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Author Topic: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..  (Read 203872 times)

Offline Honk

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2007, 08:25:35 AM »
Hello, Honk here.

I'm a big fan of Mr Jack W Hilden-Brand and his inventions and I'm also very happy to
be able to help him to get the most out of his great motor.
Myself I have learnt a thing or two about the electrical behavior of the motor.
I originally had an idea of how to prevent the drawbacks of having to deal with high
inductance coils, such as in the valves, and so far all my ideas have been successful
during development of the controller. I also found a way to recover the back EMF to
let it power the Flux Booster Unit. This is even more efficient than I calculated.
The flux build-up of a high inductance coil is very slow, like a saw-tooth wave at
high rpm's. My Flux Booster Unit within the controller will create an instantaneous
flux field at 0.25mS rise time. This allows high RPM:s at full torgue, meaning lot's of hp.

Yesterday I ran a series of tests on a very Valve like laminated iron core coil Iv'e got.
The coil have 75mH inductance, 2.8 ohm resistance and takes 2.3Amp for 15W power.

At Zero RPM the coil is using 15W to reach full field at 2.3A. (static mode)
At  400 RPM the coil is using 21W to reach full field at 2.3A.
At  700 RPM the coil is using 23W to reach full field at 2.3A.
At 1500 RPM the coil is using 25W to reach full field at 2.3A.
At 2000 RPM the coil is using 27W to reach full field at 2.3A.
At 2500 RPM the coil is using 29W to reach full field at 2.3A.
At 3300 RPM the coil is using 32W to reach full field at 2.3A.

This should be compared to running the coil with no boosting flux enhancement.
Then the input power is 9 to 13 times higher depending on the RPM, like 200-300W.

Imagine having such a motor installed in your average car and just some standard
24V 75Ah batteries and being able to drive at 60mph for 45 hours before recharge.

Even better. Add another small Hilden Brand motor with a generator and a very
small 24V 3Ah battery. The battery provides car start-up and the small generator
delivers running current for the big motor and recharging current for the battery.
By this setup you can drive forever until the car breaks down of old age.... :)

Best of all. Just hook up a generator to the big motor and let it recharge the starter
batteri and power the rest of the electrical systems in the car. No need for another
motor-generator setup. It should also be the most economical to produce. :D :D :D
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 09:25:48 AM by Honk »

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Offline yorkshireminer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2007, 11:16:06 AM »
Dear Jack and Honk,
Thanks for the information, this is great news. I think the pair of you are on a roll. The statistics seem very impressive, not knowing how the motor is configures it is very difficult for me to judge. I will just have to keep my curiosity in check until Jack's patent is released. I still think you have a window of approximately two years before alternative energy becomes mainstream. I say this because the price of oil is not going to come down only rise which will automatically make many of the alternative technology's economically viable, improving your technology will only narrow the gap quicker. The nice thing about the whole affair is that you don't need fancy batteries a decent sized cheap lead acid battery is more than good enough. Things like this means that you will have a cheap conversion market all that will have to be done is swap the internal combustion engine for a Hilden Brand electrical motor, which seems to have high torque at low revs which makes it ideal. As I have said before, acceptance by the public is the main stumbling block. Inventions like Jacks seem to have the aura of getting something for nothing about them,  and they are easily ridiculed by the scientific and big business establishment who have a vested interest in the status qua. They end up as being nothing more than 30 second sound bits on CNN.

STEORN an Irish firm are publicly giving a demonstration of their motor in London at the beginning of next month complete with live web casts. I seriously suggest that you check it out they seem to have got all the bases covered, and if it is successful it will go a long way in gaining public acceptance of alternative technology. Here is the link by the way.

http://www.steorn.com/

Thanks once again for the information and I will be popping in regularly to follow development. Jack as I see it, things seem to be looking good with your patent covering the bases, and a well finished functioning prototype which you are more than capable of producing, you will not be dismissed as a crank at any demonstrations you might decide to make. By the way, when it comes to distribution rights in Scandinavia and Holland think of me and Honk will you. Good luck for the future

Deep Regards

Yorkshire Miner 


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2007, 03:58:17 AM »
@yorkshireminer,

Do you know any details about the Steorn public demonstration in July? When exactly is it going to be and how can one arrange for a visit? I would like to attend but the first condition for me visitng is not to be made to sign any non-disclosure agreements and such. That's an irrevocable requirement on my side.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2007, 03:58:17 AM »
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Offline yorkshireminer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2007, 09:11:51 AM »
Dear Omnibus,
   
I don't see what the problem is, from what I gather it is going to be a public demonstration, so why would they want you to sign a NDA? What by the way is wrong in signing a NDA? I would hope that Jack here has made HONK sign a NDA. Not that I think HONK would cheat on Jack but when potentially large sums of money are involved moral scruples tend to be pushed to one side. Inventors like Jack, the little man with a good idea, tend to get screwed to put it mildly, if they have got no legal protection. They also tend to get screwed if they have. Steorn have also got legal obligations to their shareholders, they would be derelict in their duty if they didn't look after those interests.

