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Author Topic: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead  (Read 152427 times)

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2007, 02:46:52 AM »
Moab:
Good detail. Ok, so this will give you square waves? How do you tune it so you have square waves 50%  21 khz? IronHead's rendering showed a large rectifier too.

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2007, 03:28:21 AM »
I built mine. But you can buy such a devise and use it for our little cell. The tuneing comes after you have a cell housing and a way to pump water through the cell and dissapate the heat. 50% is not the stadard Hz. there are things that come in to play for the final tuneing and opperation if the thing. Heck I'm still tuneing and tweeking. so to say you need 50-50 60-40 yadda-yadda Hz would be assumeing you have a cell built exactly the same.use the same water with the same minerial content. and have the same volume to heat, all of Which by the way will never happen. were not really doing HHO production here.. Now If your talking about a flip flop switch thats a whole bifferent ball game. the reson for the 50/50 flip is to prolong cell life. And in a sense i gess you could argue that it helps break down water. My earlire post will show proof of concept. For me that was enough. So I worked 14+hrs every day for nearly three weeks on the thing. Again I'm not sure what you want to do with it. See a Plasma ball? or build a heater. After builbing it there are some things I would do differently. and will add to the next one, My advise is wait for more input than mine before you start. Others have built it too. They will be along I'm sure.    Moab
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 03:57:18 AM by Moab »

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2007, 03:09:46 PM »
Thanks much Moab. I am after a heater. If it took you nearly a month full time it going to take til Christmas for most people part time. This is why I suggested more specs. Surely now that you "did it" you could reduce the steps down more precisely.
I started out the year looking into working on low voltage ....1.5 electrolysis of water and burning the gas in a ceramic vessel, with one small hole for vacuum, which will get hot and burn into a plasma also. The gas reaches over 5K C so the hydrogen will ionize. This takes 20 amps to start but will run on less.....but probably not 10 watts! You should build one of these, the directions are more precise.
Anyway, the tungsten plasma generator may be more efficient. There needs to be more explanation on the pulsating electronic scheme. If you had to start over, how much less than one month would it take?

keithturtle

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2007, 03:15:38 AM »
Hey MOAB;
can you parallel bridge rectifiers?  I've got 30 amp 1000V ones, enought to bank a few.

Also, can you build SCR's into a bridge?  I've got a handful of those(bigguns) too, but would you need a circuit to fire 'em?

Wishing I'd have paid attention in class,

Turtle

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2007, 01:58:55 PM »
Ironhead:
Can looking at a plasma without eye protection burn your retina? Just a consideration.

kokomoj0

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2007, 04:00:20 PM »
Robb

A fullwave bridge can be had for 9-10 bucks Youll need a 35 amp to start with. Radio shack. Or Ebay. i seen a box of 50. 25 amp bridges for 15 Usd on flea bay. At first this isnt a hard build. Like all things the tuneing can be a bear. Moab



         Lets build it

Hi Moab....

What makes tuning so difficult?  The changes with volume heat and temp ect or just the unit itself?

Does this unit work better with pulsed freq from fets than rectified line power?



IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2007, 09:08:26 PM »
Robb077
No , many studies have been done to show that there is no harmful spectrum of light or radiation coming from a plasma cell
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 10:09:55 PM by IronHead »

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2007, 10:57:31 PM »
Ironhead:
Thanks for the input. Finally getting some interest from an electrical engineer friend. He keeps himself so broke he went to buy bottled LP to keep his gas water heater going since they turned off the gas again. So 5000 watts of electrical heat equivalent for 15 watts got him really interested. LOL

keithturtle

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2007, 11:51:52 PM »
robb077;
Don't get 'im too excited with those numbers... more like 5000 watts heat for 500 watts input, 10:1 return, if I read the first part right
Turtle

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2007, 12:52:40 AM »
How long would it take to build it?

Well that depends on the material you have on hand. I suppose if you had every thing, you could assemble it in 1 day. That wound be a dream build tho.

