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Author Topic: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect  (Read 7105 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect
« on: April 04, 2012, 12:24:24 AM »
Hi everyone,
 I've been out of the country since November 2nd doing some volunteer work in a Spiritual Organization that help the underprivileged in South Africa.
 In my spare time I continue my research. I've been experimenting with Coil Flyback Feedback since I believe it could greatly improve electric motor efficiency and could possibly be applied in transformers which would make a solid state device (no moving parts).
 I have made a crude permanent magnet motor (pulse motor) to which I demonstrate the energy saving effect once you capture and re-input the flyback to the pulse motor.
 I was originally trying to send it back to the same coil but I lack electronics skills to do it correctly. Isolation of the power source, coil, MOSFET switches are a pain. Timing is another problem.  After over 30 hours and all kinds of blown devices I had to come up with an idea that didn't need all these components just for proof of concept.
 I'll let the more talented in electronics come up with a circuit if they feel the pursuit is worthy after seeing my simple proof of concept video.
 
 When first trying to make the feedback circuit I was using a hard drive disk platter and bearing assembly as magnet rotor but when I couldn't get it to work I had to come up with another idea. What I came up with was to mount the HD plater to a shaft of a 12vdc motor I salvaged from an old VCR and send the flyback to it which would Isolate it from the coil and the energy should assist the pulse motor to turn faster.
 Well the results are better then I expected!... the pulse motor goes from 200ma with a 6.24vdc input with no flyback to 50ma @ 6.37vdc with flyback feedback at the same RPM.
 In the video demo I use my oscilloscope to match up the timing (RPM) before and after. So don't go crazy on the scope shots you see in the video as it was used mostly for that purpose. The probe is across the coil. The scope data is not stable as there are to many peeks to display correct Frequency, Period and so on. So I made some extra scope shots (below) with a standard voltage and current setup through a 1 Ohm resistor. First shot is No flyback feedback with input at 6.24vdc @ 200ma and the next is with flyback feedback feedback at 6.37vdc @ 50ma.  just like it was done in the video. The rotor has 4 magnets so with the new scope shots below the Frequency is 110Hz so we divide it by 4 (magnets) = 27.5 turns per second x 60 (seconds in a minute) = 1,650 RPM the magnet rotor is turning.
 
 Link to video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1omqvHXPvOs&feature=youtu.be
 
 I have not seen or noticed any topic on recirculation flyback back in a motor, so to me it looks promising and would like the input of those who are knowledgeable. If I'm missing something or not fully understanding the present electric motors please feel free to enlighten me.
 I'm also very open to circuit suggestions that could send the flyback back to the coil but in the same current direction the On pulse did. This could be done during the off time and that energy could be part of the next pulse which should greatly assist the motor.
 
 So to be clear on what I would like the motor and circuit to do, is for the magnet to naturally attract to the coils core (no power), once at center of the core the coil is hit with the energy of the flyback collected in a capacitor of the previous pulse and the balance to top off the cap can be regulated coming from the battery or energy input.
 
 I welcome any other suggestions
 
 Thanks for sharing
 
 Luc

« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 04:33:57 AM by gotoluc »

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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 05:18:14 AM »
Hey Luc

I did one like this also...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXxvAQ_mdUk

I have 3 electric bikes. 2 are brush less and 1 has brushes. The brush less interest me for being a commercial motor.  They are controlled by a pwm driver to provide variable throttle. Ill have to look at it with a scope and try some things. If the pwm pulses during an on cycle of the motor drive coil, we might be able to capture those multiple pulses.

You are getting more acceleration than I thought you would. When you add the second motor and it goes faster, what is the input current then? If its the same or less, with more speed, thats also good. ;]

We have to remember, these pulse motors, efficiency isnt always what we might think we are getting. The torque and speed would need to be measured to get a better understanding of the efficiencies we think we are seeing.  ;]  This is why Im looking at what is available commercially and build on that.

My Trek has a Chinese kit I got from Canada on Ebay. 48v 500w 26mph 20mi per charge. Its a brush less hub motor. Im 220lb and the bike is near 80lb fully equipped. This thing spins tire, from the hub motor, with me on it.  Looks like this one, cant say its the same as 4 years ago.   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V500W-26-Front-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/370600805690?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564987853a

Ill let ya know what I find.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 05:34:17 AM »
Also, if you could,try this compared to what you vid has shown...

Put a diode across your drive coil. Connect it in a way that the input from your circuit wont conduct through it. This will recycle the field collapse into your drive coil giving you a longer drive pulse beyond pulse cutoff.  You will get an acceleration. Maybe not as much as what you have shown, but the design of the vcr motor is most likely more efficient than our simple pulse motors.  ;]

With the diode, you wont get output to you secondary circuit cap, because it is all recycled into the drive coil.

Mags

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Re: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 05:34:17 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 09:21:51 PM »
Hi Mags,

thanks for you post and reminding me of your test.

I now tried replacing the motor with a second coil and the effect is minimal or next to nothing. I built a nice rig that I could adjust the flyback coil at any angle and like I said it hardly helped the rotor turn any faster. About like you got in your experiment. So I don't know why sending the flyback to the DC motor which is attached to the rotor works so well ???

Give it a try if you can!

Luc

 

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