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Author Topic: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead  (Read 152426 times)

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2007, 09:50:45 PM »
50/50 square wave . it will respond to just about any wave form. Just use something you can sweep in real time to tune it.

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2007, 10:05:50 PM »
Great picture. What are you using to pulse the dc?  Have a price on the parts without tubing and radiator? 
Maybe a fish tank will work for the water tank.



DONOT use a fish tank. the glue will melt and youll have a mess. If you want to watch the reaction use a glass jar and run it in small burst to see what you are doing. after you have it tuned your going to need some stainless tubeing I used 5'' 188wall. This keeps all the RF inside the cell and also makes things safer from the stand point of exess heat. I will be posting pics of the thing in a few days. I need another digital camera.

 Happy Building :D

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2007, 11:53:27 PM »
Ironhead:
The recent picture of the stainless steel mess does not look like the earlier posted pics of the paint sprayer tube. What's the difference?

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2007, 12:08:34 AM »
This pic is a rendering so you can see where things go . The mesh  is bigger so you can see the rod is all.This is basic . I am sorry I can not spec this out for you. Just do some experimenting you will find the way starting with this basic setup.

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2007, 03:10:07 PM »
Ironhead:
Thanks for the great rendering. How do you get 30 amps from standard 110 outlet? Confused on how to do this since most circuit breakers are 15-20 amps.

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2007, 05:14:56 PM »
30amps was a cold start up in  this specific cell, once the arc is archived the amps will drop rapidly . Cold was in 40F water in the winter.I can not say if you cell will start at 30 or 10 amps  you have to experiment with this
. If you can not supply start up amps as High as your cell requires then pre heat the water.

 Just build it

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2007, 05:48:47 PM »
thanks. Yep, just build it...working on this trying to get my electrical engineer friend to help, since I don't know much about power supplies, square waves, sine waves or how to tell the difference...not trained on ocilliscopes at all. Just know the idea is workable and you are very practical in your application of the technnology.

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2007, 05:56:10 PM »
Also as Moab has stated do not use  glue of any kind in this cell.
Everything must be hard built and hard wired. Don't put anything in this cell
other than described . A Gummybear could transmute into  the most deadly poison known to man. Well thats a stretch  but you get what I am saying.

We just dont know enough about what turns into what in a cell like this

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2007, 11:29:29 PM »
Ironhead:
Great info. You know where you can get ceramic tubing with 1/8 in inside diameter?
what model for the electrical components? Exact model numbers or specifications on what is needed to "do it". Just an AC rectifier or full DC power supply with all the controls? Sounds like there should be some more detail so I can go to the store and give them a parts list. Maybe from Granger? Maybe you need to be an electrical engineer to know all this clearly.

IronHead

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2007, 11:59:50 PM »
Sandblaster tip works  cover the rest with Teflon tubing. , and just start out with a full bridge rectifier , wire it up and plug the thing right into the 115ac  wall .

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2007, 12:22:27 AM »
Thanks. This is more difficult than you might think for non electrical engineers. Not sure where to buy teflon tubing. Looked up full bridge rectifier on google and didn't get anything to look at specifically. Couldn't really find one for sale. Can you provide more clarity for the layperson? Its not so simple without a technical background.

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2007, 12:43:01 AM »
Ironhead:
Great info. You know where you can get ceramic tubing with 1/8 in inside diameter?
what model for the electrical components? Exact model numbers or specifications on what is needed to "do it". Just an AC rectifier or full DC power supply with all the controls? Sounds like there should be some more detail so I can go to the store and give them a parts list. Maybe from Granger? Maybe you need to be an electrical engineer to know all this clearly.

here is another way.

