Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83955
  • *Latest: serials

  • *Total Posts: 525631
  • *Total Topics: 15646
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 0
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 10

Author Topic: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..  (Read 203875 times)

Offline dingbat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2007, 02:04:50 PM »
Quote
It's nice to have more solutions instead of just the points, which would work fine, but maybe
not as accurate as your encoder. I don't hope the encoder is more expensive than the points.
So far Jack and I have been working to let the points trigger the control signals to my controller.
This is an easy way for Jack, no motor modifications and it's easy for him to hook up the controller himself.

The encoder is probably higher cost than the points, but I am not seeking compensation for anything I am doing. (I don't think you are either.)  The advantage of using the encoder for development is the ability to adjust the phase and pulsewidth while the motor is running, and to know exactly (to 1 part in 4000) what the timing is.  I foresee that it may be necessary to change the timing based upon load and speed of the motor while it is in operation, similar to an automobile engine.  We could do this easily with this approach.  With mechanical points it is possible, but not practical.

Quote
You must know that your cannot feed anything else to the controller except clean stable
signals for each valve. Your outputs must be an open collector circuit with no pullups.
Meaning that when one rotor is in start position you just need to pull down on the
output and when the rotor have moved to it's end position just release the pull down.
There must be no dips or other interuptions from your encoder while the rotor is in pull position.
Just one clean and stable pull down signal while the rotor is in pull mode.

our current output chip is an automotive IC that is used to operate things on vehicles by switching to ground.  The capacity is 200 ma and the normal operating voltage is pulling 12v circuits to ground.  Is your logic voltage greater than 12v?  I will check the maximum allowable voltage of our output driver.  A switched signal from a microcontroller will surely be as clean or cleaner than a signal generated by mechanical points.

P.S.
If Jack would like to do it with points, it is entirely up to him.  Also, this is not necessarily intended as the "production" solution.  It is just a good way to have tight control on the firing, and dynamic adjustment if it proves necessary.

Either way, I will complete the system, because there are many configurations discussed in magnet and pulse motors that would benefit from this type of controller.  When it is finished, I will post information on it.

db

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Gregory

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2007, 03:10:58 PM »
Hi Honk & Dingbat,

Great work on the controllers!
I hope the motor finally will pass the test!

I am a true beginner in electronics, but I had an idea for a controller some time back.
Isn't it possible to use digital hall effect switches or latches to control the operation of the valves?

It can be switched on and off as needed, and as a dabbler I would think that this method requires the least amount of energy to switch the valves on/off dependent on the rotor position only... So, whether loaded, and whatever speed it runs, it will do just the same, and with a speed change, the pulse width also changes correspondingly, i.e. the valves turned on / off for less time on greater speeds.

I know this idea involves complex driving electronics, but maybe the real problem is that I am a beginner in the subject. :) I don't know about the accuracy and problems of such controls.

Anyway, Wish you the best with this project.
You have already done a great work.

Offline dingbat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2007, 03:37:54 PM »
Quote
Isn't it possible to use digital hall effect switches or latches to control the operation of the valves?

Yes, that is another alternative.  The advantages to an encoder is knowing at all times the position of the rotor, and being able to easily change the timing on the fly.  No need for mechanical adjustments or rotating collars, etc.

Quote
It can be switched on and off as needed, and as a dabbler I would think that this method requires the least amount of energy to switch the valves on/off dependent on the rotor position only... So, whether loaded, and whatever speed it runs, it will do just the same, and with a speed change, the pulse width also changes correspondingly, i.e. the valves turned on / off for less time on greater speeds.

Initially I think having precise control is more important than the few watts required for the trigger.  The motor is supposed to be at least several horsepower, so if the control circuit consumes several watts it shouldn't be a significant factor.  Once the timing is developed, the circuit can be replaced with another lower power method, if available.  No switching circuit is devoid of power consumption.  Even points consume mechanical power.  Halls consume some power as well.

I don't think some of the questions about speed and load can be easily answered without testing.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2007, 03:37:54 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2007, 10:18:24 PM »
The encoder is probably higher cost than the points, but I am not seeking compensation for anything I am doing.
I meant the price of the encoder and control board at mass production.  ;)

our current output chip is an automotive IC that is used to operate things on vehicles by switching to ground.  The capacity is 200 ma and the normal operating voltage is pulling 12v circuits to ground.  Is your logic voltage greater than 12v?  I will check the maximum allowable voltage of our output driver.  A switched signal from a microcontroller will surely be as clean or cleaner than a signal generated by mechanical points.

Great. This is what I want.
I'm using 15V logic and a RC net at the controller input to filter out the glitches caused by the mechanical points.
So, your outputs must be able to pull down 15V 4.5mA. If not you can add extra pull down transistors.

Either way, I will complete the system, because there are many configurations discussed in magnet and pulse motors that would benefit from this type of controller.  When it is finished, I will post information on it.
db

Sounds fine to me. Once Jack has released his motor I will also release the Flux Booster Controller.
As you said it, the many high inductance magnet and pulse motors could benefit a lot from my controller as well.

