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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: eavogels on February 24, 2007, 04:13:07 PM
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Dual Piston Device.
I have done experiments with shieldig of repelling magnets by inserting thin plates of iron between them. When the iron is thin enough, the repelling magnets stop repelling and are not holding the shield too tight.
I have a simulation on my web site: http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice/default.asp (http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice/default.asp) to see timing and placement of levers. This device will give a change to test with differrent shields and shield shapes.
Eric.
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Will your simulation work if you instead of using only one solid metal shield, use two or three parallel thin metallic shields with a small air gap space in between the thin metal shields? Using layers of shields makes a more effective magnetic shield.
Like this: _____________
_____________
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Will your simulation work if you instead of using only one solid metal shield, use two or three parallel thin metallic shields with a small air gap space in between the thin metal shields?
Your reply made me realise that I forgot to tell an important information about the simulation. I only simulated motion, not forces. I just simulated how I had to place the crank and the levers, in order to let the shield move at the right time, with the right speed. One can adjust a lot by just making a lever a bit longer or shorter.
The simulation does not include magnetic forces since I don't know how to do that. So the shield with the parallel path is certainly a shape that have to be tested.
Eric.
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I found a device that is based on the same principle.
See the attached clip. I hope I can get it split into seperat pictures.
Eric.
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Who made this device? Can you post a link?
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the video is good but it's maybe a big hoax with hided battery inside the big wood block
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First of all let's see who made this device and where it's displayed. Of course, it has to be independently reproduced to verify it's a genuine self-sustaining machine.
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I found a clip on youtube, quality was not too good since the video was made with a cell phone.
The device was shown at the Kunstlaber Augsburg in 2004
If the filmer remember right it was done by some professor that was sick and tired of not seeing anything like this anywhere, even though the technology has been there for quite some time....
The filmer has not Free Energy interest so I could get more info.
Perhaps a German member can find out more about this German event?
The reason I'm interested is that the mechanical setup can help me with my device. Even though I couldn't find anyone interested, my small hand held test tells me that there is a potential in the dual piston device.
Perhaps I need to build 2 constructions with pisons, on both sides of the flywheel. I'm still convinced that all movement has to be synchronized with as less parts as possible.
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So, this is again claimed to be simply a sculpture, as is Finsrud's Perpetuum Mobile, isn't it? Because Science is uncomfortable with such experiments all this passes for 'art'. Who is the 'artist' anyway? Can anyone shed some more light on this? How come no one paid any attention to that device, especially those from the overunity crowd?
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I have no answers. I don't have the intention to defend the clip either. I just found it and shared it. I thought it was a good idea to post the clip since I saw a connection with my own device.
Eric.
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That's great that you found this clip. I was just wondering how it has remained unnoticed until now. If that's genuine that will be it. It is the best self-sustaining device I've ever seen. Hope we don't get disappointed again.
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I found a device that is based on the same principle.
See the attached clip. I hope I can get it split into seperat pictures.
Eric.
wow this looks amazing! (http://hackersclub.net/unity/e107_images/emotes/default/joy.gif)
thanks for sharing
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That's great that you found this clip. I was just wondering how it has remained unnoticed until now. If that's genuine that will be it. It is the best self-sustaining device I've ever seen. Hope we don't get disappointed again.
I don't think there is any claim or pretense of over-unity or self-sustaining with this device. To the contrary, it appears that the center shaft and wheel are powered by an outside source.
Peter
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I don't think there is any claim or pretense of over-unity or self-sustaining with this device. To the contrary, it appears that the center shaft and wheel are powered by an outside source.
Peter
That isn't evident. Only closer inspection can prove this conjecture. First things first, however. Who is the constructor of this device and how can one get in touch with him?
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I don't think there is any claim or pretense of over-unity or self-sustaining with this device. To the contrary, it appears that the center shaft and wheel are powered by an outside source.
Peter
That isn't evident. Only closer inspection can prove this conjecture. First things first, however. Who is the constructor of this device and how can one get in touch with him?
If over-unity is not claimed by the builder, then the only conjecture is on your part.
Peter
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Very interesting ... here is the original source of the video ...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1140015933
Maybe some one would like to "gently" connect him about the details of what he wittnessed, and maybe he know who was inventor/builder.
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If over-unity is not claimed by the builder, then the only conjecture is on your part.
Peter
What is important is what the machine does not what anyone claims. Besides, how do you know what the constructor claims? Who is the constructor, anyway?
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Lately I started to expect that my construction was not strong enough for the forces and unfourtunately I was right with that. Last night, hen I had my magnets sliding, I inserted a piece of metal between them. The flywheel made a quick spin and I didn't manage to pull the shield away fast enough. The connection between the lever and the magnet broke (made of wood).
