster and engineer, didn?t create his radio-wave generator to burn salt water. He designed it to cure cancer.
Now the same machine appears to convert salt water into fuel.
?It was all a fluke,? said Kanzius. ?We were showing the device to a foreign official last October. He saw condensation while we demonstrated it and suggested using it to desalinate salt water.?
The ramifications could be enormous. If Kanzius can reproduce the effect on large quantities of salt water, it could be used as an alternative fuel.
Cars could run on engines powered by salt water instead of gasoline. Hydroelectric plants could be built along almost any shoreline.
?It doesn?t have to be ocean salt water,? Kanzius said. ?It burns just as well when we add salt to tap water.?
Early tests didn?t work. But when Rutkowski accidentally bumped the test tube while it was being blasted with radio waves, he saw sparks inside the tube.
After several months of finetuning, Kanzius and Rutkowski were able to ignite the salt water on a consistent basis.
?The key was filling the test tube to the brim and then adding a couple more drops,? Kanzius said.
An Allegheny College chemistry professor said that she couldn?t imagine that bombarding salt water with radio waves would generate that kind of heat.
?There doesn?t seem to be enough energy in radio waves to break the chemical bonds and cause that kind of reaction,? said Alice Deckert, Ph.D., chairwoman of Allegheny?s Chemistry Department. ?I have never heard of such a thing.?
Kanzius will unveil his generator?s new capabilities today at a news conference but he gave the Erie Times-News a sneak peek last week.
?We discovered that if you use a piece of paper towel as a wick, it lights every single time and you can start it and stop it at will by turning the radio waves on and off,? Kanzius said as he watched a test tube of salt water burn at a lab at Industrial Sales and Manufacturing. ?And look, the paper itself doesn?t burn,? Kanzius added. ?Well, it burns but the paper is not consumed.? Kanzius has demonstrated his generator?s new use to a andful of people, including U.S. Rep. Phil English of Erie, nd Ed Apsega, general managr of Akron Paint and Varnish, northeastern Ohio-based ompany that helps Kanzius ith lab testing.
with scientific research, having helped design tires for the space shuttle when he worked at B.F. Goodrich in the 1980s.
?But when I saw this, it was the most amazing thing I ever saw and I?ve been around for a lot of stuff,? he said.
?It?s so unique and off the wall. ? It?s just amazing that you can do this with radio waves, something that is all around us,? he said.
Kanzius said that he hasn?t decided whether to share his invention?s new use with government or private business, though he would rather try to get a federal grant to develop it.
?I?m afraid that if I join up with some big energy company, they will say it doesn?t work and shelve it, even if it does work,? Kanzius said.
HOW IT WORKS
John Kanzius isn?t sure how his radio-wave generator causes salt water to erupt into flame. He was still awaiting test results Wednesday night but was ?99.9 percent sure? that the radio waves broke bonds in the salt water that released flammable hydrogen gas.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 01:06:49 PM
Maybe he is just using his frequency as a catalyst
as in this thread proposed ?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2396.0.html

At least it seems to work this way quite well !
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 01:28:27 PM
Here is attached the PDF file of his patent.
There are also some good diagrams of his RF power setup.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: dutchy1966 on May 28, 2007, 05:18:48 PM
Maybe he is just using his frequency as a catalyst
as in this thread proposed ?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2396.0.html

At least it seems to work this way quite well !

Hi Stefan,

If that would be the case then the frequency can point us to a substance that is the catalyst for the process. If we can find a substance with a NMR frequency of 13.56 mhz then that is our catalyst..... Maybe we can then understand it better from a chemical point of view...

Robert
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hanker886 on May 28, 2007, 06:22:11 PM
But the flame doesnt look like HHO flame at all. It's much slower than HHO and organge while HHO burns almost transparent.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on May 28, 2007, 06:32:15 PM
He is producing pure parahydrogen  , this is the outcome of high freq methods.
This the stuff that will run an engine with no modifications to valves,piston and such.Color is from many impurity's in the water itself.
The high RF causes the electrons to move to a high orbit and into a very high excited state to the point of disassociation .

If any of you try working on such a thing you must not  do this in the open.
You all must think I am joking when I say that all of the hydrogen stored in the given amount of water can go critical simultaneously . Where all hydrogen atoms collapse to protons and this will result in a massive energy expulsion . This could wipe out you, your home ,lab .....


