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Author Topic: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts  (Read 12155 times)

Offline Peterae

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Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« on: May 13, 2007, 01:22:08 PM »
Hi
I have been very interested in reading about the TPU, and decided a while back to start experimenting, i Love to dabble with Pics and decided to start building a control unit, i felt pic processors are ideal, they are cheap , easily programmed and instead of building loads of different hardware you can change the programming.
I have used the PIC 12F629 it runs at 20Mhz and has an instruction cycle of 200nS and is only an 8 pin Dil.

The following circuit consists of 4 Pics, 1 is the master control, it sends timed pulses to the other 3 pics for syncronizing the pulses when doing frequency sweeps.
there is a button for shutting down all 3 generators, and an led to indicate they are on.

Using code in each frequency generator it is possible to set static frequencys or using a pulse generated from the control pic it is possible to sweep the frequencys on each pic generator synced to the master pic.
The on time and off time can be programmed giving a PWM pulse out on one of the pins, this is then fed to a FET driver and finaly a FET.The Fets are mounted on Heatsinks.

Using minimal parts it is possible to build a pic programmer, this is only a couple of transistors, caps and a 9 pin serial socket, the programing software is free, as is the code assembler.

So for very little money you have an easily configurable system, of course you need to be able to write assmebler code, even this is very easy once grasped.

I am putting this up just incase anyone wants to build it, it is only a prototype so far, and i am in the early stages of testing it, so there maybe changes to the circuit or board over the next few days.


I will put a picture up off the build board later.


Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline z_p_e

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2007, 03:18:33 PM »
Nice job Peter.

Should be helpful and appreciated by many here.

Have you seen these threads?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2071.0.html
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2263.0.html

Darren

Offline Peterae

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 04:34:49 PM »
Hi Darren
Thanks, nice to hear from you, i suppose it's fairly easy for me to make this stuff as im setup with a light box for making boards, i always proto type my stuff using etched PCB as it is quiet a fast and tidy way of making virtualy anything you want.The Pic again makes good sense for me to use, they are only about ?1.00 each have endless functions only limited by the software.
My main problem is i am just itching to build some TPU coils to hook up  ;)
version 1 of the above board was a single channel driver, i soon realised i needed a triple version for experimenting, and also came to the conclusion it would be nice to get them sweeping the frequencys to aid looking for a sweet spot, hence a pic for controling the 3 channels.
It would also be fairly easy to build a cutout system into this to shut down if overload conditions arise, no doubt i will see ashes before i come up with a way to impliment that function, i have thought about using a hall sensor connected to a pic pin checking for large amounts of magnetic field and trip the channels before the nails get pulled from the floor boards :o.
The other thing which this should shine is the ability to de tune and monitor the control frequencys.
I am not sure at the moment how the PICS will behave with copius amounts of RF noise floating around, i suspect that SM was using analogue phase shifting IC's used in the early tv's for line timebase generation, The problem with using these instead of digital closed loop systems is that they would stray if too much noise was introduced into the system , i suspect that was his biggest problem in producing a control system.With the pic the only thing that can shift is the crystal oscillator and even that situation can be monitored inside the pic, if the external crystal stops an interupt is generated and an internal oscillator takes over operation.

The PIC processor has a reduced instruction set and has only 32 instructions to learn.

I have built the PCB and powered up last night, need to runn some checks put the fets in, and continue to get the code done.

The Links you posted are very interesting, He's done a very good job, i was looking at rs232 comms but decided against connecting up to the computer because of toasting the pc LOL, in the past i have used infra red comms port to pc from the pic but we are getting a bit to complicated, so i am trying to keep it simple for now.Hell if we can get a TPU working, i will design a Watt hour meter showing how much energy we are pushing out ;D and connect a TFT screen to it blowing kisses to the person that crack it. ;D

Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 04:34:49 PM »
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Offline Thedane

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2007, 07:33:09 PM »
Isn't it overkill to use 4 pic's to generate 3 signals?

Personally I'd use a single uP - in my case an Atmel ATmega 32  (Got dev. tool + debugger  ;D)
http://atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=2014

Throw a couple or 3 AD9833's on a serial line
http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,770_843_AD9833,00.html

Display and keyboard is straight forward - and a little code --> Nice ACCURATE function generator. (Sine, Square, Triangular and PWM)

A fast power op-amp to drive FET's or transistors - and you're set to go.

I really like CodevisionAVR from HPinfotech
http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/cvavr.htm
It is avaliable in a trial version, and together with Atmels AVR Studio 4 it's nice and fast to develop.

