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Author Topic: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead  (Read 152767 times)

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2007, 03:38:28 AM »
Great i will keep checking back!

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2007, 10:30:30 PM »
I think I found something new with this cell . In involves close quarters encasement at the tip of the negative electrode . this  holds more hydrogen in the close range that it needs to burn. I am working on this now  as soon as i do a few test to see that it works like it has the first time I will post  the info. 

There may be a need for a swirl pump  I will figure it soon.

I will also post the off the shelf part needed to make this upgrade.

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2007, 04:47:52 AM »
I dont use any electrolyte, Just pure distilled water.

Mine pulls 1.5 amps on full run and heats about 16 gal of water of 170F pretty quick.


Moab;

Ready fopr 20 questions?  LOL

Do you use pure distilled because it is safer?

Is potassium Carbonate dangerous to breathe?

Do you know how much voltage you are using?

Are you heating exactly 16 gallons?  and what is your starting temp?

I am trying to get a feeling for efficiency here because jln claims upwards of 1000 which would make this cheaper than oil to run.  For the price I pay for natural gas it would have to be about 2.6:1 over unity to break even.

------------------------------------------

IH,
Do you have a thread or know anyone else who has a thread anywhere on using tungsten and stainless to generete HHO?   i plan on building this reactor too and am keeping a close eye on what you are doing here. 

Unfortunately since I had some of the stuff laying around the shop I threw together some parrellel stainless and tungsten with the thought of trying HHO because it was cheap, simple, and that video you made rocked my world!  LOL,  and stainless plates are upwards of 200 bucks for me to make compared to the $3.50 that i have invested in this version. 

I do not wish to interupt either thread with my questions if you do not wish to entertain them.  Of course if you are willing to entertain them I could always start a new thread so not to interupt this one or the stainless version.  or am i sort of on my own with this one? 

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2007, 09:29:39 PM »
Plasma reactor
This is not a good way to make HHO as most  of the gas is burned in the reactor.


HHO cell
I do not have a thread on using tungsten in an HHO cell yet. Just build it and use what you learn from other threads . I am covering alot about how to do this. Tungsten is just a material and will work using the same principles as with the SS stuff.

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2007, 05:19:39 AM »
Hey did you see the kid on utube that lights a match over boiling water sticks a jar over the top and gets plasma in his microwave?  It looks sweet not sure how useful it is tho.

i was thinking about that too, that is what you said about swirl pump so i am holding off on buying the stainless filter for a bit.   another thing that might work well is a stanless conveyor belt almost liek a heavy screeen.

Its sort of a perplexing problem because if you want to contain the hydrogen and at the same time not eat the rod that sort of contradicts each other.  what i mean is that a person could circulate the water with a pump and that would help cool the tip but it seems like it would also disturb the hydrogen flow so i am thinking there is a rather narrow limit as to how far one can go with it.  cooing and crowding the plasma at the same time that is.

i will be interested in hearing how this works out and sort of putting mine on the back burner to see your results.

One question however does it matter if the circulating pump is iron and if i use a radiator for forced air heating rather than hydronic?

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2007, 03:51:49 PM »
Iron pump will work if there are no additives to the water ,like KOH ,Sodium based  and so on .Baking soda seems to be ok with a byproduct of CO and CO2.

Also you might think about a small hydrogen burner to increase the efficiency .A one way valve  to orifice injecting HHO into a mesh burner. Does not take much as these temps get very high. If you use baking soda the co and co2 will slow the burn of the HHO to produce a more even heating effect.A cpu water cooling block would work well for this.

Radiator is fine  as that is what I started with an ran a room style heater for many months .
This was a ,b r a s s type heater core radiator with a couple of high speed 120mm PC fans

LOL this server will not let me type the word  B R A S S
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 08:41:06 PM by IronHead »

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2007, 05:48:40 PM »
Iron pump will work if there are no additives to the water ,like KOH ,Sodium based  and so on .Baking soda seems to be ok with a byproduct of CO and CO2.

Also you might think about a small hydrogen burner to increase the efficiency .A one way valve  to orifice injecting HHO into a mesh burner. Does not take much as these temps get very high. If you use baking soda the co and co2 will slow the burn of the HHO to produce a more even heating effect.A cpu water cooling block would work well for this.

Thanks... maybe the best thing to do then is just to get a plastic washing machine centrifigal pump and use that on the cold side.   i was thinking about using a cheap walmar 120 vac box fan and a car radiatoe.   Pipe it through the hot water heater to heat my water then throught the radiator to heat he house.  Unfortunately i have no idea how much or how big to make it to heat the whole house.

Someone said heating 15 gallons in 15 minutes which seems like it would keep 1800 sq ft house warm even in the coldest winter days but i have no data to know this.

Does the size of the tungsten matter?  i can also get 3/16 rods maybe last longer?

If my guesstimates are correct i would have to get roughly a COP of 3 or greater to break even with the cost of natural gas heat.

So you are suggesting burning the fumes then?  i suppose that would be safe to vent then too...

Another thinf that i seen on naudins site is that he has a small capacitor, enough to let high frequency through and he demonstrates how he is lighting a 5 watt bulb with no additional energy drain from the power supply. 