IronHead
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 06:39:55 PM
But the flame doesnt look like HHO flame at all. It's much slower than HHO and organge while HHO burns almost transparent.

The orange yellow flame is fromthe Na+ ions inside the salt water...
Maybe also some Chlorine is being produced which burns off ?

Would be interesting to see how the exhaust fumes smell ...

Anyway, if this thing could be made more efficient than electrolysis
at the same electrical power input, then it would be good.

Otherwise if he could not scale it up, so he would only need
a few Watts for this flame he now generates, it would never
be overunity I guess...

Maybe standing waves are needed or some kind of near-field
antenna effect is playing a role over here...
Maybe these are just longitudinal waves ala Tesla
that come from his nearby antenna...that have the power
to split the water when NaCL salt is disolved inside the water ..

Maybe the Na+ or Cl- ions bump into the Hydrogen
H+ or H3O ions and give them enough kicks to be converted
to pure H2 gas ?
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on May 28, 2007, 06:52:33 PM
the salt is a resonance trap
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: joe dirt on May 28, 2007, 06:56:31 PM
Instead of a shock-gun there will be in future a new kind of weapon:
RF-based,
"Inside BURNING MENS"

S
  dL

I agree, this knowledge will be weaponized, watch the new movie called
  "war of the worlds" for a visual on how this will work...

Perhaps this is the catalyst behind spontaneous human combustion ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion

Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: DrWhat on May 29, 2007, 12:20:43 AM
It looks exciting. Important to know how much energy is being put in. I think he may be inputting a lot of energy to get a smaller output. But still, something new.

You should also have a look at "sonofusion".
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: d3adp00l on May 29, 2007, 02:37:00 AM
well isn't this interesting. Ironhead If you can so well predict what it is he is doing, what is your experience with rf Hydrogen production, how well does it work. Does it only work with nacl/h2o or will koh/h20 work also, what is the hz for each obliviously they should be different. The sad thing and this whole setup is it will be gone in a month or so, just watch, this old guy is just gonna pocket some cash and let it go, and he will pass on fairly soon after.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on May 29, 2007, 03:10:17 AM
Yeah , you know ,your right . I should not be concerned with others.
So if that is the case ,why should I talk about any of this at all. Just a waste of time in the long run .. eh.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: HeairBear on May 29, 2007, 04:34:58 AM
Spontaneous Human Combustion! That would fit. Now I wonder if all the victims affected by this phenomena are close to any RF's?
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Dingus Mungus on May 31, 2007, 03:48:05 AM
According to one of the engineers in the videos the flame reaches temperatures of 1500 degrees celsius. I don't have enough information to really confirm that this is overunity, but if that number is accurate I wouldn't be suprised if it had a very high CoP.

Someone needs to use the flame to heat a pound of water. At that point we can convert the energy to BTU's and use that to conclusively determine an accurate CoP rating. Something tells me that this device is able to produce several thousand BTU's, but it will only heat some material efficently like most browns gas generators... A flame that barely heats the flesh, but it can cut through tungsten and iron like butter.

Is anyone going to attempt replication? Iron head?
You seem to know the most about this subject and the safty required thus far...
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 01, 2007, 04:17:13 PM
Yes this is and has been an ongoing project.

Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Grumpy on June 01, 2007, 04:55:30 PM
Bitchin' red coil, Dude!
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: keithturtle on June 05, 2007, 04:04:05 AM
that cell for the four cyl might be just the ticket fer that forklift I drive around inside buildings and choke on the gas fumes.  It's a dinosaur with points and a carb... easier to convert than a newer one?

Keith
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 05, 2007, 11:03:09 PM
If I get it to work without blowing up ever time then you can be the Marketer. I am sure all the forklift operators of the world will love it :)
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Grumpy on June 06, 2007, 12:28:07 AM
hmm - you been wearing those sunglasses (upper right of picture) at night?
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 06, 2007, 04:19:16 AM
If the thing explodes again at least my eyes wont get burned out.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 07, 2007, 03:28:32 AM
Can I reproduce these effects with a standard microwave magneto?
Or does the broadcast coil have to be 'resonant' to the frequency?
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Mad_Scientist on June 07, 2007, 08:10:27 PM
Spontaneous Human Combustion! That would fit. Now I wonder if all the victims affected by this phenomena are close to any RF's?