Check out the Steorn site, most of the information is there, I don't think that they have settled on a date , but I suspect that it will be held at the same time as one of those fuzzy feel good concerts like Live Aid where the organizers make millions and the recipients get nothing. I gather there is going to be a sort of SAVE THE WORLD concert at the beginning of July in London. They will most likely hold the demonstration then to get the most out of the common publicity. More than that I don't know, keep checking out the Steorn site, they would be stupid if they did give adequate notice of the demonstration. 

Deep Regards

Yorkshire Miner

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2007, 10:37:00 AM »
@yorkshireminer,

The most important factor for social success in the engineering efforts to build a perpetuum mobile is to keep business out of it. Keeping business out of it is especially important at this stage when the mere possibility for the violation of the principle of conservation of energy is still to be recognized as a legitimate scientific fact. Not to say that, in the long run, perpetuum mobile is everything the business does not want.

False illusions by dreamers seeing themselves becoming rich by inventing self-sustaining machines has brought this area to the sorry state it is at present. The unwarranted secrecy by possible successful inventors in the past has been the most efficient killer of the opportunities that have probably existed to change the world. The large sums you are talking about are an illusion and this illusion entertained by the inventors had made it opportune for the powers that be to squash, to nip the perpetuum mobile in the bud exactly for the purposes of preserving business. Thus, although it may seem shortsightedly that it is not so, the other name of perpetuum mobile is anti-business.

The main goal now is to press the mainstream science efficiently and make it inevitable for it to recognize that conservation of energy is not an universal principle because there are conditions under which it can be violated. The possibility to violate the principle is proven beyond doubt scientifically but there still isn?t a demonstrable working practical device which would have the power to change the public opinion at large and have effect on society. Making the mainstream science accept, under the pressure from society, that violation of the energy conservation principle is possible will be a revolution in itself with unforeseen consequences in really saving the world, far more important than who has become rich from ?saving? the world with LiveAid and the like trivial business ventures.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2007, 10:37:00 AM »
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Offline yorkshireminer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2007, 02:07:44 PM »
First of all let me say that I don't think that there is such a thing as a perpetual motion machine and never have been. I think we just don't understand the principles at work and we get confused with the terminology. Let me give a few examples to explain what I mean. If I have a heat pump that is 400% efficient I put 100watts of heat equivalent energy in I get 400Watts of heat out, that seems to contradict the laws of the conservation of energy, but it doesn't, the 100 watt motor used to drive the machine will never be more than 100% efficient the extra heat at the output has been transferred from somewhere else. Science understands the principles we don't look on it as a miracle. Now let us take another example which seems to contradict the laws of the conservation of energy, and produces more heat than is put in. Please check out the first part of this video before you read further. The problem with this machine is that we don't understand the principles which causes the excess heat. That being so, it gets dismissed by the science community as over unity perpetual motion and I don't know what. Here is the link.


http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2464139837181538044&q=Equinox&total=973&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

The problem with this machine is that the so called hicks from the sticks are building the machine and selling it. IT WORKS so where does the excess energy come from. I have my own ideas but they are irrelevant to this discussion.

Let us go further, into the so called light fantastic, google Perendev  Beddini Searl Hollingsworth. Searls and Hollingsworths claims seem  especially  fantastic, but are they, might it not be that we just don't understand where the excess energy is coming from. Have they discovered a way of transferring energy from the Dirac sea, Zero point energy, or perhaps from the inertia in a body I don't know and neither do the scientist. I for one do not want to keep business out. I want it well and truly in, only with marketable systems that work, that seem to defy the conservation of energy laws will the scientific community have to come down from their ivory towers and start to think and try and understand how the thing works.

Deep Regards

Yorkshire Miner 


 

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2007, 04:25:59 PM »
@yorkshireminer,

The example with the heat pump is irrelevant. The heat pump is not a perpetuum mobile. Carry out the cycle in the reverse and the gain will be exactly compensated. The source of the seeming excess energy is well known.