Okay, back to the drawing board (and the mill).
Eric.
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Very interesting ... here is the original source of the video ...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1140015933
Maybe some one would like to "gently" connect him about the details of what he wittnessed, and maybe he know who was inventor/builder.
I have contacted him today. Hopefully I'll get an answer some time.
Btw, it was seen at the Augsburger Kunstlabor 2005...
Br.
Vidar
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I also contacted the person from MySpace but he replied that he doesn't know who built it. He has taken the video with his cellphone at what he calls Lab30 2004 and suggested to contact the people from the Abraxas theater in Augsburg.
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Here is a link with more from the Lab30 Festival which this person sent me:
http://www.archive.org/details/lab30nov2004ErwanPottierEnglishdemompg
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The email address of the woman that organized the exhibition is
kulturbuero.projekte@aug.de
Perhaps a German member can contact her and ask who's device it was?
Eric.
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i have added this principle to my own wheel except it is a little different. what do you guys think?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,894.msg27138.html#msg27138
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I made some progress with building. Allthough not many people are positive about this device, I think it gets better and better every time I come a little step further. On the picture I have the magnets in place and I feel the forces. The hiding of the magnets behind an inserting piece of iron is going to work. I just hope that the forces of the 2 magnets attracted to the iron in the middle, is enough to draw the iron back. My manual tests are giving hope, because as long as the iron shield is not in contact with the magnets, sliding is not at all impossible. We'll see, I'm getting ready for the next step: making a crank.
Eric (not giving up)
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Nice. I'm not sure if I understand the idea, but I believe you're using iron to shield the magnetic force (?). If you can be able to balance the amount of iron, and its distance to the magnets, to balance the force and counterforce best possible, and the release the magnetic repulsion (*By some how reducing the amount of iron between the magnets) at the right timing - if you understand what i mean.
*An iron wheel with different thickness is rotating between the repelling magnets, to balance repulsion between the magnets, with the attraction to the iron, untill the magnets are on its way apart again, then there is NO iron between them, and there is a repulsion at the right time.
Br.
Vidar
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Yes, you got the idea. The iron 'shield' is changing the field from repelling to attracting, during the time it is inserted between the magnets on the pistions.
I did experiment with shield made from nails. Putting more nails in a specific place changed the 'density' of the shield so the sum of attracting and repelsion became almost zero.
I plan to make the device such a way that I easely can test different kind of shielding.
Eric.
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@All
Just to let you know. A couple of weeks ago I wrote an e-mail to Ms. Julia H?ther from Abraxas Theater in Augsburg (abraxas.stadt@augsburg.de) asking her for the name of the constructor of the device in http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8Rv7gNKns and how he can be contacted. I only got a reply that they have received my e-mail. I haven't received anything else since. Has anyone (Stefan or someone else from Germany) tried to contact the Theater for details about tha constructor of that device.
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More progress.
I still feel positive about it, although I'm a bit afraid for the friction in my too cheap sliding bearings.
Eric.
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After watching the video a number of times it looks to be driven from a sewing machine belt at the end on the center shaft. If you look closely just as the video ends you can see what looks like a belt that comes out of the box.
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That is possible, after all, it was an exhibition, but not an exhibition for free energy.
But I can asure you that I'm not going to use hidden forces in my experiment.
Eric.
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Here is a photo and a video of another replication of the believe motor. This set-up didn't work.
One of the (significent) differences between the believe motor and my dual piston device is that the believe motor has the shield moving at one speed, while the levers in the dual piston device have most force, when it is needed: during pull back.
Eric.
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Well that prototype has its timing all messed up, and way to much extra drag. The timing is no where near the timing of the other video.
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The constructor of the "believe motor" has to be contacted for details about his machine, including timing. As I said in a previous posting, I wrote to the gallery in Augsburg where the motor has been on display but the only reply I got was that they have received my message. Couldn't someone, especially our German friends, get in touch with these people and find out who the contructor is and where to find him. Stefan, couldn't you do it? I guess everyone would be very grateful if you could. Thanks.
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Sorry,
I didn?t read this thread earlier.
I will try to contact this exhibition guys.
Can you please send me the phone number you had of them by email ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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@Stefan,
Here's a link with contact info:
http://www.augsburg.de/Seiten/augsburg_d/kultur/abraxas/abraxas_u/infos/
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The timing on the 1st motor had the magnets closest just as the end of the metal plate was passing their center point, which allowed the pull on the plate to degrade easier as the plate continued out of the field and the magnets backed off. The workmanship on the prototype looks top notch. With a few adjustments they can get it to its highest efficiency, which might or might not yield results. Like I said I am fairly certain I could see pulleys off the end of the center shafts with belts on them, that might have been for a flywheel underneath the box, or an electric motor. The system was gear reduced so who knows.