It is my understanding that Spontaneous Human Combustion is caused by the "Wick Effect". For example, if you roll a pig in a blanket and light one end of the blanket so it smolders, it can burn the pig right up.

 ;D
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 08, 2007, 01:16:51 AM
Can I reproduce these effects with a standard microwave magneto?
Or does the broadcast coil have to be 'resonant' to the frequency?

NO , not that I know of . These freqs are far from 2.4 range .
You would need to build a multichannel transducer to sweep the freqs in question.

Anyone trying this  you must also use a receiver to kill the broadcast  , you do not want to be broadcasting unlicensed  Radio signals. This will for sure bring the FCC down on you. Nor do you want to interrupt other radio waves , this is why the FCC would investigate you.

Ok I have high jacked this thread long enough
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: jox on June 14, 2007, 10:02:02 PM
This is a post through Sterling D Allen to the kanzius_effect group

Hi Graham,
 
We address your question in the opening  of our coverage at
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:John_Kanzius_Produces_Hydrogen_from_Salt_Water_Using_Radio_Waves
 
"While the phenomenon is interesting, it is not yet practical for energy generation. More energy is consumed by the radio frequency device than is produced for burning. Efficiency-wise, they are presently at around 76 percent of Faraday's theoretical limit."
 
Then under "Latest Developments"
 
June 06, 2007
John Kanzius write:

"Since it appears we now have now achieved more than unity, I am going to do an embargo on releasing all further information.

"Actually there are smart individuals who have posted on different web sited and actually have a pretty good idea of what is happening."

 
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 14, 2007, 10:35:12 PM
For  John Kanzius
Install 2 stainless steel rod type electrodes inside of the tube  . Add  low  current about .01 amp DC at 20 volts to 30 volts to the  rods. The rods should be .15" apart This will induce a magnetic field in the tub.  Now you can cut back the power to the linear amplifier.Experiment with the numbers  you will see the outcome quickly.
Also your resonance will change some with these rods in place  . you will have to twist the knob abit.
And put that thing in a bomb box! Just in case the good the bad and the ugly happen .

EDITED        this is an easier and safer way.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: dlwammo on June 15, 2007, 12:54:44 AM
New to site.  Been reading for last several days trying to absorb.
I know 13.56 MHz is for RFID use.  Patent mentions 13.56 MHz and 27.12 Mhz harmonic of this.

I'll keep on watchin'...
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: jox on June 16, 2007, 12:10:27 PM
Hi Ironhead Your method appears similar to whats described in this patent
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6217712.html

at the bottom in test example he quotes the frequency as 9.29Mhz magnetic resonance frequency of platinum at 1.05 watts that seems within the do able area of an experimenter. Is this still as dangerous?
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 16, 2007, 05:23:50 PM
I believe it is ,but I do not know for sure . I  am in the 12 to 15ghz  and also 40 to 50ghz area now .
These frequencies all depend on the  water type and the apprentice itself. I have just  stated with a new type of chamber using Quartz instead of Pyrex . I have had no reactions lately as I am abit impaired at the moment. I hope to get back into this thing full throttle within the  next month.

I would treat all HF  RF Hydrogen experiments the same as you just do not know what is going to happen and it can happen in the blink of an eye.There  is very little gradient in these reactions ,next to none.

It is my belief  that a bomb box is required  for any and all experiments on this level .
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: dlwammo on June 16, 2007, 06:20:19 PM
jox
Have you tried using http://www.pat2pdf.org (http://www.pat2pdf.org) to look at patents online?
I'm new here, so I'm not sure if anyone else is using it.  It sure beats reading all of the "teasers" from www.freepatentsonline.com -  Just enter the patent number and it will spit out a pdf of the patent for you.

Also, great job IH!  Keep doin' what you're doin'....  I can't replicate anything here on this end, but that doesn't mean I can't learn anything either.  I will try not to post unless I just can't help myself. 

Thanks.  This a great board guys!
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: keithturtle on June 19, 2007, 08:30:40 AM
IronHead;
In yer suggestion to Kanzius, you mentioned a pair of rods 0.15" apart.  Are these concentric tubes, the outer one with an I D  0.300" larger than the inner's O D?

If parallel, are diameters the same?  Round, square? 

