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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: bob.rennips on April 21, 2007, 07:14:44 PM

Title: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: bob.rennips on April 21, 2007, 07:14:44 PM

Take the high current of a homopolar generator and combine with a high voltage resonating circuit.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: Spider on May 31, 2008, 07:38:17 PM
Hi All,

As I was reading up on the homopolar generator I stumbled on this post.

I was wondering, has a collector ring like the one in my picture ever been tried by anyone?
A plastic non-conductive flat ring(yellow). Put a non insulated copperwire(red) on the inside diameter, a copperwire on the outside (red). Now take strands of speakerwire without insulation and wind them arround(blue).
Passing a uniform magnetic field over the ring would generate a DC potential between the 2 red rings I think.

Greetings from Holland, Rene
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: gyulasun on May 31, 2008, 10:51:33 PM
Hi Rene,

Sorry but I am not sure how you mean?  the uninsulated speaker wires will act as electric shorts across the two copper rings so how could we expect voltage difference between the rings?
Or you suppose the induction just takes place in the short pieces of speaker wires?  This latter may be possible I think.

Thanks for further explanations,

Gyula
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: Spider on May 31, 2008, 11:33:11 PM
Hi G,

A homopolar generator or Faraday disk is a conductive disk on an axle which spins in a magnetic field. A DC potential develops between the axle and the rim of the disk which can be collected with brushes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox
It appears to be overunity in theorie, because there is no back torq from the generated current on the driven axle, because of the direction the current runs.
So after reading this I tried to apply this to the tpu. Both overunity, both DC output.
So I thougth of a collector almost like a disk, many wires, short length in parallell.
If you look at the photos of the OPTU and the FTPU, this shape could well fit in the plastic black shapes SM used to build his devices. You could even use bailing wire instead of copperwire.

Give it a thougth.

Greetings Rene.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: pauldude000 on August 21, 2008, 07:48:46 AM
@Spider

Imagine if the disc was either super, or semisuper conductive, say copper with a layer of oxide as pointed out by Michelino to me in a different thread?

This could be interesting, and the control setup for a parallel rotating field (field parallel to the toroid, instead of perpendicular) would just do the trick.

It doesn't matter whether the disc rotates, or the magnet on a homopolar generator. (someone asked) Faraday proved this along time ago, with his original experiments using a Faraday Disc Generator.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: forest on August 26, 2008, 01:06:19 PM
That would be too simple.What about "kicks" SM mentioned ? Apparently in homopolar generator there are no kicks required for operation. Unless "kicks" are the way to rotate magnetic field ?
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: BEP on August 26, 2008, 01:28:26 PM
@Spider

Imagine if the disc was either super, or semisuper conductive, say copper with a layer of oxide as pointed out by Michelino to me in a different thread?

This could be interesting, and the control setup for a parallel rotating field (field parallel to the toroid, instead of perpendicular) would just do the trick.

It doesn't matter whether the disc rotates, or the magnet on a homopolar generator. (someone asked) Faraday proved this along time ago, with his original experiments using a Faraday Disc Generator.

Paul Andrulis

@Pauldude000

I would like to find an example of the underlined above and a reproducible example of a rotating magnetic flux and or field. ( I don't mean switching the energy from one coil to another - not the same thing  ;)

Also I'm now upset with Faraday. He solved his own paradox and didn't let me know ???
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: TinselKoala on August 26, 2008, 07:22:51 PM
@BEP:

http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/homopolar_motors.htm

http://www.mediafire.com/?tv3o955ylbx
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: BEP on August 27, 2008, 04:15:14 AM
@BEP:

http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/homopolar_motors.htm

http://www.mediafire.com/?tv3o955ylbx

@TinselKoala

I appreciate the links and info. Thanks. But try rotating a magnet around it's N/S axis with the target of generating a current in a disc or wire.... It won't work. Faraday had some explanations of why rotating the magnet instead of the disc would not generate potential.

You can spin a magnet so the positions of the poles alternate or move. This is used to generate potential or to make a motor shaft turn.

You can't rotate a magnetic field no matter what you do to the magnets. You will only spin the magnet. The field and the flux are not part of the magnet and are not attached to it no more than light is attached to a lens.

