# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Low-Q on March 09, 2007, 12:44:46 AM

Title: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Low-Q on March 09, 2007, 12:44:46 AM
Is these statements true?

1. Released energy is a closing difference between two states. E.g: Balancing two electric charges, a falling object from point X to point Y.

2. All type of potential energy, as a function of the difference between the two states, is in comparison the same as kinetic energy.

3. Matter is by itself pure energy, and it must therefor exist a counter matter (Black matter) to balance this energy into nothing, as the sum of all energy in the universe must be zero.

4. Matter cannot exist without black matter

In other words: Energy is always the potential between two counter states.

Br.

vidar

Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: IronHead on March 09, 2007, 12:53:27 AM
Energy is the ability to do work .
So you must be more specific. You must mean electric energy.
Now this can get strange because there are all kinds of electric energy.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: dingbat on March 09, 2007, 01:20:38 AM
Just to clarify - work = force times the distance through which it acts; specifically, the transference of energy equal to the product of the component of a force that acts in the direction of the motion of the point of application of the force and the distance through which the point of application moves.

(according to the dictionary)

What this basically says it that movement is always involved in work.  Applying force does not constitute work unless something is moved through a distance by a force.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Low-Q on March 09, 2007, 01:21:33 AM
Energy is the ability to do work .
So you must be more specific. You must mean electric energy.
Now this can get strange because there are all kinds of electric energy.
Balancing two electric charges can do work.

A falling object can do work.

Kinetic energy can do work.

Balancing matter with black matter will delete this planet.

Specific enough?

;D
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: FreeEnergy on March 09, 2007, 01:57:21 AM
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Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: IronHead on March 09, 2007, 02:23:34 AM
Energy is the ability to do work .
So you must be more specific. You must mean electric energy.
Now this can get strange because there are all kinds of electric energy.
Balancing two electric charges can do work.

A falling object can do work.

Kinetic energy can do work.

Balancing matter with black matter will delete this planet.

Specific enough?

;D

Oh yeah , that was cool . Thanks dude

Just Learn It
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: bitRAKE on March 09, 2007, 02:37:05 AM
Nothing is not energy - there is no matter - only energy form. All energy is in motion.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Low-Q on March 10, 2007, 09:21:28 AM
So, if I understand right, all type of energy is in some kind of motion.
Do magnets have any movable energy in it, or are they just static?

Br. Vidar
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: fleebell on March 21, 2007, 07:10:17 AM
Magnets have movable energy yes, just about everything does to some extent, but I think the answer to the question you are asking is they are static. You can't really alter a permanent magnet's  strength or direction by doing something to the magnet itself (well, actually you can but generally end up with a messed up magnet so there's not much point in doing that)  , you have to alter the field itself  with something else external to it.

As an example : You can use a magnet as part of  an electric circuit such as battery - wire- lightbulb- wire - magnet - battery and it will have very little effect on the magnetic field of the magnet except for the small field  created by the flow of the current itself. This will either add or subtract from the magnet's own field depending on direction of current flow and magnet orientation.

Only if you tried to put too much through it and heated it too hot due to resistance would it really have any other effect and then just cause it to quit being a magnet.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Low-Q on March 21, 2007, 09:07:50 AM
If this is true, there is no point making a magnet motor, if a magnet cannot do any work by its own, right?

Vidar
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: CTG Labs on March 21, 2007, 09:20:53 AM
Surely a magnet can do work on its own.  If you place a magnet on your fridge it will stay there forever doing work to resist falling/being pulled down by gravity?

D.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: CTG Labs on March 21, 2007, 09:24:33 AM
The current definition of "Energy is the ability to do work" is not really telling us what energy is.  Man is the ability to catch fish, but this is not what man is, just something he can do!

D.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Low-Q on March 21, 2007, 12:31:18 PM
Surely a magnet can do work on its own.  If you place a magnet on your fridge it will stay there forever doing work to resist falling/being pulled down by gravity?

D.
A hook can then do work, by being hooked up into something and do work because it doesn't fall down? I don't think so. Please explain what you mean :)

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: CTG Labs on March 21, 2007, 01:31:16 PM
I see your point, but a magnetic field is being sourced by energy which is continuously supplied forever and its that magnetic field that does work on the metal of the fridge to prevent it from falling.

Of course a hook will prevent something from falling, but its not a field effect which is being continuously supplied with energy.

Well, perhaps I am just talking crap, I mean what do I know anyway...!