Thanks,

Turtle
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: IronHead on June 19, 2007, 09:39:04 PM
no ,two solid rods next to each other. A cylinder is much more tricky and must be cut to resonate in a particular range as the RF will absorb into the tube . This would require inner and outer transducer  more like what I am doing. A different game all together but still based in RF.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: kukulcangod on June 20, 2007, 12:07:15 PM
Once I got lazy and heat up a cup of water in the  micro for a couple of minutes or less but what surprised me was that as soon as I put the stainless steel spoon in the liquid this started to boil up! no sugar no tea , just water and steel..... is this related to what Kanzius got? , Now for sure the setting has to be very precise because this doesn't hapen everytime or ever since  I just calculated by feeling when the water was ready
 it always puzzled me this result but let it in the back of my mind of course......

Where can I learn more about high frequencies and harmonics with not to technical terms?

Thanks for the feedback.

Good luck to all.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: d3adp00l on June 21, 2007, 09:04:44 AM
no, phase changing and molecular breakdown are very different things. what you did is similar to the freesing corna beers on youtube, or the explosion of steam i get from my coffe cup every morning when I put really hot water in it and shake it.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Moab on June 21, 2007, 02:40:39 PM
Once I got lazy and heat up a cup of water in the  micro for a couple of minutes or less but what surprised me was that as soon as I put the stainless steel spoon in the liquid this started to boil up! no sugar no tea , just water and steel..... is this related to what Kanzius got? , Now for sure the setting has to be very precise because this doesn't hapen everytime or ever since  I just calculated by feeling when the water was ready
 it always puzzled me this result but let it in the back of my mind of course......

Where can I learn more about high frequencies and harmonics with not to technical terms?

Thanks for the feedback.

Good luck to all.


The guys in the TPU-ECD thread are getting into Ferq and harmonics. Moab
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Paul-R on June 21, 2007, 03:59:56 PM
Once I got lazy and heat up a cup of water in the  micro for a couple of minutes or less but what surprised me was that as soon as I put the stainless steel spoon in the liquid this started to boil up!
Good luck to all.

The guys in the TPU-ECD thread are getting into Ferq and harmonics. Moab

This is because of the effect of microwaves on metal. If you go to J-L Naudin's
site, you will learn how to make ball lightning with your spoon:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/index.htm
Paul.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 22, 2007, 12:58:36 AM
Once I got lazy and heat up a cup of water in the  micro for a couple of minutes or less but what surprised me was that as soon as I put the stainless steel spoon in the liquid this started to boil up!
Good luck to all.

The guys in the TPU-ECD thread are getting into Ferq and harmonics. Moab

This is because of the effect of microwaves on metal. If you go to J-L Naudin's
site, you will learn how to make ball lightning with your spoon:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/gmr/index.htm
Paul.

No its not... Its surface tension. The water is at an adiquate temperature to begin boiling, but the surfrace tension creates just enough pressure to raise the boiling point of the fluid. Once you break the surface tension the liquid explodes with heat and begins to boil very quickly. Its a pretty easy experiment to replicate, and I promise it requires no metals.

~Dingus Mungus
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: giantkiller on June 27, 2007, 08:39:42 PM
Better yet...
Take an 8oz glass tumbler, fill it 50/50 with ammonia and bleach. Drop a steel spoon in it and put it in the microwave for 2 mins. This will give you enuff time to get away.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Dingus Mungus on June 27, 2007, 11:29:36 PM
Thats sounds like a bad idea...

What if you just overheat a plastic cup filled with water and throw a plastic fork in when its done.
I promise the water will "explode" once you break the surface tension.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: darchorse on July 10, 2007, 10:56:23 AM
a good idea for a piston engine would be to inject the saltwater into a precombustion chamber and then hit it with the RF releasing the hydrogen and then igniting it in the combustion chamber. no hydrogen storage so no chance of nuking yourself. i can imagine a rf generator inside the cylinder head etc etc. does anyone here have a clue about rf generators?
Title: Hello all (including IH)
Post by: lincolninked on July 12, 2007, 08:18:01 AM
As I read the text above including the advice to install a bomb vault (that alone will make the feds nervous) I can't help but think of the huge hydrogen cell just posted on youtube held in the passenger seat with pull ties and the seat belt.  O my goodness!

Yes, safety is a great thing.  Everyone be careful (did I leave something going in the lab hours ago?)
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on July 31, 2007, 03:03:42 AM
User Apollo69 just wrote this to me:

Hello,

Exciting news maybe about John Kanzius and his 'salt water' device. I do not know where to post this, can you find a suitable place on the forum ?
Please let me know. I have been following the news about Kanzius for a while.