On the other hand, genuine excess energy, violating the principle of conservation of energy, is produced by SMOT beyond doubt. It has already been discussed extensively here and in other places so I won?t get into details. The excess energy produced by SMOT has no source, it comes from nothing. SMOT produces excess energy discontinuously, a portion at a time after the completion of each cycle.

Unfortunately, so far no one has demonstrated continuous production of excess heat which, as I mentioned, would have the social impact we seek. Torbay, Perendev etc. motors were promising but business and other ill-conceived interests prevented them from being legitimized in society. These inventors really hurt themselves and society at large by the inadequacy of their approach. Even Finsrud whom I visited personally and who has the best example so far of a perpetuum mobile on public display is not forthcoming enough to really settle once and for all whether or not continuous production of excess energy is achieved. Hope this will not be the case with Steorn.

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2007, 04:25:59 PM »
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Offline yorkshireminer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2007, 01:26:37 AM »
Dear Omnibus
you state so in your last comment

(The example with the heat pump is irrelevant. The heat pump is not a perpetuum mobile. Carry out the cycle in the reverse and the gain will be exactly compensated. The source of the seeming excess energy is well known.)

Please tell me what you are arguing about, I know it is not a perpetuum mobile. I never said that it was, in fact I stated the opposite . Now please tell me where the extra heat/energy is coming from, in the Jim Grigg's machine in the video? The scientists don't know, and I certainly don't know. Now where in God's name is it being transferred from?

I gave the others as a more extreme form Searl's and Hollingsworth's discoveries are even more far out ,  even a science fiction writer would have difficulty believing them, but Searl's claims that his generator has an antigravity effect seem to have been verified in Russia a few years ago. Searl has now got a new team together and is replicating his old machines. I am very skeptical but the part of his new machine that they have built seems to be working the way he predicted. You can see the test on Utube, check it out.

I will state it once again I don't think that there is such a thing a perpetual motion. I just think that we don't know where the extra energy is coming from. If you get more energy out than you put in then it is over unity, not perpetual motion, the Griggs machine certainly is. The question is can we feed that extra energy back into the machine, close the loop, and get the machine to run continually. I think it might be possible, this is what Steorn is claiming. It would look like perpetual motion but it wouldn't be. We just don't know the source of the extra energy.


Deep Regards

Yorkshire Miner       

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2007, 02:09:06 AM »
Dear Omnibus
you state so in your last comment

(The example with the heat pump is irrelevant. The heat pump is not a perpetuum mobile. Carry out the cycle in the reverse and the gain will be exactly compensated. The source of the seeming excess energy is well known.)

Please tell me what you are arguing about, I know it is not a perpetuum mobile. I never said that it was, in fact I stated the opposite . Now please tell me where the extra heat/energy is coming from, in the Jim Grigg's machine in the video? The scientists don't know, and I certainly don't know. Now where in God's name is it being transferred from?

I gave the others as a more extreme form Searl's and Hollingsworth's discoveries are even more far out ,  even a science fiction writer would have difficulty believing them, but Searl's claims that his generator has an antigravity effect seem to have been verified in Russia a few years ago. Searl has now got a new team together and is replicating his old machines. I am very skeptical but the part of his new machine that they have built seems to be working the way he predicted. You can see the test on Utube, check it out.

I will state it once again I don't think that there is such a thing a perpetual motion. I just think that we don't know where the extra energy is coming from. If you get more energy out than you put in then it is over unity, not perpetual motion, the Griggs machine certainly is. The question is can we feed that extra energy back into the machine, close the loop, and get the machine to run continually. I think it might be possible, this is what Steorn is claiming. It would look like perpetual motion but it wouldn't be. We just don't know the source of the extra energy. 

I think you guys are arguing definitions and semantics...
Your heat pump is overunity in the fact that it produces a CoP > 1.
Now if that was electricity and not heat you would have a perpetual motion machine.
Thats what you are both saying, yet you both say it so differently you have to debate terms.
Simply put yes the energy is taken from somewhere, but when you are tapping something that exists everywhere at once (the aether) then its a universally open well of energy.

So again its not energy from nothing, but more a energy transference we're not yet familiar with.

~Dingus Mungus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2007, 02:09:06 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2007, 05:59:00 AM »
On the contrary, I'm arguing that SMOT produces energy from nothing. Except for electrolysis in an undivided cell, this is the only other example of a device categorically proven to produce energy from nothing and thus violating the principle of conservation of energy.

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2007, 08:31:59 AM »
On the contrary, I'm arguing that SMOT produces energy from nothing. Except for electrolysis in an undivided cell, this is the only other example of a device categorically proven to produce energy from nothing and thus violating the principle of conservation of energy.