It does not show it directly but i think he is running it between the tungsten and the stainless.

Ok so thats whats on my mind for now :)

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2007, 05:58:14 PM »
You will have  to experiment with this. It is not about how fast you can heat something but  more about how fast you can recover  once heat is lost or transfered from heater to air.The lower the temp when it comes back the harder it is to heat it back up.For the room heater no pump was used . I built the thing like a heatpipe. Put the radiator above the source and it will convect  creating a pump like effect.

If you do this you will have to deal with  venting  gases and still keep positive flow as you would in any system like this .I  think supplemental heating  is what you will end up with. Build one reactor to start  you can always build more and stack them . It is a much better idea than have one huge system. Make it modular.

I would burn the HHO off whether you use this excess or not. Dumping lots of Hydrogen into the air does nothing to solve our pollution problem in the upper atmosphere .

There is another way as well you can build the cell so that the Hydrogen and  oxygen are seperated then bleed of the oxygen and store the hydrogen for other use. DO NOT STORE Hydrogen and Oxygen  together as it is explosive.
Hydrogen with out air or oxygen will not burn.

3/16 rod is fine if its all you have   you will just need to adjust it more often.


Just build it now and it will teach you, start small
IronHead
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 09:06:41 PM by IronHead »

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2007, 09:28:01 PM »
There is a welding supply just a few blocks from me and i can get 3/16, 1/8, 1/16 and one that is like a wire and i am not sure which one would be best. i can get teflon any size and have found a mfg for pourable pottable ceramic that is supposed to hold up to around 2700 degrees that i can mold over the end.   only think i dont like is that they require a 100 dollar min order enough to last me 5 lifetimes LOL

I think i would rather burn the hydrogen to get max efficiency out of it and i am pondering the idea of using it to run a tesla turbine and a generator possibly by boiling wood alcohol which which i chose because it boils at 150 degrees which is the best operating temperature for this unit apparently, then have a cooling system for the wood alchohol that cools just below it boiling temp.

Finally the last stage would be heating the house

So i have big plans if it can work andif i can get a decent COP out of it.  but then maybe i am stretching things a bit.  unfortunately i dont really know what i am doing on this lol

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2007, 09:35:20 PM »
Interesting , So you would just need some  copper tubing coiled up with the reactor water flowing through it at lets say 160*.Then this would be submersed in the alcohol. You should not need a pump for that at all.
This also would be a very good system as far as heat recovery as the return water will  be good and hot.

Tungsten .Get the largest Green tip ones you can find
« Last Edit: July 26, 2007, 09:53:09 PM by IronHead »

keithturtle

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2007, 04:45:54 AM »
Considering the shape of the plasma arc, might it be possible to fashion an elliptical spheriod reaction zone (egg-shaped) outa this stuff here
http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/control/product/~category_id=TWPCAT_SS_Fine/~product_id=100X100T0045W48T
That way the arc would be greater in magnitude, owing to the more consistent distance to the outer field.
I got the sandblast tip but it's 5/32" hole; is that 1/64" gap gonna jump up and bite me? Using 1/8 green tip rod when I get it.   Ain't found any cylindrical screens around these parts yet.
I'd have to buy 12 sq ft of that there screen, so I'll make elliptiod reaction chambers for anyone who wants to pay the freight.  "Turtle Hydrogen reactor parts division"   gots an earthy ring to it, no?


BTW,a lawn mower mishap today led me to a great bulkhead fitting for yer circulator plumbing!  I ran over my sprayer boom and busted the spray nozzle holder/strainer base.   A trip to the tractor store found replacements for $3 USD a pair.   With another nut and a couple rubber washers, these oughta go nicely in the side of the tank to let cooling medium come and go.  Testing to come.

Keith

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2007, 11:52:11 PM »



Found the link for the ceramic potting cement:


Like i said tho it is 100 min order nice temps on them tho.

http://www.associatedceramics.com/insulators.htm





kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2007, 03:38:25 AM »
Considering the shape of the plasma arc, might it be possible to fashion an elliptical spheriod reaction zone (egg-shaped)

i was wondering the same thing, and pondering the feasibility of slowly circulating water downward around the tungsten to both help kool the tip and actually pull the plasma away from the tip just a very little bit if that would not both help kool and create an elliptical patter too?

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2007, 10:22:43 PM »
Paint store  for the screen. Made by Kraco sprayer equipment I posted this back on page one. Sherwinn Williams and Duron stores both have these.

I was working on a similar idea of  moving the water  through a Tungsten tube instead of  solid rod.  At the end of the rod I am using a 1/2" ceramic dish to  flow the water into  causing a curling eddy effect. At first I had a hard time maintaining an arc . but I think I can make it all work out.
I have not been able to work on it but will soon as I can.

keithturtle

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2007, 08:07:03 AM »
I'm headed to SW paint today.  In light of the gap around the rod in the ceramic, could water be pumped in that way?   Lots of projects running simultaneously, and still setting up the lab to boot.   Man, I'm meeting myself coming back...

Wishing I'd act more like a turtle...
Keith