Regards,

Fred

http://www.erieblogs.com/archives/2007/07/

Inventor John Kanzius will share the latest updates on his groundbreaking cancer research project to area business and community leaders, during the Manufacturers' Association's monthly Eggs 'n' Issues briefing, Tuesday, July 31, at the Manufacturers' Association of Northwest Pennsylvania Conference Center, 2171 West 38th Street at 8 am. To register for this briefing, contact Tracy Shepard at 814/833-3200, 800/815-2660 or click here to register on the Association's web site. Cost is $30 for members, $60 for non-members.
Based in Erie, Kanzius, a former broadcast executive and engineer, invented a radio wave technology that shows great promise for a non-invasive treatment and cure for cancer. "There have been a lot of exciting developments with the project and this briefing will give the business community a better understanding of the progress that has been made." said Ralph Pontillo, Manufacturers' Association president. "This research has the potential to dramatically grow the Erie economy." The Kanzius Non-invasive Radio Wave Treatment is a potential cancer therapy that uses high-energy radio waves to destroy cancer cells that have been "tagged" with nano particles. Nano particles attached to cancer cells are heated by radio waves to a temperature, which destroys the cancer cells. The technique is non-invasive, and can be provided without the need for auxiliary chemotherapy or radiation. Intensive and promising technological research about the Kanzius Radio wave Treatment is currently under way at M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, the Mayo Clinic and other American medical centers.
The Manufacturers' Association is partnering with the Erie-Western Pennsylvania Port Authority to present the Roar on the Shore motorcycle rally, August 10-11, to raise funds for Community United for a Cancer Cure, the Erie-based group, working to help fund the Kanzius research. For more information on the event visit www.roarontheshore.com.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: jaminunit on August 10, 2007, 03:51:21 AM
nice one, will look into this more.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: vondesastre on August 15, 2007, 04:39:58 AM
one damn thing to remember when burning salt water >>> is that at the same time you re burning water you are buring salt >>>>>>>  am i mistaking in saying salt = sodium chloride >>>> am i mistaking saying burning chlorine and/or its compounds in atmospheric air at extrem temperatures will also make  :-[nitrogen/chloried+other other elements >>>am no chemistry research phd but>>>am i mistaking in concluding that those are leathal :-X compouds for man kind>>>


never the less nice discovery though :-\
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: vondesastre on August 17, 2007, 07:16:40 PM
hey guys  sorry to barge in

after numerous calculations and synthesys>>> i think i found us a way to get real free energy

>> stay tuned

i will be needing as much feedback as possible from you

lets do it together

i guess that this is the purpose of this forum anyway

i stand on grounds that >>  many of our predecessors have opened ways but they all got stuck in their single lined research thus were unable to see the bigger picture

please feel free to join in

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3029.new.html#new

any contextual input will be welcomed

thanks in advance
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: JamesThomas on August 27, 2007, 12:58:56 AM
The following was posted on Free Energy News, today:

John Kanzius to be on CBS - John Kanzius, who came up with a way to burn salt water using radio frequencies (RF), will be featured tomorrow morning on CBS's Morning Show at around 7:40 EDT concerning the cancer applications of his RF technology.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: abba on August 29, 2007, 01:34:01 AM
Here's an article on some researchers at Purdue using aluminum (plus gallium) as a catalyst to separate hydrogen from oxygen in water. It might be that the RF (& its harmonic) for aluminum is more efficient than platinum. See below.
(for further info see
http://nick2.wordpress.com/2007/06/01/saltwater-into-fire/)


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1887852/posts

Hydrogen-generating Technology Closer Than Ever
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070827174310.htm ^ | 8/27/07

Posted on 08/28/2007 11:50:05 AM PDT by BlueSky194

Researchers at Purdue University have further developed a technology that could represent a pollution-free energy source for a range of potential applications, from golf carts to submarines and cars to emergency portable generators.

Purdue researchers demonstrate their method for producing hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium. The hydrogen could then be used to run an internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. The reaction was discovered by Jerry Woodall, center, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering. Charles Allen, holding test tube, and Jeffrey Ziebarth, both doctoral students in the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering, are working with Woodall to perfect the process.

The technology produces hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium. When water is added to the alloy, the aluminum splits water by attracting oxygen, liberating hydrogen in the process. The Purdue researchers are developing a method to create particles of the alloy that could be placed in a tank to react with water and produce hydrogen on demand.