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Well that prototype has its timing all messed up, and way to much extra drag. The timing is no where near the timing of the other video.
I ask the builder about the timing and this is what he answered:
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In my opinion the timing as it currently is is indeed not optimal, but certainly not completely messed up.
The reason why the motor doesn't run as I see it is because it costs too much energy to withdraw the plate from the magnetic field.
I tried timing my prototype as in the movie but now the motor shows the worst results.
Why?
-when the plate is at the center of the magnets when the magnets are at their closest position, it costs the maximum power that can build up in the machine to withdraw the plate from the magnetic field which is now the strongest.
-even when the plate has just passed the magnets there is still atraction from the magnets to the plate.
For this reasons it is necessary to time the magnets a bit later.
The extra drag is completely adjusable and can be removed completely, so the plate would be the only drag left (without the circles around it).
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Regards,
Eric.
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I just called Ms. H?ther there and she was not aware of this device, but said, that she only works two years there and they have many expositions. was there any date posted, when this device was shown ? Then she could look it up.
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Okay, the inventor is:
www.svenhahne.de from Cologne, Germany.
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Hi All, I just called him on his mobile phone and he said, it was a fake. It was an Art-project and thus the title, The Belive-machine....
He used a hidden accu for powering it.He will soon come to this forum and post more infos, as he did it as a thesis work to try out alternative energy in the first place.
Regards, Stefan.
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stephen, very prompt and thorough leg work. As far as the protoytpe I would suggest that the magnets be closest when there is only half of the plate between them, and most of the plate has already past the magnet, and for kicks one might try a bit of bismuth at the end of the plate to help release the steel from the field of the mag. Just a thought.
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Here is a PDF. It's a long document and only the last 3 pages are about the believe machine.
But since we now know it's a fake, so this info won't help. Back to the Dual Piston Device again.
Eric.
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@eavogels,
Where does it say in the document (the pdf you attached) that it's a fake?
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@eavogels,
Where does it say in the document (the pdf you attached) that it's a fake?
Well, 2 messages earlier in this thread Stfan wrote that he talked with the builder personally by phone, and the man told him it was powered with a battery and just made as artwork.
Eric.
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Not that I don't trust Stefan but I want to hear this from the constructor himself. The text you posted reminds me a lot of Finsrud. He says almost the same things as in the text you posted. And yet at other times you can hear him say other things too. He won't let you dismantle the device and verify what's in it just like this fellow here and yet he denies there is a hidden motor. The same way this guy seems to deny it in his written statement. Finsrud was telling me that if someone says it's a perpetuum mobile he'll deny it but if someone says it's not a perpetuum mobile he'll deny it too. Go figure. All these guys come across as frightened as hell. What has scared them so much beats me.
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guns usually scare people. I not saying that is what happened. But they usually will scare people.
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Status: All levers and bearings are installed. I have the movement I want. Now I
have to add a slider bearing to the shield. One slider bearing at the bottom is
too weak: I need a slider on top as well, so that the shield slides in between
two rails. I also made a little 'shield mount' so that I can make and test
several shield shapes and materials.
Vision: Although I'm still in the process of constructing, just to try how a
shield will perform, I'm already thinking about the DualPistonDevice MK II
In that version I want to replace most (all?) of the sliding bearing with levers
(or discs, not decided yet) with a mounted pivot point. I want to get rid of the
sliding elements but I still want to take advantage of the fact that levers can
controle the speed and the timing of the shield insertion.
Regards,
Eric.
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Here is what I plan to do, to replace the sliders.
Eric
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have you thought about laying this horizontally to nullify gravitational effects.....just a thought.
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looks interesting, lets see what happens
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have you thought about laying this horizontally to nullify gravitational effects.....just a thought.
Yes, from the beginning it was supposed to be horizontal. But since I used this type of gliders under the magnets, the magnets were 'hanging' on the cariages and the presure of the lever was against the rail. OR: the magnets were standing on the glider and the lever was pushing the cariage to the side of the wheel. Both situation gave lots of extra friction. I needed the weight of the magnets AND the pressure of the levers into the same direction: pressing onto the rail and therefor the direction of gravitation. That is why the model is almost vertical now.
Eric.
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An update:
I tried my first shield and I discovered two things:
1. My shield was mounted too low. It went down too much and the magnets repelled where the should attract. Result: wrong direction of the fly wheel.
