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Author Topic: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead  (Read 148368 times)

Offline Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #120 on: July 01, 2007, 09:45:29 PM »
Moab:
You made this comment ealier:
"use a glass jar and run it in small burst to see what you are doing. after you have it tuned your going to need some stainless tubeing I used 5'' 188wall. This keeps all the RF inside the cell and also makes things safer from the stand point of exess heat"

What are you doing with the tubing and why do we need to be concerning about RF? You also said to choke the 110 ac for RF. Not understanding what the RF does.


oK. use a jar untill you get a nice burn. run it in short runs because it will get real hot real quick.

Ok assumeing that we now have a nice burn. we're redy to start to use the heat.

This is where the SS tubeing comes in to play. It is the vessell that houses the plasma cell. and recirculates the water from the heat exchanger in a buigger 52 gallon tank.. Now the thing when its running will cause RF interfearence on TVs PCs radios and even speakers that are in cloce proximity to the cell. the thicker wall SS tubeing helps keep that RF emissions to a minimum and also keeps the noise down. ,,

Understand?.. :) Moab

Offline Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #121 on: July 01, 2007, 09:53:54 PM »
Hey guys just for testing can I just use a 6010 or 6011 stick welding rod (instead of tungsten for now)...has the coating on it already?

the Flux on the welding rod will desolve, But hey it would be interesting to see how long it last.6010 rod  60000lbs PSI shear striength. 10 PPM carbon. Its Mild steel.

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #122 on: July 01, 2007, 10:18:15 PM »
Moab:
Not so clear. Are you saying to use stainless steel tubing to circulate the water from the vessel to the heat exchanger (radiator maybe) ? The RF interference comes from the water being circulated? I would think the RF would come from the plasma and could not be reduced by using stainless steel tubing to carry the hot water.

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #123 on: July 02, 2007, 04:20:47 PM »
How to choke the RF for non-electricians ;D

Offline rapttor

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #124 on: July 02, 2007, 06:32:24 PM »
How to choke the RF for non-electricians ;D

Good one Robb.. sometimes you have to include silly pic's for the layman to follow along at home...


-rapttor

Offline Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2007, 03:36:23 PM »
How to choke the RF for non-electricians ;D


The SS tubeing is the housing around the cell. It takes the place of the jar in the testing phase. water flows through this cell to a heat exchanger in a bigger tank. Yes Robb0 you are correct. The RF is from the spark (Plasma) It will mess with TV's and radios. ;) Moab.

PS Nice chickin

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2007, 04:17:59 PM »
Moab:
Still confused  Are you saying the "tubing" is now the vessel for the plasma? what is the diameter? What is the bottom made of?
What tubing are you using to pump the water?

Offline hkyle

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2007, 04:25:09 PM »
hey guys does it need to be a stainless steel screen for the + side or can it be a ss plate or a pipe. I was at the farm this weekend and picked up a slick unit that will allow me to slide the Rod in / out without opening up the cell. Seems to work for that purpose but was thinking about the screen. Over at JLNlabs they don't have a screen surrounding the tungsten rod and it seemed to work. I was also thinking that maybe I could use a SS tube for the + side and have the rod in the middle of that, so the Tube would be replacing the screen and having the water flow right past or through the plasma.

what do you guys think?

I will post a pic when I get a chance.

kyle

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2007, 06:52:00 PM »
Ironhead:
Since you helped Moab build his, maybe you can explain what the ss tubing is used for. Maybe a rendering would clear it up easily. ;D
Is Moab using a vessel made of ss or just the pipes to carry off the water to the pump? Sounds like he is not using glass.

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2007, 10:23:50 PM »
Moab:
Maybe you have a big coil of stainless steel tubing around the plasma inside a 50 gallon fiberglass tank. Is this the setup?

Offline Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #130 on: July 04, 2007, 01:50:56 AM »
OK. Thick-time.....

1=2X4 ss screen INSIDE 5''X 18''long SS tubeing capped top and bottom
2=Inside 2X4 screen 1/4'' tungston with 1/4 3/8'' exposed the oher is covered by ciramic.

Now the water AKA headed fluid circulates around the screen as it goes threw the 5" SS houseing, and to a heat exchanger in a bigger tank. YOU wont neen the bigger tank UNLESS you have radient floor heat.

Kyle. Thetube will work BUT you'll have to slow down the flow of Heateing fluid (Water) as it goes through the plasma chamber. because if the flow is too great the plasma cannot keep up to the flow and the plasma goes out,.( Counter productive) for a heat source. Then you'll be pulling high amps as the temp builds up to about 155F. where it can make a plasma ball again.

Furthermore..
 Ironhead only pointed me in this direction. I built it on my own with out help of any kind.!(You guys got far more than i did when i started) If Mr. Ironhead has the time and the need to explain it again. Maybe he will do a rendering. I did it without one. ( I'm sure it could be built better Thats where you guys come in) lets bring on the ideas guys!!   Ok?.

listen guys this is easyier than you are makeing it. Just get a bridge rectifyer and try to make a plasma ball in a jar. Youll see what needs to be done after that. And you wont need a rendering , Or anyone to tell you how to build it.

Untill the camera the wife bought from flea-bay gets here or untill Ironhead makes you a rendering. build it in your mind. its cheap andyou can change what ever you want on the fly.. Just my .02 ;) Moab.   :)

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #131 on: July 04, 2007, 02:04:09 AM »
Moab:
Thanks alot for the detail and about over circulating the water. Guess you can't see your plasma at all,(maybe a plexiglass top).. being covering top and bottom. Ok, proceeding to put the parts together in one week or so for a first burn.
Guess your pump must run all the time or the 5 x 18 would heat up real quick I would think. Anyway, nice to know what works for low wattage.
Thanks much.

Offline Moab

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #132 on: July 04, 2007, 02:24:03 AM »
Robb0'
I can tell when the plasma is sparking. I have a lexon 1'' plug hear the bottom of the cell in the 5'' stainless houseing.

the recirc pump only runs when the temp gets to about 170 or so the limit setting is near 200. on the high end and off again under 150. I use about or near because these switched are only that accurate..
Yes when its running the first stage to the heat exchanger runs almost the whole time the cell is "Sparked up" it dont take long for the 16 gal of water to cool down.

on the secondary recirc the limit is set to 70 on the low end and 93 or so onthe high end. If the secondary temp is at 80 or higher the plasma cell wont run untill its 70 or lower.

 This gets us in to the boiler apect of the cell and is really a known science for the application that i am doing here. for you guys that are going to use a forced air heat through a heater core of some kind your limits will be higher of course. Probably 155 on the low end and no more than 200 on the high. its going to depend on how much fluid you plan on keeping at this temp. and for howlong of a run you can manage before the celll gets burned. this would bring us back to tuneing, short runs and lots of cooldown time for the cell. so you can make the cell last as long as possible between maintainance. you will be doing maintainance. its the nature of this beast.. sorry.      Moab

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #133 on: July 04, 2007, 03:22:50 AM »
Great detail helps understanding!

Sounds like your cell can start and stop on its own without adjusting all the time. Nice. I was thinking at first it ran all the time, but now see it can turn off and start again without human intervention.

Nice setup!

Offline Robb077

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Re: Plasma Electrolysis by IronHead
« Reply #134 on: July 04, 2007, 03:31:06 AM »
For those without a heat pump setup, an alternative to a radiator
Moab needs to advise best size holding tank ;D