Dave.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: ChileanOne on March 21, 2007, 02:24:53 PM
I'm glad to see this discussion taking place. Most of us are not experts in the matter, which, contrary to a first thought, may be an actual advantage as we are not burdened by years of programming preventing us to get to the truth.

I have been wondering on how the concept of energy as being force x distance is a practical but not at all encompassing conceptual interpretation.

We have forces being provided by magnetic and or gravitational fields. The traditional physics say that one stores energy by moving an objet against the force field direction (we apply a force equal than the exerted by the field and we move the object a distance, so we get a Potential Energy stored in the object).

I have been wondering if energy could be described as a derivative of a force field against distance AND time. It is supposed that force fields are time invariant.

I have been following Steorn claims. There they have found that magnetic fields are indeed time variant, so they found a loophole where an potential energy can be gained out of a time variation of the field itself, thus, allowing for the creation (and also destruction) of energy! Holly CoE, we have a leak in the theory!

The best analogy I can find is like if we could find a time variation in gravity, we could lift a mass in the moment of weaker gravity and let it fall in a moment of strong gravity, thus creating energy out of the field itself!, we could als destroy energy by doing the opossite.

I think Milkovic's pendulums somehow exploit a loophole in gravity fields time invariance.

Can we get time inside the F x D expression? Can we? Can We?

I suspect the answer is lurking very near.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: ChileanOne on March 21, 2007, 02:33:59 PM
maybe the "non existant" centrifugal force is the way that Milkovic exploits to induce a localized time variation change in the gravity field affecting the pendulum.

Hmmm.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: ResinRat2 on March 21, 2007, 03:32:53 PM
As you ponder energy, force, and work. Consider this example.

The performance of isometric exercise involves the pressing of the body against an immobile object with full strength achievable in most cases.

Since Work =  Force X Distance then no work was performed since distance is equal to zero. Yet you have reached the state of high heart and respiration rate. You are also sweating because you produced heat.

Since Force = Mass X Acceleration then no force was applied since acceleration was zero. Yet you can reach the point of total exhaustion by using all your might with a Force of zero.

Energy was depleted but in this case it was chemical, brought about by the Force of your Will. So does a will have energy? If will can be an energy, then how do you define energy?

My point is, you need to define what energy you are trying to explain. There is thermal, chemical, electrical, nuclear, etc.

I think your question is too vague. It needs clear paramaters for a definition.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: ChileanOne on March 21, 2007, 05:05:40 PM
ResinRat:

Thanks for following. I think the analogy of pushing a wall is flawed because there is movement at the level of the miofibrilles on the pusher's muscle, so the E=Fxd remains true, only non obvious.

I'd say that a better idea for this would be the nail in the wall, where one can hang a mass. Then, still there is not energy spent after you store the potential by lifting the mass against the gravity field. The constant push down of gravity is being cancelled by the strong nuclear forces that hold the nail in the wall and keep the mass together. We still have forces acting against each other and cancelling out, but not movement. If gravity and/or nuclear forces would vary, the mass would move trough times, as a result of a change in potential energy trough time, thus one could see energy being created and/or destroyed. The key is to find the ways in which the force fields vary relative to each other and with respect to time, there is the source of infinity energy, and that's what Steorn seems to have found.

regards.

Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: Kent767 on March 21, 2007, 09:42:12 PM
I see a little bit of logical fallacy going on in this thread i'll try to clear it up.

Work is always force x distance (in terms of electricity its still equivalent, for example
1 watt = 1 joule/sec   or... 1 watt is enough electricity to move a 1 kilogram weight 1 meter against gravity in 1 second.

regarding work without motion and forces without motion.

a force is defined  F = M*A

you can have a force without motion, the tension on a cable on a suspension bridge is a force, it can be measured in Newtons, or the ability to lift 1 kilogram against gravity.

Work on the other hand, cannot be done without motion.
you can have a magnet holding something to the fridge for an eternity but there is no work being done, there is a force, but no distance.

conversely, an asteroid travelling through empty space over some window of time is not performing work, because there is no force acting on the asteroid (distance without force)

slowing down this asteroid would involve work because you're changing the momentum of the asteroid.
Title: Re: What is energy, in its simple form?
Post by: ResinRat2 on March 21, 2007, 10:13:53 PM
Sorry, what I should have said was the sum of the forces was zero. The forces being my force(pushing) against the wall and the wall resisting my push. Total of the forces equal to ZERO.

Sorry for the mistake.