Go to the hobby store and get some modleing clay. the kind used for makeing ciramic pots and such. .. Now mix the stuff with water untill its like pudding. Dip the tungston rod in it and let it dry. Do this untill it is about 3/8- 1/2 thick. And let it dry completely. Now this is important. you MUST wait untill the wife is NOT in the house for at least 3 hours.. Take your coated rod and put it in the oven and bake it at the highest setting. Give it at least 2 hrs. while this is bakeing build a small kiln from firebricks. You can get them from a hardware store. Next youll need a Mappgass toarch. and a full can of mappgas. preheat the kiln untill its cherry red. time it with the 2 hrs the wife is away..Now the kiln is hotter than the hinges of haities get the rod and gentily slide it in your homade kiln. dont let the flame from the mappgas-torch blast directly on the rod. This takes a few hours and the wife gets real upset if she catches you messing around with the oven this way. Also you should not leave the kiln until the mappgas is gone. get some beer this takes the edge off the waiteing. And makes the ear beating your gonna take easyier when wify gets home. Cause you know damn well she will know you have been messing around in the kitchen.


Shorter version.

No doubt there is a ciramics class, or you know someone who knows someone who fires ciramics. in your town..Dip the rod like i said earlier and let dry. The class will be happy to fire it for you.


(Edit,) you might ask what happens to the Ciramic when the tungston burns away?
Well if you build your cell so the flowing water travels downawrd the nasty stuff falls to the bottom and is out of the way. You will be takeing it apart about every 10-14 days if you plan on useing this as a heat source, So build accordingly. Also when you get the tungston it comes in a 10 pack. may as well coat them all at the same time. you'll need them.

BTW @Robb077 I'm no EE. i just build things. And this was one of the more fun builds i did in 2006. And it works really well.
                                                        Build it   Moab.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 01:29:44 AM by Moab »

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2007, 12:48:29 AM »
Robb

A fullwave bridge can be had for 9-10 bucks Youll need a 35 amp to start with. Radio shack. Or Ebay. i seen a box of 50. 25 amp bridges for 15 Usd on flea bay. At first this isnt a hard build. Like all things the tuneing can be a bear. Moab



         Lets build it

Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2007, 01:49:36 AM »
Moab:
Great explanation and detail. Yes, I know places to fire ceramics. Ok, lets say you buy a full wave 25 amp bridge. Might use hot water to help get it started like IronHead suggested, requiring less amperage.
How do you tune the bridge to get the required frequency? Not at all familiar with this. They come with a dial? You need an osillocope?

Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2007, 02:28:51 AM »
Well first what are your intentions for this devise? if your going to use it as a heater youll need more stuff.

A fullwave Bridge simply turns 60Hz AC into 120Hz DC no tuneing requiord.

Ok a small list Because Ironhead alredy said he cant speck it out for you.

Fullwave bridge rec 25 amp or better  ( To get you started )

A Varyac   50 amp             (Nice to have but not needed for your first cell)


Some tungston       (the greentip )

312 screen. 2''X4-6''  ( the stuff made for airless sprayers)


Some clip leads  # 12 lizt 18'' long ( youll need a bunch like 4 or more later)


A 120V male wall plug.  (Groung optional. A bridge only has 2 ~ inputs)

You can use any wall plug #12 wire or bigger

a 1/2 gallon glass jar with atleast a 4'' opening


put some clips on the wire from the plug on the end your gonna hook to your bridge. The little ~ on the bridge is whare the AC power goes in ~ means sign wave BTW.
Use an insolated block or somthing non conductive to hold the rod verticle in the jar so it DONT MOVE!

Place the 312 screen inside the jar centered. and put a cliplead on it to the +side of bridge. fill with hot water and place the T rod in side the screen centered. Hook that to the - side of bridge.. Now, the wall plug is on the two ~ and the +/- of the bridge is wired as i said to the rod and the screen. Now your redy to test.

I'm not fimilliar with your building ability. most of the guys on this forum are awesome builders. If your not, you may want to start smaller. Our Mr Ironhead builds far beyond the abilities of most people. (Trust me on that one) Also Be warned! this cell is not for the careless. Cool as it may be.  Think before you start. There is no kit, No PDF, No How to. As IH said NO spek sheet. The above is as close as it gets. (so far)   Moab.