Just my 5 cents  :)

Offline Peterae

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 08:20:39 PM »
Hi Thedane

The AD9833 looks good, now i could hang 3 of these off a pic quiet easily.I am looking into this at the moment.

Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 08:20:39 PM »
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Offline Thedane

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 08:29:43 PM »
Hi Peter,

I like Atmel because a 16 MHz crystal equals 16 MIPS. PIC's usually scales down by 4.
The AVR's also have PWM, A/D, Timers, Comperators, etc. built in, so there's actually not a big difference hardware wise between the two.
Regarding the PWM it is possible to have an automatic reload, so you don't need to service it - besides from changing the settings.

The AD9833 doesn't need 100% supervision -just set the freq/etc. and you're free to scan keypad and update LCD.
This way it is possible to use the generator on other projects, and programmed properly it's easy to change waveform and frequency. You can even make it sweep automatically  :)

I guess the biggest reason why I like AVR's better is that they do not use banks - and software development is almost straight forward.  (I also got a few free samples  ;D)

It's possible to get 2 free samples of the AD9833 on Analog's homepage.

No matter which chip(s) you use - good luck to you on your project!

Offline Peterae

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 08:57:33 PM »
Hi Thedane
I will bear the AD in mind, the problem is i wanted something i could whip up to get running with my TPU.
I didnt really want to spend weeks of my spare time coding user interfaces and protocol interfaces, the AD is a bit more complex in setting up codewise, the pcb is more complicated as well with regard to earth paths, It may also be more unstable near a TPU without going to multiple layer PCB's.
I may come back do a prototype using this in the future, as it surely would be a nice addition to my test equipment.
For now my Pic circuit is simple, and easily coded to achieve what i want it to do.
I must say i am not familiar with Atmel devices, i have used most other, intel, rockwell, Zilog to name a few.
Thanks for your suggestions
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 08:57:33 PM »
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Offline Peterae

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 10:30:38 PM »
Hi Mramos
Unfortunatley i wasnt awear of the boards Darren was on about when i started this.
I am not saying this board is good for everyone, but though i would share my system, i wanted something fast so its not ideal, but other than buying 3 signal generators, it seemed cheap and fast, you are right i will have to reprogram the pics as i change, but this is fast enough, and it leaves the system open to fast modification.
I thought it maybe good to share this incase someone knows and uses Pics anyway.
I will carry on heading towards my first TPU build. ;)
My intention is not to build a signal generator easily configurable, but more a TPU controller that will self tune eventually and have safety features built in.
Using the sweep funtion i hope to be able to put every combination of frequency available on 3 channels over a set period of time, all i have to do is monitor for some kind of response or reaction, and try different configurations.Imagine how long it would take to do this using seperate frequency generators and even then you wouldnt be sure if you missed a combination.
Offcourse i might be going down the wrong road with this stragergy but it's the route i have chosen.


Peter

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 01:45:24 AM »
Some electronics advice from an SM post in his own words:

"The reason it took soooooo long to make a successful SS control unit is because we maintained that attitude for so long. Finally we came to the conclusion that there must be SOMETHING that tube control devices did differently then SS devices. I had a friend who was a wiz-bang SS color TV expert. I asked him if he could give us some pointers on duplicating the tube control devices in a SS state device. His tips eventually pointed us in the right direction and we made SS control devices out of discreet devices which worked. Remember that this was before the big linear IC boom, so everything we did was with little discreet parts and big PC boards. By the way, we found out some very important things during our research that I am sure, very sure that none of the boys out their know about. The following is very interesting:
# 1. PC boards made out of different materials change the operating conditions of SS devices. # 2. Soldering the components at least 1/2 inch above the board itself is essential to making a good SS control unit out of discrete devices.
# 3. As you know, Large amounts of FEEDBACK is essential to frequency and control when using SS devices for everything in the electronics world, HOWEVER, it is the enemy of generators!  If anyone ever gets one of these things operating, have them measure the electro magnetic and hash radio around the unit....it will blow your mind. so, what does that do to control devices in close proximity?
Why do you think we HAD to place our control devices in the middle of the operating coil? Listen: when these units get going they F**K with the control units, changing the signals they put out and receive. they have no choice but to get off frequency and shut down. In most cases they will not even start up.
TUBES are NOT as sensitive as SS control devices and DO NOT require the massive amounts of feed back to operate. There is an advantage in tubes just from that standpoint alone, not to mention all the other things I have mentioned in the past.
I told you guys long ago...
If just these two little things are important discoveries, how far off are all the guys out there trying design their own control devices?   So tell them what I have said and listen to them all scream balderdash!! Haresy!!! And then you can tell them that we found out way back then... It is because the material some PC boards are made out of can absorb humidity... So.... depending on the conditions of humidity of the specific day, the boards would change the characteristics of the SS control circuits.
It took us a long time just to find that little thing out... we never thought of it. no one ever thought of it.... BUT, it turned out to be a very significant thing and so we used the absolute finest PC board material the government used in missiles and rockets... You see, even though no one knows about the PC board material being important to sensitive instruments and SS devices, the government did... So we learned, and learned...
And you and everybody else, God Willing, will learn too."