This is why you can make a whopper of a homopolar generator by sandwiching a copper disc between two magnets with the magnets attached so they must turn with the disc. Spin the magnets and the disc all together on the same shaft. You will build a potential from the shaft to the edge of the disc and have only one moving part (less all the brushes needed  :) ) The potential is built because the magnetic field remains fixed even though the magnets are spining.

I've built a few of them. Even though I know it is absolutely impossible to rotate a magnetic field, as described, I'm not dumb enough to believe I know it all. So if it can be done I would dearly love to see it and perform that feat myself.
That is 'rotating a magnetic field and/or flux around it's N/S axis' as opposed to an electric field, flux or plasma.

Sorry.... too wordy. No offense meant at all. You see, for me, hearing someone say they will rotate a magnetic field is like listening to someone drag their front teeth across a chalkboard.......  EEEK!
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: TinselKoala on August 27, 2008, 06:49:41 AM
@BEP: I see what you mean, yes. Of course the examples I gave don't rotate the field in the sense you mean. I agree mostly with your statements about the relation between the field and the magnet. But--a YouTube poster known as AdminOnDuty has posted an interesting experiment that seems to demonstrate "twisting" of the field, and photography of the solar surface near sunspots sometimes shows twisting and rotating field lines, and the earth's auroral displays sometimes seem to rotate, at least partially, and I believe that is an effect of the earth's field lines twisting. If the lines can twist and tangle, as they evidently can, could it not mean that a true rotating field might be achievable with the right geometry?
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: HEYDUDE on August 27, 2008, 06:53:26 AM
BEP

Quote
You can't rotate a magnetic field no matter what you do to the magnets. You will only spin the magnet. The field and the flux are not part of the magnet and are not attached to it no more than light is attached to a lens.

I would love to believe that you are correct in this. The ramifications are mindblowing. I have been struggling with this concept for some time. It means that since the earth is spinning at approx 1000mi / hour at the equator, the magnetic field may not. Then we should be thinking about vertical wires fixed to the earth cutting through that stationary flux at high speed.

But the fly in the ointment is you get a null when you try to complete the circuit in the return wire. So can the return wire be shielded? How do we get at this potential generator. Any ideas anyone?.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: AbbaRue on August 27, 2008, 09:15:59 AM
The Faraday Disk has the same problem.
When a volt meter is attached to the disk and spins with it there is no voltage reading.
The volt meter has to be stationary in relation to the disk.
This is probably the same case with the Earth.
The circuit drawing the power has to be standing still in relation to the earth.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: forest on August 27, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
BEP

I would love to believe that you are correct in this. The ramifications are mindblowing. I have been struggling with this concept for some time. It means that since the earth is spinning at approx 1000mi / hour at the equator, the magnetic field may not. Then we should be thinking about vertical wires fixed to the earth cutting through that stationary flux at high speed.

But the fly in the ointment is you get a null when you try to complete the circuit in the return wire. So can the return wire be shielded? How do we get at this potential generator. Any ideas anyone?.

I'm not sure I understood you but yes, Earth magnetic field is stationary while Earth surface is rotating in it.Because of air inertia atmosphere is spinning at slower or high rate (not sure), anyway that would explain the large potential between Earth surface and upper atmosphere areas. However you can't simply put a wire across Earth magnetosphere and measure large current.It won't work that way.Strange indeed.Seems it's a confirmation of Special Theory of Relativity - in our point of view this conductor is laying in magnetic field because we are on Earth surface and also spinning along the lines, that's why no current induced inside conductor.

Is that a good way to explain it ? I don't know. But I fell that a free moving electrons are not bound to such limits.That would explain spark gap anomaly,Tesla magnifying transformer (skin effect)  and many many other devices based on freely movable electrons.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: BEP on August 27, 2008, 01:30:12 PM
I think we have a lot of mis and non understandings of the workings of nature because we can't seem to think outside of this box or 'frame of reference'.

As for torsion of a 'static' magnetic flux.... I'm sure it is there or there would be no 'static' flux or field. But one big understanding that must take place first:
Think of mag flux as a sponge. Instead of soaking up water it stores moving charges. Moving charges perpetuate this mag field.
To make things clear on my thinking: flux would be the soup in the bowl. Field would be the inside measurements of that same bowl up to the level of the soup. You can't spin a measurement. You can only change your frame of reference of that measurement.