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2007, 10:37:33 PM »
Initially I think having precise control is more important than the few watts required for the trigger.  The motor is supposed to be at least several horsepower, so if the control circuit consumes several watts it shouldn't be a significant factor.  Once the timing is developed, the circuit can be replaced with another lower power method, if available.  No switching circuit is devoid of power consumption.  Even points consume mechanical power.  Halls consume some power as well.

I was just reading this message and I realised that we have to feed your CPU encoder board with voltage
comming from the generator when making the self runner.
My controller is designed and ready for self running mode but there is no supply output for any CPU board.
If you have a 110V converter to feed the CPU board from the generator voltage this will solve the problem.
Else way we have to use the points in self running mode. I know Jack will prepare his motors for the points
when building his motor. So this is not a hindrance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2007, 10:37:33 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline JackH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2007, 09:20:39 PM »


Later,,,,,JackH
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 10:13:09 PM by JackH »

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2007, 09:33:53 PM »
OK, let us use the points. No other solution is needed to get the motor up running.
All you have to do is to connect the points to the controller input and the valves to the output.
There you go....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2007, 09:33:53 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline dingbat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2007, 10:51:30 PM »
Quote
Honk & dingbat,

Seems like this thing is getting very complicated again.   I think Gregory has a good point.   The turn on of the coils does not need to be complicated, the points will do the trick.    If we need to go to something other than that, I think it should be either electric eyes or hall effect switches.     Something that I understand and can work with.    dingbat just does not seem to have time to come down to my shop to work with this kind of stuff, so I need it simple.

Later,,,,,JackH


Sorry.  Just forget about the encoder idea and proceed with what you understand.  That will be the best solution for you.

Offline shruggedatlas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2007, 06:13:58 AM »
The suspense is killing me.  Does the motor work?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2007, 06:13:58 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2007, 08:33:54 AM »
The suspense is killing me.  Does the motor work?

Status Report:

Jack's motor is working just fine, like his other motors.
An earlier 2 valve motor from Jack has proven 200W out while consuming 130W, according to Jack.
His new 3 valve motors will work even better and their design is also improved to increase the performance.

Right now I have to test the controller on a real valve to make sure it will perform it's best on Jack motor.
I have been trying to convert some old transformers into a valve but it was not successful.
The machine shop I used at my work was not accurate enough to handle the fine tolerances needed.

Now I will try to buy some Non Oriented Silicon Steel and ship it to a friend of mine which will cut the
steel laminates into the desired shape by laser. By this way I will get myself 3 pcs of acccurate valves.
In these valves I will use either N52 rectangle or N42 cubes of neo magnets.
I hope these last readings really turns out good, before shipping the controller to Jack.
In worst case I'll have to ship the controller without having it tested on a real magnet valve situation.

/Honk

Offline JackH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2007, 12:16:31 AM »


Later,,,,,JackH
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 03:00:31 AM by JackH »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2007, 12:16:31 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Honk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2007, 09:21:03 AM »
I have already seen pictures on Jack's new motor but I'm equally impressed every time I see it.
It's such a beaut.....

Anyway, I baught 38lb of Non Oriented Silicon steel yesterday. It cost me $116.
Today it will be shipped to a friend of mine to be cut by laser into the desired shape.
I estimate I will recieve the the cut valve pieces sometime next week.
By then I should have received the 12pcs of N45, 40x18x10mm magnets (1.57x0.71x0.39 inch).
http://www.magnesy.eu/mpl-40-x-18-x-10-n45-magnes-neodymowy-p-113.html
This polish magnet supplier have pretty good prices on magnets here in europe.
I will use 4 of those magnets stacked in the valve to a 40x18x40mm magnet (1.57x0.71x1.57 inch).
The coils will be made of 470 turns of 0.8mm copper wire, 40mm long and 9mm deep. 0.8mm = AWG20
The resistance of the coil is calculated to 2.5R. The current at 12W input is 2.19Amp.
I will build three valves to simulate the three phases of the motor and then test the controller on this setup.
Before testing I will match the flux strength of the coil to match the strength of the magnet, just as Jack have told us.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2007, 01:13:18 PM by Honk »

Offline Humbugger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2007, 06:37:14 PM »
@Jack

Whether it works OU or not, sir, you have built a beautiful piece of machine art!

Good luck and please make sure the measurements are done right and the techniques, setup and equipment used are scientifically accurate and clearly reported.  Any machine that looks that robust and handsome deserves equally professional evaluation!

Humbugger

Offline JackH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2007, 03:53:04 AM »


Later,,,,,,JackH
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 03:02:08 AM by JackH »

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2007, 06:10:29 AM »
Very very nice.

Honk and Jack, when testing with those coils, be carefull not to disconnect them while they are energized. I was running an RV system off of an inverter, and while the PM was turning a full speed I wasn't thinking and simply pulled out the motor plug from the inverter. Bang, I fried the inverter. The BEMF just rushed back into the inverter and fried it. So always turn off the power before you disconnect anything. Especially if you only have one circuit. Inverters are a dime a dozen. So please protect the circuit.

Also, I am very very curious how you are handling the BEMF in your controller. Are you simply providing it a clean path to a capacitor or battery at collapse?


 

OneLink