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Author Topic: New accelerating gravity wheel ! Converted video from www.newenergymachine.com !  (Read 525970 times)

Offline 4Tesla

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Great info.. I didn't think about where the weights were on start.. have you figured out how to release the springs?

Jason

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Offline noonespecial

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Bob's said "springs have to be compressed for the first revolution". So both outside springs are set for the first revolution, implying that the springs are latched, easy to do with my gate latch solution. But when the machine starts in the vid the weight is lifted to the top, indicating that the weights are also latched in the up position.

Regards, Larry

Isn't this where the cam moves the weights the 4" and a actuator arm moves them the 8" effectively latching the weights? I mentioned before that it "appears" that this only happens one the first revolution and the last. Could be a speed activated thing or just an optical illusion as it doesn't appear to travel the same distance in between.
Charlie

Offline LarryC

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Isn't this where the cam moves the weights the 4" and a actuator arm moves them the 8" effectively latching the weights? I mentioned before that it "appears" that this only happens one the first revolution and the last. Could be a speed activated thing or just an optical illusion as it doesn't appear to travel the same distance in between.
Charlie

Good point, Charlie. I plan on making my actuator arm like I showed in pic #249 except straight when full open. So I could put some type of easy break lock on the center pivot that would keep it fully open at the top. I found that it's pull is really slow and powerful at the beginning of actuating when straight and will try it instead of the cam. Love that Knex.

The optical illusion statement may be correct, like certain spinning objects where the center remains solid and the ends disappear.

@Jason,
Please look at the gate latch pic in #267.  I plan on having a stop hit the handle on the back for release.

Regards, Larry

PS: The 4 and 8 just bring weights to midpoint.

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Offline noonespecial

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PS: The 4 and 8 just bring weights to midpoint.

I originally thought he was saying that this (4" + 8") was for raising the weights from midpoint to the top ("The unit works by raising the weight up to the top at the 12:00 o clock position and the lower weight follows as they are connected. A cam mechanism picks up the weight in the center of the wheel and raises them up approximately 4". After the cam, the actuator arm brings it the rest of the way. (8"). to latch them to start.
He gives a couple of different travel distance descriptions apparently saying the same thing which is confusing. In one place he says that he raises the weights to midpoint and centrifugal force carries it the rest of the way (this wouldn't work of course unless we assume some acceleration factor). And in another he says the weights are raised 1" beyond midpoint which would definitely work.
Charlie

Offline Xaverius

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I contacted this fellow quite some time back and there were 3 things that impeded progress. 1. Hospitalization. 2. The frame was ripped apart during a test and was being re-engineered. 3. He was working on some other project that was consuming his time while he awaited the re-engineering.

I haven't heard anything new, has anyone else?

Cheers,

Harvey

I e-mailed him back in March(08) but never received a response.

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Offline noonespecial

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If you are still around Larry, I just wanted to report my progress. I had my design almost completed but couldn't get the connecting arm geometry to work the way I wanted. So....I'm going to plan B which is a modified Bob wheel. I'll include a picture here and be back later to explain my thinking and I would be interested in your feedback. Talk to you soon.
Charlie

Offline LarryC

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If you are still around Larry, I just wanted to report my progress. I had my design almost completed but couldn't get the connecting arm geometry to work the way I wanted. So....I'm going to plan B which is a modified Bob wheel. I'll include a picture here and be back later to explain my thinking and I would be interested in your feedback. Talk to you soon.
Charlie

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the info. It always help to report problems to save others wasted time. Do you have a drawing of the arm geometry? 

And yes, I'm still around, got most of my parts this weekend, developing and will start testing in a couple of days. I'm sure it will take a lot of adjusting to get it working, if I can.

I do think I understand what you are trying to do with your new design and it seems correct mechanically. But, you don't seem to be capturing the centrifugal slam force anymore. I believe that is the only reason that Bob's machine may work when all other gravity machines fail. I think Stephan has also made a comment about saving the centrifugal force in another thread.

I watched Bob's movie more and don't think it is an optical illusion of not coming up at 12:00, back to the belief that the arm is not coming all the way up until after 12:00 due to the speed. Noticed at the end when he is slowing it down it starts to increment up around 12:00.

Regards, Larry

PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force a fictiitious force  ???


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Offline noonespecial

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Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the info. It always help to report problems to save others wasted time. Do you have a drawing of the arm geometry?
 
Yes, I'll post it for you later today if I get a chance.

