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Author Topic: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now  (Read 273583 times)

Offline midnight_blue

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2007, 11:51:32 AM »
I have to agree with sauron.
As long as it is overunity it should not matter. 50 watts may not seem to be high, but I have not seen anything that would even come close.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline prajna

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2007, 12:54:18 PM »
@mrl: Do you have the funds to 1) patent the idea, and 2) protect the patent?  You see, a patent doesn't protect your idea unless you actively prosecute anyone who infringes the patent (unless you patent in India, where the government prosecutes patent infringements).

What people forget is that ideas just come to you out of the aether, they are never 'your' ideas at all.  Ideas just float around and we tune into them.  Try not to have an idea and see what happens.  Try to just not think and (unless you are a yogi) thoughts will continue to come, regardless.

A patent is just another idea, a convention.  It doesn't stop someone stealing an idea, it simply means you may have recourse in a court of law to prosecuting someone if they infringe it.

Quite frankly, if someone manages to develop a free energy system that is widely and cheaply realisable then the world will become such an entirely different place that patents will no longer matter; people will again realise that, ultimately, everything is free and nobody 'owns' anything.  Think about it: if a device uses energy from the sun, is it possible to say that you own that energy from the sun?  The whole ownership concept is a purely imaginary idea in the first place.  The idea that America can 'protect' its oil in the middle east is outrageous!

Ideas are as cheap as the air you breath and are as easily available, except that your culture has taught you that the reverse is true.  Remember back to before you went to school (where you were taught that learning is difficult) and you will realise that what I have said is true.  Give them away for free and you will find that newer and greater ideas will take their place.  Whilst you are trying to profit from an idea you will be so bound up in all the ideas required to protect and profit by it that you will have no room for new creative ideas.

rant over.

Offline mrl

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 06:50:55 PM »
@mrl: Do you have the funds to 1) patent the idea, and 2) protect the patent?  You see, a patent doesn't protect your idea unless you actively prosecute anyone who infringes the patent (unless you patent in India, where the government prosecutes patent infringements).

What people forget is that ideas just come to you out of the aether, they are never 'your' ideas at all.  Ideas just float around and we tune into them.  Try not to have an idea and see what happens.  Try to just not think and (unless you are a yogi) thoughts will continue to come, regardless.

A patent is just another idea, a convention.  It doesn't stop someone stealing an idea, it simply means you may have recourse in a court of law to prosecuting someone if they infringe it.

Quite frankly, if someone manages to develop a free energy system that is widely and cheaply realisable then the world will become such an entirely different place that patents will no longer matter; people will again realise that, ultimately, everything is free and nobody 'owns' anything.  Think about it: if a device uses energy from the sun, is it possible to say that you own that energy from the sun?  The whole ownership concept is a purely imaginary idea in the first place.  The idea that America can 'protect' its oil in the middle east is outrageous!

Ideas are as cheap as the air you breath and are as easily available, except that your culture has taught you that the reverse is true.  Remember back to before you went to school (where you were taught that learning is difficult) and you will realise that what I have said is true.  Give them away for free and you will find that newer and greater ideas will take their place.  Whilst you are trying to profit from an idea you will be so bound up in all the ideas required to protect and profit by it that you will have no room for new creative ideas.

rant over.

A patent is a public claim notice and nothing more.  It is a way to stake your claim.

Hmmmmm....

So --- if someone works his fingers to the bone in order to bring something to fruition what you are saying is people should be able to just come and benefit by it and not be obligated to give anything in return.  If, let's say, he spent ten years of his life and $100,000 of his own money what you are saying is he does not own the work he has produced and, therefore, has no moral right to withhold the product of his labour.  He should just give it all way so others can benefit by it, most likely leaving him to die penniless. If he should be poor and starving he would have no right to complain.

Not much of an incentive is it?  Why would I want to do that?  However, there's no accounting for charity, which I believe in.  But some people cannot afford to be that charitable.  Everyone has their own reasons.

I believe they tried this kind of thing already.  It's called "communism" (every man according to his needs).  As you well know, that was not a successful model because it removed the incentive to work.

In order for people to come up with ideas, and work hard to bring them to fruition, there must be some sort of an incentive for them to do this.  You can say all the things you said above because you have not worked your fingers to the bone (years of your life and a lot of money) trying to get something to work.  If you did, I'm confident that you would want some sort of reward, such as an easer life, which money can buy.  However, as I said, there's no accounting for charity.  It's up to you.