The gallium is a critical component because it hinders the formation of an aluminum oxide skin normally created on aluminum's surface after bonding with oxygen, a process called oxidation. This skin usually acts as a barrier and prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum. Reducing the skin's protective properties allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used to generate hydrogen, said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.

Since the technology was first announced in May, researchers have developed an improved form of the alloy that contains a higher concentration of aluminum.

Recent findings are detailed in the first research paper about the work, which will be presented on Sept. 7 during the 2nd Energy Nanotechnology International Conference in Santa Clara, Calif. The paper was written by Woodall, Charles Allen and Jeffrey Ziebarth, both doctoral students in Purdue's School of Electrical and Computer Engineering.

Because the technology could be used to generate hydrogen on demand, the method makes it unnecessary to store or transport hydrogen - two major obstacles in creating a hydrogen economy, Woodall said.

The gallium component is inert, which means it can be recovered and reused.

"This is especially important because of the currently much higher cost of gallium compared with aluminum," Woodall said. "Because gallium can be recovered, this makes the process economically viable and more attractive for large-scale use. Also, since the gallium can be of low purity, the cost of impure gallium is ultimately expected to be many times lower than the high-purity gallium used in the electronics industry."

As the alloy reacts with water, the aluminum turns into aluminum oxide, also called alumina, which can be recycled back into aluminum. The recycled aluminum would be less expensive than mining the metal, making the technology more competitive with other forms of energy production, Woodall said.

In recent research, the engineers rapidly cooled the molten alloy to make particles that were 28 percent aluminum by weight and 72 percent gallium by weight. The result was a "metastable solid alloy" that also readily reacted with water to form hydrogen, alumina and heat, Woodall said.

Following up on that work, the researchers discovered that slowly cooling the molten alloy produced particles that contain 80 percent aluminum and 20 percent gallium.

"Particles made with this 80-20 alloy have good stability in dry air and react rapidly with water to form hydrogen," Woodall said. "This alloy is under intense investigation, and, in our opinion, it can be developed into a commercially viable material for splitting water."

The technology has numerous potential applications. Because the method makes it possible to use hydrogen instead of gasoline to run internal combustion engines, it could be used for cars and trucks. Combusting hydrogen in an engine or using hydrogen to drive a fuel cell produces only water as waste.

"It's a simple matter to convert ordinary internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen. All you have to do is replace the gasoline fuel injector with a hydrogen injector," Woodall said.

The U.S. Department of Energy has set a goal of developing alternative fuels that possess a "hydrogen mass density" of 6 percent by the year 2010 and 9 percent by 2015. The percent mass density of hydrogen is the mass of hydrogen contained in the fuel divided by the total mass of the fuel multiplied by 100. Assuming 50 percent of the water produced as waste is recovered and cycled back into the reaction, the new 80-20 alloy has a hydrogen mass density greater than 6 percent, which meets the DOE's 2010 goal.

Aluminum is refined from the raw mineral bauxite, which also contains gallium. Producing aluminum from bauxite results in waste gallium.

"This technology is feasible for commercial use," Woodall said. "The waste alumina can be recycled back into aluminum, and low-cost gallium is available as a waste product from companies that produce aluminum from the raw mineral bauxite. Enough aluminum exists in the United States to produce 100 trillion kilowatt hours of energy. That's enough energy to meet all the U.S. electric needs for 35 years. If impure gallium can be made for less than $10 a pound and used in an onboard system, there are enough known gallium reserves to run 1 billion cars."

The researchers note in the paper that for the technology to be used to operate cars and trucks, a large-scale recycling program would be required to turn the alumina back into aluminum and to recover the gallium.

"In the meantime, there are other promising potential markets, including lawn mowers and personal motor vehicles such as golf carts and wheelchairs," Woodall said. "The golf cart of the future, three or four years from now, will have an aluminum-gallium alloy. You will add water to generate hydrogen either for an internal combustion engine or to operate a fuel cell that recharges a battery. The battery will then power an electric motor to drive the golf cart."

Another application that is rapidly being developed is for emergency portable generators that will use hydrogen to run a small internal combustion engine. The generators are likely to be on the market within a year, Woodall said.