Looking for a heater.

Ok your gonna need everything from the last page "Small list". And a PWM. Bokoo fittings a gas volume controll a grundfus 3-12Gpm creculation pump. And If you cant weld stainless we'll have to find another way of building your reactor. Somthing off the shelf and cheep. Lemmy see we are going to need atleast 4'' Dia 12'' long and atleast 1/8'' thick and threaded.
 Then we gonna some 4'' Npt plugs. and everything gotta be stainless.

Next if you could find a used radiator out of a car. Its going to need to be clean. Maybe 2.

Ok. next i used a fiberglass heater tank from a RV. It holds 16 gal and is redy built to serve for hot water up to 200 F. This is the water i run throughn the reactor and then i use an aluminium heat excanger. Then i recirc the 16 gal to a 52gal tank then i circulate that into 2000' of Pex. Getting ahead of myself again

Lets start with the cell. What can you find.

Koko. The tuneing is different every time you change rods/screen/or add water. If you dont stay with it and tune it as it heats and recharges She will spit and spudder. maybe even not spark up at all. so after a change out i gotta sit on top of it and watch as she comes back up to temp. Time consumeing. Not really complicated.

Speaking of heat. Your gonna need a limit switch too, I used one thats made for a boiler. Its made by Reem and cost about 10.00 if i remember. and it must have both hi and low cutoff limit. 100-210 degrees F. Google boiler heating, look at the pics and schems. replace the firebox with our little reactor. That is the best way i can explain it with out showing you Pics. Which i will do later. remenber you can scale this bugger way-way up if you wanted to..Back to work for a bit,, Moab.


Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #85 on: June 20, 2007, 01:38:16 AM »
Est cost of build

1 Grundfus pump.                 60.00
1 fiberglass H-W, Rv tank           25.00 (Salvage yard)
1 4''X18" stainless nippel 188wall  32.00
1 limit switch                            10.00
1 DC Pwm. 50amp 1 Khz 600 Khz          Built it so i dontknow Maybe 50.00?
Misc 1'' stainless fittings about    45.00
312. 2''X4'' screen 4 Pak            16.00
1 45 amp Bridge. Out of the junk box 10.00 ?
Misc copper for plumbing            60.00 maybe
Tungston I used 1/4''                 22.00 10 pak
Misc magnetic chokes.Again i built them Maybe 5.00?
Heat exchanger Ebay                  35.00 use a radiator for forced air heat
52 gallon H-W tank  You dont need it if you dont do the floor heat

4  3/4''flow controll valves          32.00 
 Gas volume controll                    7.00 

1/4'' nylon hose for venting gas   5.00   

So you can see there is a good bit to the build. if your going to do it, gather up all the stuff youre going to need. I'm sure i missed some things. Its cheaper than building a conventional boiler. But then again I didnt do it beacuse its cheap. what i learned from the build is priceless. If you go in to it whith that attitude you cant loose.  ;)
Since youre not doing the radient floor heat your build will be a little different, But not much. happy build planing. 8)  Moab.

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2007, 01:48:39 AM »
Thanks Moab for taking this thread, I just don't have the time.
Again thank you.

IronHead

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2007, 02:06:27 AM »
You're welcome Buddy.. Just dont let me make any stupid mistakes. :o. LOL

Koko. On the pulsed vrs rectifyied.. From what i see the rec seems to spark up better. So what i do is let it run on the DC 120hz then after every thing is heated up. I switch to the PWM. This i find works well and also seems to make the screen and rod last longer. The freq +-+-+-Flipped and is between 12 and 27 Khz. It is always different after a change out, like i said. So you need to tune it every time. So they both work. but after she heats up the SQ wave is the way to go for the 14 day run. I'm still learning as i go. So dont think me an expert. :) Just a builder.

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2007, 03:36:08 AM »
The more you work with this cell the more it will teach you.  In the long run it will be simplified as it will show you in time.



Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2007, 04:39:14 AM »
Moab:
Great detail....thanks for the post!