As for your theory on where ideas come from I cannot prove nor disprove it.  However,  that really isn't the point.  The point is, the one who did the work is the one who has the moral right to benefit from it.  You cannot seriously say that: "the one who didn't do the work has the moral right to benefit from it".  If such was the case then anyone could come and take your house, your car, your food and the cloths on your back and you would have no moral right to complain.  So, in fact, property rights do exist.  They exist because if they didn't your life would be in constant danger (it's pretty hard to live without food and shelter).

Rant over.












Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 06:50:55 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2007, 04:42:26 AM »


Here's a likely scenario: I give my design to the world, then some huge company who can mass produce it takes it and starts making big money off it, leaving me nothing but maybe some pats on the back and public recognition


Correct

Hi,
but as it is public domain, not just only one company will make , but very many companies,
so the competition would be very high, which means there is not much margain in the
sales of these devices, so they would not profit too much.

Also we as the community could force these compaies to pay to charity and to the
inventor some royalities ,
otherwise we could make "bad mouth" campaign against the company,
that does not pay these royalities.

Also you could demand as the inventor from the average buyer, that he will
donate 1 month worth of utility bills of money to you and if only 10 % of the people,
who buy the device will do this, you will get massive money
and finally the fame to be the inventor who changed the world.
History will never forget you.
This alone would be the most thrilling incentive at least for me...

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gn0stik

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2007, 05:59:35 AM »
All of that would have to be specified in the license ahead of time. GPL doesn't allow this kind of customization. MIT has an open source license as well, it's pretty liberal and might allow for some minor tweaking to allow for charity donation demands by manufacturers, or a small donation to the inventor. Not sure.

At any rate, I'll test one if it ever comes up.

Regards,
Rich


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2007, 05:59:35 AM »
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Offline ring_theory

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2007, 07:42:16 AM »
 ::) removed by poster
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 04:43:21 PM by ring_theory »

Offline prajna

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2007, 05:07:08 PM »
@mrl: There is a difference between the world of nature and the world of culture.  Nature existed prior to culture and will continue to exist after it.  The problem is that it is very difficult to understand what is natural when you are immersed in this insane society that is so unnatural. Thus observations from nature seem alien to a mind that has been immersed in culture for the vast majority of its development.  What I wrote will appear crazy from a cultural perspective but that makes it no less true.  Culture (society) is responsible for wars and pollution and mental illness, so perhaps it is time to place less value on those delusional ideas and formulate some new ones based on the truth.

The truth is that there is no such thing as work and only someone completely insane would "work their fingers to the bone".  When a cow eats grass is she working or just eating?  When she drinks from the stream is she working or drinking?  How do you tell when you are working and when you are playing?  What is the difference between those two states? You might say that work is what you get paid for but what is money really?  How does it come into existence?  How much money is there in the world and how come some folks have to work for it and some just inherit it or conjure it out of thin air?

To live in nature costs nothing; it is free.  Once you want something other than what nature offers, there is a cost in terms of working against nature.  The more you work against nature the greater the cost.  Almost everything we do, short of breathing, is working against or placing demands on nature.

Why do we want 'free' energy in any case?  Isn't it because we are being ripped off by those who charge money for it at the moment, and that they create wars and other tragedies in the process of providing it?  You want to be rewarded for being fortunate enough to experience the joy of discovery so that you might do something to mitigate the fact that you are trapped in a world where almost everything you want to do will cost you money.  You want to pass your costs on to others; where do you think that the costs you face came from? Surely they arose because others have done the same to you. If you want free energy then now might be a good time for you to break the cycle and stop expecting a reward for receiving what nature offers you for free.

As for communism, who taught you that it disincentives work?  Isn?t that a good thing in any case?  I sure don?t want to work, do you? It is unnatural to want to do so.  It is, however, entirely natural to enjoy the thrill of discovery and to delight in creativity.  If you had all of your needs met (food, shelter and clothing) then why would you work?  You wouldn?t; you?d play, invent and create rather than consume, enslave and destroy.  Your playful creativity would benefit others and you would be benefited in turn by their playfulness.  Communism is yet another idea, no better or worse than capitalism; both are completely divorced from what is natural, and neither has been implemented in any way that benefits mankind or the world we live in.

If you are out to profit (something that absolutely does not exist in nature) then by all means patent.  If you are in the free energy thing for the betterment of mankind then by no means do so.  Work for free and encourage others to do the same, then we will have not only free energy but freedom in all aspects of life.

I?m not picking on you mrl, it is just that you offered me the opportunity to rant about a subject that is close to my heart.  Thank you for that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2007, 05:07:08 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2007, 05:35:22 PM »
"The theory of the communists may be summed up in the single sentence: abolition of private property."
   
