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Author Topic: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load  (Read 225364 times)

Offline Ergo

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #375 on: August 30, 2009, 09:29:12 PM »
I'm well aware of both the HildenBrand and Flynn motors but they have never been proven overunity.
There's several replications on the Flynn device and it seems like you getting a free meal.
But none of those replicants took the importance core area into play.
If they had tested twice the core area they would have noticed that it would render the same
force as having half the area and a magnet inserted at the same amount of power input.

When it comes to generating magnetic fields then there is only three things that matter.
1) Using a closed loop whithout any airgaps whatsoever, aka the toroid shape.
2) The permeability of the core. higher is better.
3) The ferromagnetic core size, larger is better.

I have tested both the HildenBrand valve and the Flynn concept numerous times.
In all occasions I found the same force being generated when using twice the core area.
In my book there is no overunity to be found from either HildenBrand or Flynn.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #376 on: August 30, 2009, 09:51:56 PM »
This video shows
a special MEG with 240 % efficiency:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-avdbf9B1w


For more info go to this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.0

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #377 on: August 30, 2009, 11:27:50 PM »
Sorry to hear your test results didn't show you anything Ergo. Fortunately mine did, so I need no further convincing.  :)

Cheers,

Ted

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #377 on: August 30, 2009, 11:27:50 PM »
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Offline Ergo

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #378 on: August 31, 2009, 08:26:05 AM »
Sorry to hear your test results didn't show you anything Ergo. Fortunately mine did, so I need no further convincing.  :)

Cheers,
Ted

If you refer to the boosting "Flynn" effect in your tests then please make the same tests with
twice the core area and no magnets. Then you'll see.... :D
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:47:00 AM by Ergo »

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #379 on: September 05, 2009, 02:59:53 PM »
If you refer to the boosting "Flynn" effect in your tests then please make the same tests with
twice the core area and no magnets. Then you'll see.... :D
I think we may be talking apples and oranges here. There are hundreds of different ways to switch and redirect magnetic current. Many exhibit no practical advantage and some produce a loss. It all depends on what the purpose and application are intended to accomplish.
Permeability and hysteresis have little to do with the core principal of Faraday's law which states: "The induced electromotive force or EMF in any closed circuit is equal to the time rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit".
This "law" as stated is conditional. I found that "magnetic flux" is not all the same thing. Faraday's law only holds true as long as the voltage and the current are out of phase, which is nearly always the case in an AC circuit (especially through an inductive load such as a transformer).
However, DC won't produce induction only because the voltage and current are in phase, not because of the lack of change. This has nothing to do with permeability or core size.
Magnets are similar in this respect. Electrical current will only be induced in a coil if the magnet is moving with respect to the coil. Movement alters the phase of the B and H fields, just like AC alters the phase of voltage and current.
When magnetic flux from a permanent magnet is switched through a coil, without any physical movement involved, NO electrical current is produced in the coil from that magnet. I proved this through numerous configurations where magnetic flux from a PM was positively switched through a coil with absolutely no current induced in that coil. In my mind, this absolutely refutes Faraday's contention that it is the change in current that is the only condition for induction.
Which is why I question the MEG. Under "normal" conditions it doesn't work, even though theoretically it should. That is not to say that a way to alter the phase of the B and H fields without movement has not been found. Perhaps it has. This, to me, is the holy grail of MEG building.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of gain in a switched magnetic configuration either. While trying to get a MEG to work, I found a lot of different ways to switch flux around. Some quite intriguing. 