Yes Omnibus I also agree with you...
Altho my definition of nowhere varies slightly.
Power from nowhere today will get named/studied then its power from somewhere.
Weather or not that "nowhere" well of energy will be an endless supply is unkown.

~Dingus Mungus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2007, 08:31:59 AM »
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Offline Freezer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2007, 11:07:48 PM »
On the contrary, I'm arguing that SMOT produces energy from nothing. Except for electrolysis in an undivided cell, this is the only other example of a device categorically proven to produce energy from nothing and thus violating the principle of conservation of energy.

Isn't the energy coming from the magnets?  The magnets channeling magnetic energy?  I agree that its just energy undescribed by science.  Its comming from somewhere, we just don't know how it acts and can't actively view it, but its there.  Doesn't it have to be?  With all the energy stored all around us, doesn't it seem more logical its coming from this aether, rather than nothing?  Does anyone really know how magnetism functions on a molecular level or beyond, and how it transfers? 

I've always been interesting in the idea of a motor powered just by magnets and have tried and failed many times, but still I believe its possible.  I feel in my gut that there has to be a way to isolate and shape a magnetic field for directional force, and make a motor out of just magnets.  I think when we get into nano technology and to the point of programing metals and their properties, we could make our own characteristics for magnets and make different metals which would affect and be affected by fields as well.  Who knows, materials in the right configuration could aready be out there.  I don't think manipulating a gate is the answer.  I think having no gate at all is what we need.  Easy to say I know.  Magnets can push, but they also pull it back.  We need a magnet that only repels in one direction.  Magnetic fields are circular or spherical, so we need a metal or reroute the field in one direction.  There has to be some way to create a repulsion force in only one direction right?  I just feel there has to be :/

Offline dingbat

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2007, 03:22:31 PM »
Quote
I feel in my gut that there has to be a way to isolate and shape a magnetic field for directional force, and make a motor out of just magnets.

My gut disagrees with yours.  While we (I) don't know exactly how a magnet works, we do know a lot about how they behave.  Magnets act as a force on certain other objects.  I think it can be fairly easily proven that you can't create a "closed" system of forces that will continue to cycle (perpetual motion).

A clock can run for a year or more from a wound spring - the spring acts as a force - until it is unwound.  I think any magnetic arrangement will act the same way.  The SMOT is a magnetic arrangement that in the initial position is "wound up".  When the ball is released, the system "unwinds".  The trick is to "wind" the system back up - get the ball back to the starting position - with less energy than will be gained by dropping the ball from the elevated level.

If you picture yourself floating in outer space, can you make yourself move?  Yes, by taking off a shoe or something and throwing it away from you.  You will accelerate in the opposite direction of the shoe.  Now picture yourself in outer space in a large enclosed box.  Throw your shoe.  What happens?  You accelerate one way, the shoe goes the other - then you hit the side of the box, the shoe hits the side of the box, and everything is back to the initial starting point.  You can't change the course of the box floating in space by anything done inside the box.  This is a "closed" system.  No matter what you do inside the box, you will not permanently affect the course of the box.  If the box is at rest, it will be at rest when movement stops inside the box.  If it is moving at some particular speed and direction, it will be on that course when the movement inside the box stops.  The course may be disturbed while objects are accelerating inside the box, but once the movement stops inside the box, the box will be precisely back at its initial condition.

This example may not seem to apply to magnetic arrangements, but it does.  You can't align a bunch of forces in a closed system in such a way as to cause the forces to keep causing movement.  The system will "unwind" and stop at some equilibrium.  For the clock, this occurs when the spring is sufficiently unwound.  For the smot this occurs when the ball is at the top of the ramp.  For magnet motors this is at the "sticky spot".

Now, with outside impulses, I believe the story can be different.  The trick is to find out what kind of outside impulse can be used to rewind the system, that takes less energy than is put in.

This is what Jack is trying to accomplish with his "valve".  The theory is that the energy (about 8 watts) is less than the energy being derived from the rotation caused by the valve.  The 8w is the "winding" power.  The power at the output shaft is the derived power.

Then of course, I could be completely wrong.  The bottom line is, we just don't know.

db

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2007, 05:33:32 PM »
@All,

What's the story with Steorn, does anyone know? It's July already. Are they gonna have it on a public display and, if so, when?

Offline yorkshireminer

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Re: Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2007, 08:43:00 AM »
It seems that Steorn are holding the demonstration which will last 10 days at the Kinetic Museum in the  Spitalfields area of London. It should start on the 7/7/07. I hope that helps

 

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