                                   ------- Karl Marx   "The Communist Manifesto"

       Maybe you should read it and truly understand what that means?

I want to make this clear right now. I am not here to debate political systems. This is also a subject that is close to my heart, and I am a citizen of the United States of America. I am also a Constitutionalist, and firmly believe in the Bill of Rights as laid out by our Founding Fathers. I believe in the right to freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc. as it was originally put down on paper. Not as it has been bastardized and evolutionized by the Socialist Scum that are in charge today. The right to property is GOD given, and no loser Communist can take it away without a fight.

All ranting aside. This is not the forum to debate this stuff. You stated what you believe, I stated what I believe. Now if you want to debate it somewhere else then PM me and I MIGHT be interested, but realistically I think you are a lost cause. (Just as you can believe that I am as well) .

So let's stop wasting Computer Memory and get back to work.

Thank you for your interest.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »
All of that would have to be specified in the license ahead of time. GPL doesn't allow this kind of customization. MIT has an open source license as well, it's pretty liberal and might allow for some minor tweaking to allow for charity donation demands by manufacturers, or a small donation to the inventor. Not sure.

At any rate, I'll test one if it ever comes up.

Regards,
Rich



Nobody has applied yet and Naudin and St. D.Allen had not answered yet, if they want to test
one of the units.
So I think as You Rich are very active with your forum right now, I would send you a unit,
if someone applies.

If I find the time soon, I will put all the conditions , that we have laid out so far
in this thread into a PDF File and append it to the first posting in this thread to have
it all a little more straightened and cleared up.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »
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Offline prajna

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2007, 06:00:50 PM »
Resinrat, what makes you think the right (define right) to property (define property) is god (define god) given?

I wasn't stating what I believe; that is the whole point.  Beliefs are what I am arguing against. Begin from what you don't have to believe, to what you can observe.  Did you ever observe ownership?  Did you ever observe a 'right', maybe growing all lush and purple next to a daffodil?  What kind of god, in her right mind, would give people the right to bear arms, fer christ'sake! Man might do so but no god worthy of the name would.

I am not a constitutionist, nor a communist nor socialist, nor any kind of 'ist. I don't fit into any box that you can write off as a lost cause and neither does the only part of you that has any import in the real world.  Surely this is the perfect thread to discuss rewards, profit, prizes, patent v. open source.

Who are you to dismiss this discussion from the category of work pertaining to free energy?  What counts as work anyway?  Isn't that essentially part of the discussion I was participating in? The problem is that you only believe in free speach, you don't practise it. I don't believe in it but I do practise it.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2007, 06:16:50 PM »
Please all,
don?t argue in this thread about politics and free speech, etc...
Please let this topic remain what it is,
a topic to apply for the OverUnity prize and who wants to join in donating money
to the inventor which will choose to apply for the prize.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2007, 06:16:50 PM »
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Offline prajna

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2007, 06:49:17 PM »
Stefan,

part of that discussion involved the subject of patenting verus open source, that is what I was participating in. That subject arises often in various threads on this forum and, I feel, deserves discussion.  If this is not the thread for it then which is more suitable?  mrl labled some of my comments communist. No problem, I responded to that.  Resinrat tried to suggest that he wasn't here to debate political systems and then proceeded to expound his political views and, in the midst of an attempt to limit discussion, declared that he believed in free speech.

If you are going to offer a forum to discuss a prize, you have to expect people to compete to express their views regarding it.  My view is: don't limit the discussion, encourage it.  The rights and wrongs of rewards for developing free energy systems (from prizes throught patents, royalties and rewards) are an inherant part of those systems and are of interest to anyone involved in the field whether in a positive or negative sense.  If not here then where is the appropriate thread in which to discuss the philosophical aspects of invention? It certainly needs discussion.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2007, 07:07:09 PM »
Okay, please discuss this in the thread Open Source versus Patenting.
Many thanks for understanding.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline prajna

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2007, 07:11:09 PM »
Ah, yes.  Good thread to discuss in, Stefan.  Thanks.

Offline Charlie_V

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Re: OverUnity prize money 15825 US$ total until now
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2007, 04:30:48 AM »
Personally guys, if I invented an over unity machine, I would not give it to the public.  I would first file a patent on it.  Second, I would start making electricity so the power company paid me.  Then I would try licensing it or start my own company (or both).  Once the patent was granted, I would then share the basic concepts with the public - never divulge all the secrets.  I guess I'm a greedy bastard, but then again I don't have an over unity device - so no worries!

 

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