Cheers,

Ted

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #379 on: September 05, 2009, 02:59:53 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #380 on: September 05, 2009, 04:56:04 PM »
@Ted Ewert
 
Quote
"The induced electromotive force or EMF in any closed circuit is equal to the time rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit".
This "law" as stated is conditional. I found that "magnetic flux" is not all the same thing. Faraday's law only holds true as long as the voltage and the current are out of phase, which is nearly always the case in an AC circuit (especially through an inductive load such as a transformer).
However, DC won't produce induction only because the voltage and current are in phase, not because of the lack of change. This has nothing to do with permeability or core size.
I would have to agree, it should be understood that if you keep doing the same old things you can expect the same old results. As well, most of what we call "Laws" do have conditions attached to them, that is you must continue to do the same old things in the same old ways for the laws to apply fully. This is why acadamia has failed to produce results, because while they may be good at memorizing what has already been done they lack creativity. The creative mind will seek understanding then build on this to seek creative means around the problem at hand. The creative minds may not be "lawbreakers" but they most certainly bend them to the extreme, LOL.
Regards
AC

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #381 on: September 05, 2009, 06:01:31 PM »
Hi Ted, could you please post some examples, what you found out exactly ? Please specify the used circuit and how you powered it and what the output was. Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #381 on: September 05, 2009, 06:01:31 PM »
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Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #382 on: September 06, 2009, 04:04:55 PM »
Hi Ted, could you please post some examples, what you found out exactly ? Please specify the used circuit and how you powered it and what the output was. Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Here's a simple circuit that illustrates my point.

See image here: http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6688/megcircuit.gif

In the unpowered state, magnetic flux flows and is contained within the iron loop. The iron is polarized according to the polarity of the magnet.
The coil is bifiler wound, with one winding being used as the power coil and the other as the load coil. The power coil is driven by a voltage suitable to overcome the force of the magnet (which can be surprisingly low).
When the coil is energized, and a magnetic field is developed counter to that of the magnet, magnet flux from the magnet ceases to flow all the way through the iron. Instead, it is blocked since the polarity of the iron core has been reversed by the energized coil.
When power to the coil is removed, the magnet naturally reestablished the original flux path through the iron by reversing the polarity of the core. Once the polarity is changed, full current once again flows.
The load coil has dutifully recorded this event, which is monitored through a scope and a load power meter. What is seen on the scope clearly shows the power pulse to the coil, but nothing else. There is no signal or power induced once the electrical pulse in the power coil ceases. According to Faraday, there should be electrical current generated in the load coil when the magnet reverses the polarity of the core and reestablishes full flux flow. But there is nothing. I also tried the same circuit with a piece of iron in place of the magnet and got identical results. The magnet made no difference.
This is a simple setup that clearly illustrates why the MEG, in its most common form, doesn't work. Having a magnet stuck on the end of a coil doesn't produce current because there is no movement between the magnet and the coil. Likewise with the MEG.
I encourage anyone interested to replicate this simple circuit and independently verify the conclusions stated above. If anyone can find a way to alter the phase of the B and H fields, as through movement, you'll have free power forever with even the simple circuit shown here.

Cheers,

Ted

Offline gyulasun

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #383 on: September 06, 2009, 07:05:57 PM »
Hi Ted,

I have read your thoughts and findings on the MEG with interest.  Years ago I built a MEG as per the Bearden / Naudin setup but I found a COP of 0.86 or so only.
I also realized as it is shown, it is a normal transformer,  cannot work otherwise.
I would like to read your take on the so called Bulgarian MEG version where one or two of the permanent magnetic pathes that are closed in themselves like in the MEG are cut by another and independent magnetic pathes that are also closed in themselves. This way the input and output coils cannot induce directly into each other (like in the MEG) because they are placed into the two different magnetic pathes.
I believe induction between the input and output coils can happen only by saturating the core in one of the magnetic pathes, thus the other path "sees" a big magnetic resistance due to the "airgap" thus created. At least this is how I imagine the working principle, see the first post in this thread here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.0 

Can you agree with this principle?  IF your understanding is different on this Bulgarian setup, I would love to read it.

Also,  I am aware of magnetic amplifier circuits of the 50s (or max the 60s) when the core included (rectangular or round) holes with coils to excite a certain part of the core, causing local saturation at that part, hence increasing the magnetic resistance.  Is this a good approach to apply for building a real MEG-like setup, I wonder?