I also have serious doubts on the mechanism of current induction. I don't think it has anything to do with field lines crossing a wire. I think it is the result of the charges stored in the mag flux accumulating on that wire. If this is true then there is a solution to the use of a Faraday generator.

This reminds me of an argument I had with a 6th grade science teacher. She said the only way to have a magnetic field is to have current flow. I said, what of a magnet? You can see where this went....
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: Gearhead on August 27, 2008, 05:00:59 PM
BEP

I would love to believe that you are correct in this. The ramifications are mindblowing. I have been struggling with this concept for some time. It means that since the earth is spinning at approx 1000mi / hour at the equator, the magnetic field may not. Then we should be thinking about vertical wires fixed to the earth cutting through that stationary flux at high speed.

But the fly in the ointment is you get a null when you try to complete the circuit in the return wire. So can the return wire be shielded? How do we get at this potential generator. Any ideas anyone?.

The space shuttle did this experiment with a tethered object in orbit.  The tether broke or was burned through by the energy.  The tether was visible 100 miles away because of the charge.  http://mig.rssi.ru/mirrors/stern/Education/wtether.html
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: zapnic on August 27, 2008, 05:32:50 PM
tesla stuff for notes for unipolar
the field would be dragged in the same direction with a torque, which, up to a certain point, would go on increasing with the speed of rotation, then fall off, and, passing through zero, finally become negative; that is, the field would begin to rotate in opposite direction to the disc
thats weird but i have see in youtube

okey its remaing magnetfied or remanent
and i have read somewhere "somepoint remaing magnetfield is creating large Barkhausen jump's"
nnn mmmmm
weird....
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: BEP on August 27, 2008, 07:41:13 PM
@zapnic

Please post a link to the youtube vid you mentioned. I've seen many and none fit my description.
The fact that rotation reverses at a point I've seen and duplicated but it was rotation of the charge not the magnetic. At least the best I could tell.
Title: Re: Resonating homopolar generator
Post by: giantkiller on August 30, 2008, 05:47:37 PM
@TinselKoala

I appreciate the links and info. Thanks. But try rotating a magnet around it's N/S axis with the target of generating a current in a disc or wire.... It won't work. Faraday had some explanations of why rotating the magnet instead of the disc would not generate potential.

You can spin a magnet so the positions of the poles alternate or move. This is used to generate potential or to make a motor shaft turn.

You can't rotate a magnetic field no matter what you do to the magnets. You will only spin the magnet. The field and the flux are not part of the magnet and are not attached to it no more than light is attached to a lens.

This is why you can make a whopper of a homopolar generator by sandwiching a copper disc between two magnets with the magnets attached so they must turn with the disc. Spin the magnets and the disc all together on the same shaft. You will build a potential from the shaft to the edge of the disc and have only one moving part (less all the brushes needed  :) ) The potential is built because the magnetic field remains fixed even though the magnets are spining.

I've built a few of them. Even though I know it is absolutely impossible to rotate a magnetic field, as described, I'm not dumb enough to believe I know it all. So if it can be done I would dearly love to see it and perform that feat myself.
That is 'rotating a magnetic field and/or flux around it's N/S axis' as opposed to an electric field, flux or plasma.

Sorry.... too wordy. No offense meant at all. You see, for me, hearing someone say they will rotate a magnetic field is like listening to someone drag their front teeth across a chalkboard.......  EEEK!

I left the whole quote in place because it is all very valuable and because it is the Searl configuration. But the most important next step is this one:
Quote
This is why you can make a whopper of a homopolar generator by sandwiching a copper disc between two magnets with the magnets attached so they must turn with the disc. Spin the magnets and the disc all together on the same shaft. You will build a potential from the shaft to the edge of the disc and have only one moving part (less all the brushes needed  :) ) The potential is built because the magnetic field remains fixed even though the magnets are spinning.
The magnets traveling around the ring look the same as spinning with the disk. The copper is cut with new flux position at each new postion. 8) :o
Even tho the Earth spins the attraction is the same and the light falls on a new postion every new moment. We see that a thermal gradient in succession.
Hector and Dan Combine, in the RE_OU-v6.pdf mentions this thermal difference also.

--giantkiller. The devices are all very close not because of the process we apply but because of the action & effect we attain.