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 01:45:24 AM »
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Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2007, 03:12:24 AM »
Every thing in quotes but the "Some electronics advice from an SM post in his own words:" are SM's words found at:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2201.0.html

:)  Don't shoot the messenger...LOL  Just giving a friendly reminder of what the INVENTOR of what we are trying to duplicate has said.

I for one am in the process of having a tube circuit built, just working with some to figure out exactly what we want the "controller to do". 

Of course this is not a contest, I posted SM's comments as always to help up find the correct path.  As usual, some find fault with that...Hmm..

Perhaps someone will actually LISTEN to the inventor for once and do as HE SUGGESTS.. wouldn't that be novel!  LOL


Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2007, 04:43:08 AM »
Hi Mike,

I understand some are skeptical and some are frustrated.  I believe the engineering reports on the TPU.  Much more convincing then the videos and very legitamate by very credentialed professional people.

SM said that if just one little thing is out of place the TPU will not work.  We have clues, good ones I think.  I think enough to get a real good start.  I lack equipment and need a tube circuit built to really get started.  I think in reading SM's posts, He suggests going the tube route because it is "easier" to see some "power generation".  He mentions their speed, and many other things.  But if everone will read the full post linked on my last post he tells of the frustration trying to get the same results using SS.  And THEY KNEW HOW the generator works.  So we as one large build team, are trying to find the right avenues and continue to gather knowledge and garner clues.  You are a good man and have offered many on this forum help.  If it turns out that someone out there or my guys helping me, get a tube circuit working in a tpu, we will need you and others to design it to SS.  But WE WILL KNOW IT WORKS! And that would be an exciting achievement for everyone on this forum and could change the world.  I hope this encourages some out there who have grown discouraged or frustrated.

And those wanting to go the SS route, at least follow SM's advice about soldering 1/2 inch above the board and keeping the SS in the center of the TPU.  Thank you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2007, 04:43:08 AM »
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Offline archon79

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2007, 03:39:14 PM »
The people who know most about tubes are audio amp designers. It's basically the last field that still specializes in tube curcuits. We need some of those people here I think

Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 12:45:35 AM »
Hi Peterae, MrAmos,

The AD9833 looks like the business. sine/triangle/square waves.
What more could you want.
I found a link here showing some PIC code:
http://www.picbasic.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3407

Perhaps we can all put our heads together to come up with a PIC or AVR based 3 or 4 channel DDS function generator with LCD display.
Farnell sell the AD9833 for about 4 GBP if you buy 10 or more.
Anyone in the UK want to goes halves?

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Signal+Conversion/ANALOG+DEVICES/AD9833BRMZ/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1143310

We could use the same clock for the CPU as the DDS.


Rob

Offline Thedane

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 08:09:35 AM »
Where does it say that you NEED 3 function generators?
If you have 2 generators, each with a different frequency, you'll generate a 3'rd beat frequency.

This is called binaural, and is often used in music to generate special effects:
http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html


Offline shuzammy

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Re: Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 10:26:09 AM »
The topic of binaural beats is an interesting and noteworthy one.  However, these are frequencies that are "deduced" by the mind (at least in theory) as it subconsciously "makes up the difference" of two independent frequencies.

For example, the difference between a left channel frequency of 50Hz and a right channel frequency of 57Hz is 7Hz.  In this case, 7Hz is said to be the binaural beat frequency.  This particular frequency happens to fall within the Theta brain wave range of 4Hz and 8Hz.  Hence, by listening to two channels of audio with a difference of 7Hz (or anywhere between 4Hz and 8Hz for that matter), one may, in theory, entrain or induce the mind into Theta brain wave activity.

In the case of a TPU, however, we find that when SM powers up and down the larger unit, he flips the switch three times, once for each frequency.  This leads one to believe the third frequency is not virtual (as in the case of a binaural).  One may conclude that the third frequency is not likely a "difference of" but rather the summation or a harmonic of the Primary/Seconday.  Hence, it may be fairly stated that the third frequency is "induced" rather than "deduced".

Binaural beats is a very insightful connection and I'm glad someone brought it up.  After all, everything is connected.

 

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