Thanks,  Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #383 on: September 06, 2009, 07:05:57 PM »
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Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #384 on: September 06, 2009, 08:21:48 PM »
@Ted Ewert
 I would have to agree, it should be understood that if you keep doing the same old things you can expect the same old results. As well, most of what we call "Laws" do have conditions attached to them, that is you must continue to do the same old things in the same old ways for the laws to apply fully. This is why acadamia has failed to produce results, because while they may be good at memorizing what has already been done they lack creativity. The creative mind will seek understanding then build on this to seek creative means around the problem at hand. The creative minds may not be "lawbreakers" but they most certainly bend them to the extreme, LOL.
Regards
AC
Good point, I agree. While it's foolish to throw the baby out with the bath water, believing that scientific "laws" are immutable is equally ridiculous.
Science is still in it's infancy. There are vast possibilities open to the discerning mind. Creative experimentation leads to greater understanding of natural processes. Theory is fine, but you have to build it to really understand it. The MEG is a good example of this.

Cheers,

Ted

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #385 on: September 06, 2009, 08:46:31 PM »
Hi Ted,

I have read your thoughts and findings on the MEG with interest.  Years ago I built a MEG as per the Bearden / Naudin setup but I found a COP of 0.86 or so only.
I also realized as it is shown, it is a normal transformer,  cannot work otherwise.
I would like to read your take on the so called Bulgarian MEG version where one or two of the permanent magnetic pathes that are closed in themselves like in the MEG are cut by another and independent magnetic pathes that are also closed in themselves. This way the input and output coils cannot induce directly into each other (like in the MEG) because they are placed into the two different magnetic pathes.
I believe induction between the input and output coils can happen only by saturating the core in one of the magnetic pathes, thus the other path "sees" a big magnetic resistance due to the "airgap" thus created. At least this is how I imagine the working principle, see the first post in this thread here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.0 

Can you agree with this principle?  IF your understanding is different on this Bulgarian setup, I would love to read it.

Also,  I am aware of magnetic amplifier circuits of the 50s (or max the 60s) when the core included (rectangular or round) holes with coils to excite a certain part of the core, causing local saturation at that part, hence increasing the magnetic resistance.  Is this a good approach to apply for building a real MEG-like setup, I wonder?

Thanks,  Gyula
Hi Gyula,
I haven't built or tested the Bulgarian MEG so I don't know if it works or not. It's an interesting design and looks like it may have possibilities. Perhaps the circular core acts as a phase shift network of some kind.
I don't claim to be any sort of expert on the MEG, I just know that the simple switching of flux from a PM through a coil doesn't produce squat.
Maybe the Bulgarian has solved this problem with his arrangement. Has anyone built a copy?

Ted

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #385 on: September 06, 2009, 08:46:31 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #386 on: September 07, 2009, 04:35:10 PM »
Hi Ted,

Thanks and there is a replication by member Getca, see here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg134670#msg134670

Gyula

Offline powercat

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #387 on: October 24, 2009, 11:15:07 AM »
a new video from Richard and a new device, looks like the old one didn't work after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XdEVsHOQA
cat

Offline markdansie

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #388 on: October 24, 2009, 11:36:16 AM »
@Powercat,
well at least he stated in his video there was a lot of build-ups, a lot of let downs and a lot of trash.
i still see the battery is there. If it ran for a month with a load on the battery he might have something, not an hour.
PS obviously the last one didnt work
as always
kind Regards
Mark

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: new magnetic motor goes 2000 rpm without load 1000 rpm with load
« Reply #389 on: October 24, 2009, 01:27:31 PM »
...
This is a simple setup that clearly illustrates why the MEG, in its most common form, doesn't work. ...

and the theory of fields explains it.
You have just a superposition of a constant field (from the permanent magnet) and a variable field (from the coil). As the emf in a coil depends only on the change of the magnetic flux, all is happening as if the constant field was inexistant. To remove the magnet and replace it by a piece of material of same permeability but not magnetized does not change the results. Then it is obvious that the output coil can provide energy only from the input coil, and that the magnet has no role here.








 

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