Quote
And yes, I'm still around, got most of my parts this weekend, developing and will start testing in a couple of days. I'm sure it will take a lot of adjusting to get it working, if I can.

Sounds great! Can't wait to see it.

Quote
I do think I understand what you are trying to do with your new design and it seems correct mechanically. But, you don't seem to be capturing the centrifugal slam force anymore. I believe that is the only reason that Bob's machine may work when all other gravity machines fail. I think Stephan has also made a comment about saving the centrifugal force in another thread.

Actually, I do but on a smaller scale than on Bob's machine. One thing that concerns me about how his is supposed to work is that there will be a tremendous centripetal vector force at 12:00 which seems counter-intuitive. In other words, the massive weight wants to keep traveling outward and would seem to impede the rotational momentum. Which brings us to your next point....

Quote
I watched Bob's movie more and don't think it is an optical illusion of not coming up at 12:00, back to the belief that the arm is not coming all the way up until after 12:00 due to the speed. Noticed at the end when he is slowing it down it starts to increment up around 12:00.
Which means that the weight may not actually be "slamming" to the end like we originally suspected or something else is going on.

Quote
PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force a fictiitious force  ???

Very interesting article. Helps to understand that there are multiple forces going on here.
Best regards,
Charlie
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 04:45:12 PM by noonespecial »

Offline noonespecial

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Hi Larry,
This was the design I was working on. I was attempting counter-rotational weights to maintain momentum, but the connecting arm didn't work the way I was hoping it would. There was a point between 4:00 and 5:00 where it would stick. I was going to attempt to make the arm adjustable when I came up with my latest design. So I will shelve this one for now and work on the new one.
Charlie
PS - I don't know about anyone else but ever since Stephan moved the database, I've been having a heck of time accessing the forum. It can take up to 5 minutes for a page to load and I'm on a 5M line.  ???

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Offline 4Tesla

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I don't believe the slam is the key to getting this wheel to work, but it may be if you are trying an exact replication.  I believe a modified version of Bobs wheel will work, as I am working on a design that doesn't rely on storing the centrifugal energy, but it does rely on the centrifugal force to move the weights.. just doesn't store it.

Jason

Offline noonespecial

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I don't believe the slam is the key to getting this wheel to work, but it may be if you are trying an exact replication.  I believe a modified version of Bobs wheel will work, as I am working on a design that doesn't rely on storing the centrifugal energy, but it does rely on the centrifugal force to move the weights.. just doesn't store it.

Jason

I will look forward to your design.
Reading between the lines on some of Bob's comments (and viewing the video) I don't believe that the weights "slam" at the ends at all but rather accelerate and then are "slowed" or cushioned by a combination of the shock absorbers and springs. He mentions that without these the machine would destroy itself. If the weights were allowed to "slam" the end of the arm, I don't believe it would work.
Charlie

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Offline 4Tesla

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As a "slam" would be wasted energy also.

Jason

Offline LarryC

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Hi Charlie,Jason,

Sorry Charlie. I tried to respond earlier but had worst problems then you did. 

Maybe we are getting caught up in the terminology and it may be my fault as I don't like to repeat the whole statement every time.

Bob's comment: Once the weights are past the ballance point they accelerate and generate many times their weight that creats the the energy needed. The faster rotation the larger the force.

This is why I think we need to capture the centrifugal slam force in springs that do slow, get compressed, cushion the blow, latch, and save the energy to help return the weights to the top. That is what I mean when I say capture the centrifugal slam force.

Another words, if we can capture a 'many times their weight' force, that is the only way a one rotor gravity machine can possibly work, otherwise the physics is totally against us as Charlie observed at the 4-5 stick. Good mechanical design but cannot beat the physics.

I am working on doing this with a fixed latch, but I am concerned that the latch may need to be variable rather than fixed. A variable latch would be more like a sliding saw blade type rod used for height adjustments and better to adjust for rotational speed.

Regards, Larry

PS: Thanks. It is such a pleasure to work with people who are all helping to accomplish a common goal.


Offline 4Tesla

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This is why I think we need to capture the centrifugal slam force in springs that do slow, get compressed, cushion the blow, latch, and save the energy to help return the weights to the top. That is what I mean when I say capture the centrifugal slam force.

Hi Larry,

I hope you don't think we are saying you're wrong.. just saying that it might not be the only way to get the wheel to work.

Jason

Offline squegee69

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Hi Charlie

Trying to understand your pic in #311.  Is that an orbital gear around the central axis?

Thanks!

 

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