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Author Topic: water to oxygen technology  (Read 9227 times)

Offline FreeEnergy

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water to oxygen technology
« on: May 13, 2007, 12:01:11 PM »
then is it possible to apply this technology inside a shuttle where it's placed deep inside water? we just need a little energy to produce air inside this shuttle, underwater pressure is not an issue. this system would provide plenty of kinetic energy to make this whole system self operating 24/7.

any ideas guys?




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water to oxygen technology
« on: May 13, 2007, 12:01:11 PM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2007, 07:21:35 PM »
You mean doing an electolysis deep under water and
use the gas to pull up a balloon or something simular
to the top of the water and use this mechanical pull
energy to drive a generator to do the electrolysis ?

At the top, just let the gas go out and let the container
fall down again due to gravity and repeat the cycle ?
Hmm, interesting idea..
If it is deep enough, I guess this could work, as the pull
energy is force x distance and if the distance is
deep enough you could make lots of energy this way...

Ifyou put 2 devices in parallel and have one balloon
pulling up, while the other is retrieved down empty,
this system could work very well...
The question is, if the energy generated is sufficient
to generate this much gas.
The deeper you go you have more hydrostatic pressure , so you
also need probably more energy to release gas from water there
under high water pressure...
or at least the gas volume would be very compressed down there..
Regards, Stefan.

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 09:30:39 PM »
the rising and falling shuttle would provide enough kinetic energy for electrolysis deep underwater :)

peace
« Last Edit: May 13, 2007, 09:59:06 PM by FreeEnergy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 09:30:39 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 07:57:00 AM »
it would be nice if someone can try this out because right now i have no $$$.

peace

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 01:17:12 AM »
what if you apply the hydrosonic pump technology to this! :)

apply this to the shuttle! :)


peace

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 01:17:12 AM »
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Offline Dyamios

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 03:00:17 AM »
This wouldn't work in a physical reality. In order to inflate an object that is deep in the ocean (or any body of water for that matter), you would need a greater amount of pressure inside the vessel than out, and the pressures underwater are extreme, in the thousands of PSI, and it only gets greater as you get down.

Also, the amount of gas has no correlation to how much potential energy it has from floating; potential energy is merely a matter of water displaced, and when there are extreme pressures pushing in on the vessel, the gas produced will be compressed to a very small volume, thus little water displaced. A vessel with a vacuum in it would float the best of anything, since it displaces water without having any extra mass. When gas is put under extreme pressure, such as deep under water, the density of the gas is so high, you be better off filling the vessel with lead (not really, but you get my point). This is exactly the reason the deep-sea fish do not have air-sacs in them; they equalize the pressure throughout their bodies. If they didn't they would literally implode from the pressure.

Sorry mate, sounds good in theory but won't work.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 07:29:34 AM »
Hmm,
you would only need the right gas pressure then.

They are also using it to rise sunken ships to the surface
with air ballons,so you have to have the right pressure with the
gas to be able to fill a container under water.
Would be interesting to see, how much gas would
be generated by an electrolysis device with the same
input power and putting it deeper and deeper into the water...
Maybe in 10 Meters deep it will produce 10 Liters per minute
and at 100 Meters deepth it will only produce 1 Liters per minute
gas at the same electrical input power into the electrolyser ?

Could this be right, or
would it always produce the same amout of gas ?

As I know from my own electrolysis experiments, if
you have lower airpressure, that means vacuum above the water
you can produce much more gas per minute  with the same electrical input power !

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 07:29:34 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 08:40:53 AM »
Hmm,
you would only need the right gas pressure then.

They are also using it to rise sunken ships to the surface
with air ballons,so you have to have the right pressure with the
gas to be able to fill a container under water.
Would be interesting to see, how much gas would
be generated by an electrolysis device with the same
input power and putting it deeper and deeper into the water...
Maybe in 10 Meters deep it will produce 10 Liters per minute
and at 100 Meters deepth it will only produce 1 Liters per minute
gas at the same electrical input power into the electrolyser ?

Could this be right, or
would it always produce the same amout of gas ?

As I know from my own electrolysis experiments, if
you have lower airpressure, that means vacuum above the water
you can produce much more gas per minute  with the same electrical input power !

Regards, Stefan.

shouldn't be hard to test this out :)


peace

Offline Dyamios

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 03:31:00 AM »
Hmm,
you would only need the right gas pressure then.