The technology also could make it possible to introduce a non-polluting way to idle diesel trucks. Truck drivers idle their engines to keep power flowing to appliances and the heating and air conditioning systems while they are making deliveries or parked, but such idling causes air pollution, which has prompted several states to restrict the practice.

The new hydrogen technology could solve the truck-idling dilemma.

"What we are proposing is that the truck would run on either hydrogen or diesel fuel," Woodall said. "While you are on the road you are using the diesel, but while the truck is idling, it's running on hydrogen."

The new hydrogen technology also would be well-suited for submarines because it does not emit toxic fumes and could be used in confined spaces without harming crew members, Woodall said.

"You could replace nuclear submarines with this technology," he said.

Other types of boats, including pleasure craft, also could be equipped with such a technology.

"One reason maritime applications are especially appealing is that you don't have to haul water," Woodall said.

The Purdue researchers had thought that making the process competitive with conventional energy sources would require that the alumina be recycled back into aluminum using a dedicated infrastructure, such as a nuclear power plant or wind generators. However, the researchers now know that recycling the alumina would cost far less than they originally estimated, using standard processing already available.

"Since standard industrial technology could be used to recycle our nearly pure alumina back to aluminum at 20 cents per pound, this technology would be competitive with gasoline," Woodall said. "Using aluminum, it would cost $70 at wholesale prices to take a 350-mile trip with a mid-size car equipped with a standard internal combustion engine. That compares with $66 for gasoline at $3.30 per gallon. If we used a 50 percent efficient fuel cell, taking the same trip using aluminum would cost $28."

The Purdue Research Foundation holds title to the primary patent, which has been filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and is pending. An Indiana startup company, AlGalCo LLC., has received a license for the exclusive right to commercialize the process.

In 1967, while working as a researcher at IBM, Woodall discovered that liquid alloys of aluminum and gallium spontaneously produce hydrogen if mixed with water. The research, which focused on developing new semiconductors for computers and electronics, led to advances in optical-fiber communications and light-emitting diodes, making them practical for everything from DVD players to television remote controls and new types of lighting displays. That work also led to development of advanced transistors for cell phones and components in solar cells powering space modules like those used on the Mars rover, earning Woodall the 2001 National Medal of Technology from President George W. Bush.

Also while at IBM, Woodall and research engineer Jerome Cuomo were issued a U.S. patent in 1982 for a "solid state, renewable energy supply." The patent described their discovery that when aluminum is dissolved in liquid gallium just above room temperature, the liquid alloy readily reacts with water to form hydrogen, alumina and heat.

Future research will include work to further perfect the solid alloy and develop systems for the controlled delivery of hydrogen.

The 2nd Energy Nanotechnology International Conference is sponsored by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers and ASME Nanotechnology Institute.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: leeroyjenkinsii on September 04, 2007, 06:23:17 AM
I'll give you a cool simple little experiment to try along these lines.  Take a 20 oz bottle cap and fill it 3/4 full of water.  Then put a teaspoon of salt in it.  Put it in the microwave for 1 minute and small sparks and flames will shoot form the bottlecap.  You may have to play with the amounts of salt and water.  I have done this many times so I can tell you from my experience it is safe.  Try it and post your results here.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: twohawks on November 15, 2007, 09:29:20 PM
I would think if can be done with salt  then it should be able to be done with the element of choice?

I read somewhere that... "the 13.56-MHz radio frequency is a harmonic of the natural frequency of sodium ion..." ( I wonder where I can get that info for all the table elements?)  ...", the waves are causing these positive ions to vibrate intensely. Van der Waal's effects attract the oxygen end of water molecules to the positive sodium ions, and the vibration shakes the oxygen molecules hard enough to break the hydrogen bonds, freeing the hydrogen gas, which then ignites and burns."

So now I am thinking (like darchorse)... already have combustion chamber... can you say "RF Plug" instead of "Spark Plug"...  just add water and ??

Anyone here experimenting?

Also, based on the above information, I wonder if only the treated water was exposed to the RF, without an air cavity or exposure of the released gas to the RF (so it doesn't auto-burn, as shown in the videos), could there be generated gas (HHO) for collecting ...and then injecting to an engine on the fly?  Or does it necessarily burn (like in its enclosure - this did not appear to be the case)?

Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 15, 2007, 09:38:41 PM
G'day all,

vondesastre is right. Electrolysis of Saltwater is not a good idea since it liberates chlorine gas, which is lethal. It is a better idea to use Epsom salt as an electrolyte or caustic soda.

Every book I have ever read on the electrolysis of water warns about this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Evil Roy Slade on November 15, 2007, 10:58:58 PM
I hate to rain on this parade...but...

Firstly,
In Mr Kanzius's own words (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius)
'Kanzius admits that this stage of development of his method, the process could not be considered an energy source, as more energy is used to produce the RF signal than can be obtained from the burning gas, and stated in July, 2007 that he never claimed his discovery would replace oil, asserting only that his discovery was "thought provoking''

Secondly,
The First Law of Thermodynamics is a stubborn little thing and whether we like it or not is here to stay.

ERS
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 15, 2007, 11:33:38 PM
Tell that to Resin Rat 2 Evil Roy Slade

He seems to be making a fair fist of it.

It is not a question of thermodynamics, it is a question of efficiently liberating the energy inherent in water. Only because standard electrolysis is inefficient this does not mean  that it cannot be done this way or some other way. Even main stream science agrees with this and is engaged in a lot of research in this area.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Evil Roy Slade on November 15, 2007, 11:50:42 PM
@Hans,

I am all for research to improve the efficiency of any system. My point is that efficiency of %100 is the absolute maximum. Trying to design beyond this indisputable maximum is senseless and just takes inventive resources away from what should be the real task of getting as close to %100 as possible. 

Sorry but I am not aware of Resin Rat. Can you point me to the source and I will check it out.

ERS
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 16, 2007, 12:22:54 AM
G'day Roy,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,518.870/topicseen.html

it is a large thread 59 pages in all, you need to read the lot :-(

Hans
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 16, 2007, 12:29:57 AM
I am all for research to improve the efficiency of any system. My point is that efficiency of %100 is the absolute maximum.

Yes, we are trying to figure out what exactly the maximum is.

We will just shift goalposts and move the armchairs when we have to.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: hartiberlin on March 14, 2008, 04:36:07 PM
I have uploaded the latest report from Kanzius as a PDF file over here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get16

It is very scientific and summaries all the effects pretty neat !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: Super God on March 15, 2008, 12:09:55 AM
So if we get a giant tank of water and submit it to an elctromagnetic field of 13 Mhz we can pipe that to our engine and run it?  Wow!  That is awesome!  Of course, there might be more to it, but man!!!  =D
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: PulsedPower on March 15, 2008, 09:27:51 AM
Quote
It is my understanding that Spontaneous Human Combustion is caused by the "Wick Effect". For example, if you roll a pig in a blanket and light one end of the blanket so it smolders, it can burn the pig right up.

Lovely it brings back memories of when I used to burn unwanted byproducts of hunting expeditions, the carcases used to smoulder for days with a thin stream of smoke which smelled like burnt hair and fat mixed, I dont know how they would ever get the smell out of a room where this ("spontaneous" combustion) occurred.

As for splitting salt water with RF, it should be possible with tap water, set up a series resonant circuit with a pointed electrode on the HV end and use a glass tube surrounding the electrode to feed steam around it. This was published in an RF experimenters book over 30 years ago AFAIR they used 70Mhz  to split N2 into N + N which then recombined producing a nice hot flame the unit in the book was 70W output, I was going to build a 3Kw version but other things took my attention.

If using salt water HCl will be present as will Na0H, while they may react to form NaCl the reaction zone has to be  designed to ensure this,  Hot Na0H and HCl are very corrosive, stainless will be rapidly corroded, Nickel should be better.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: sparks on March 16, 2008, 04:59:46 AM
    I would think there would be a number of dissolved solids that would form ions that could be excited by the rf.  I was also thinking about piezo electric crystals in microsuspensions being excited by sound freqs.  Overunity or not man needs a better energy storage system then big tanks full of liquid fossil fuels.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: christo4_99 on May 18, 2008, 02:15:55 AM
correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it a mistake for people to give an opinion about efficency of this phenomena based on the machines production wth just a few ounces of water in a test tube?to me it's a question of the maximum output in a given scenario with as much water as it can react with.
Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: majkl on February 24, 2009, 01:03:56 PM
Man searching for cancer cure dies
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29266818/
 :(

Title: Re: John Kanzius: saltwater can burn!
Post by: jibbguy on February 25, 2009, 02:48:49 AM
Thx for the link, majkl

Was very sad to see it, though.

RIP John Kansius .

He will be deeply missed and we honor his life and work!