They are also using it to rise sunken ships to the surface
with air ballons,so you have to have the right pressure with the
gas to be able to fill a container under water.
Would be interesting to see, how much gas would
be generated by an electrolysis device with the same
input power and putting it deeper and deeper into the water...
Maybe in 10 Meters deep it will produce 10 Liters per minute
and at 100 Meters deepth it will only produce 1 Liters per minute
gas at the same electrical input power into the electrolyser ?

Could this be right, or
would it always produce the same amout of gas ?

As I know from my own electrolysis experiments, if
you have lower airpressure, that means vacuum above the water
you can produce much more gas per minute  with the same electrical input power !

Regards, Stefan.


The same amount of mass of gas will be produced no matter what depth the electrolyzer is at, but the volume occupied by the gas produced is dependent on the external pressure where the gas is produced.

Here's an example: If you blow up a balloon to its full size at sea level (about a foot across) and put it a hundred or so feet under the ocean, the external pressures dramatically increase, reducing the size of the balloon to about a ninth of its original volume.

Quote
For every 33 feet down we travel, one more atmosphere (14.7 psi) pushes down on us.

Thus, at a hundred feet below water, there is about 45 more pounds per square inch pushing in on the surface of the balloon.

As stated earlier, the potential energy of the balloon with regards to buoyancy (floating) is dependent upon the volume. The volume decreases dramatically as you go deeper, and the pressure increases quickly.

It would be more efficient to compress the air at sea level and pump it down to the balloon (this is how they raise ships), but this requires MASSIVE pumps to overcome the extreme deep sea pressures (with thousands of pounds of pressure), and this process would still achieve a COP below 1.

I would also imagine that electrolysis of water would take much more energy at higher pressures, as the oxygen and hydrogen produced would be under such great pressure that they would bond to molecules around them instead of staying in a pure gaseous state (though I'm not entirely sure if this occurs).


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 03:31:00 AM »
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Offline Kalash

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 11:36:45 PM »
You guys are crazy...

;)


Alright...

So you get a small volume (little balloon) at the bottom of the ocean (I'd go with 2 balloons - one for hydrogen, one for oxygen so that you can better utilize them when they reach the top of the line...)

I'd place the conveyors inside tubes to that any gasses released by the balloons would rise inside the tube for harnessing at the surface (in some kind of complex processing plant or... whatever)

The water in the tube is going to be moving in the direction of your balloons - set up some kind of spill over waterwheel for processing of this "wasted" energy.



As the balloons rise, they will expand further as pressure decreases.

You must allow for this so the balloons don't POP.  Some kind of diaphragm would probably be best - get a bead of gas pushing the diaphragm upwards, inflating it somewhat... with an open bottom so the excess gas can flow out around the diaphragm inside the tube....

As Pressure decreases and the balloon expands, buoyancy will increase...



Assuming this is used as a means of lifting water (with buckets, or simple....ier...  the water the diaphragms displace and move upwards with their motion...) and this water being used to turn a waterwheel......




HEY! =(
I must have clicked out of the thread I intended to post this in :(

I'm gonna copy it over there... >_<
Whoops.
Sorry.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:57:01 PM by Kalash »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 08:39:58 AM »
You guys are crazy...

;)


Alright...

So you get a small volume (little balloon) at the bottom of the ocean (I'd go with 2 balloons - one for hydrogen, one for oxygen so that you can better utilize them when they reach the top of the line...)

I'd place the conveyors inside tubes to that any gasses released by the balloons would rise inside the tube for harnessing at the surface (in some kind of complex processing plant or... whatever)

The water in the tube is going to be moving in the direction of your balloons - set up some kind of spill over waterwheel for processing of this "wasted" energy.



As the balloons rise, they will expand further as pressure decreases.

You must allow for this so the balloons don't POP.  Some kind of diaphragm would probably be best - get a bead of gas pushing the diaphragm upwards, inflating it somewhat... with an open bottom so the excess gas can flow out around the diaphragm inside the tube....

As Pressure decreases and the balloon expands, buoyancy will increase...



Assuming this is used as a means of lifting water (with buckets, or simple....ier...  the water the diaphragms displace and move upwards with their motion...) and this water being used to turn a waterwheel......




HEY! =(
I must have clicked out of the thread I intended to post this in :(

I'm gonna copy it over there... >_<
Whoops.
Sorry.

ok

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water to oxygen technology
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 08:39:58 AM »
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