2. I need to find a better way to keep the shiled straight between the magnets. Now I have 2 parallel glider but tuning them 100% parallel is very time consuming. And this tuning has to be done every time I change shield.
Conclusion so far:
a.Attaction and repelling forces are very strong but easy to control with the linear bearings.
b.The current way the shield is mounted gives too much friction but the new shield holder will save this.
ToDo:
a.Building a new shield holder
b.Mounting the shield higher
c.Making the shield thicker. Repelling forces are passing a shield that is too thin.
Regards,
Eric.
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Hello, (I'm new here)
I've been trying to do something similar 2 years ago, but I dismissed when I realized that the magnetic field was passing through the iron (nearly?) without any loss of power.
But then reading this topics I got an idea base on the statement that it's maybe possible to find the balance between attraction (to iron) and repulsion of the magnet(N<-->N). But this balance is not only depending to the exact moment where the shield is removed, but also to :
- the distance between the iron plate <--> magnet
- and the distance between the magnet when the iron is in the middle!
So, actualy, I think that the iron plate has to be removed from the path of the magnet at the exact moment where the attraction repulsion is balanced. Not when the magnet is very close to the metal... because the power is proportional to the ^3 of the distance. So if the magnet get to close to the metal, there is no way that the repulsion between the magnet manage to compensate...
Plus, I would use 2 large magnet (not only powerfull ones) because the distance the force is affecting is proportional...
Let me know if it help! :)
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Something else, when the shield try to go up, the two magnet are pulling it... so why don't fix two other magnet over the shield, like in this pic? The idea is that these two fixed magnet could annulate the strength needed to take the shield out of the (piston) magnet path...
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:D???I have an idea that may connects Steorn device with dual piston device.
At Steorn Low Energy Magnet Actuator device , if in front of each magnet at outside of shield, we put another magnet in repulsion mode, when the shield moved, the magnet that will be pushed because then shield is removed and magnetic field appear. Thus we obtain a lot of energy with the low actuator
Please see picture and: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ME6dnwtbBE4
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Something else, when the shield try to go up, the two magnet are pulling it... so why don't fix two other magnet over the shield, like in this pic? The idea is that these two fixed magnet could annulate the strength needed to take the shield out of the (piston) magnet path...
Thanks for you 2 advices. I'm going to test that.
Regards,
Eric
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:D???I have an idea that may connects Steorn device with dual piston device.
Thanks, this is also a very nice idea. I must get rid of the friction first and while I'm redoing the design, I will take all the good ideas in consideration.
Regards,
Eric.
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;DI I have evidence that initially Steorn Orbo steorn magnet low actuator device, reading steorn web:
?Technical Specifications
Orbo is based upon the principle of time variant magneto-mechanical interactions. The core output from our Orbo technology is mechanical. This mechanical energy can be converted into electrical energy using standard generator technology either by integrating such technology directly with Orbo or by connecting the mechanical output from Orbo to the generation technology. The efficiency of such mechanical/electrical conversions is highly dependent on the components used and is also a function of size.
Orbo technology is subject to continuous development. This development is focused on improving the manufacturability of the technology, production costs and power density. Orbo was initially developed as using stop-start mechanisms (with a power density of 0.5 Watts per cm3), Steorn is currently finalizing the development of constant motion systems and a significant improvement in power density is anticipated.
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I believe that initially Steorn Orbo was basted on magnet low actuator device, in the way to dual magnet piston, becouse reading steorn web:
?Technical Specifications
Orbo is based upon the principle of time variant magneto-mechanical interactions. The core output from our Orbo technology is mechanical. This mechanical energy can be converted into electrical energy using standard generator technology either by integrating such technology directly with Orbo or by connecting the mechanical output from Orbo to the generation technology. The efficiency of such mechanical/electrical conversions is highly dependent on the components used and is also a function of size.
Orbo technology is subject to continuous development. This development is focused on improving the manufacturability of the technology, production costs and power density. Orbo was initially developed as using stop-start mechanisms (with a power density of 0.5 Watts per cm3), Steorn is currently finalizing the development of constant motion systems and a significant improvement in power density is anticipated
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Thanks, this is also a very nice idea. I must get rid of the friction first and while I'm redoing the design, I will take all the good ideas in consideration.
Regards,
Eric.
Any more work done here?
Don't forget to use a heavy flywheel to store the energy around the cycle.
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I think the only flaw is that it takes more energy for the shield to move away from the magnets than move into them, since both magnets are closer to the shield when it is leaving.
If you can make it so the energy required to move away from the magnets is the same as moving towards them, then you might have a perpetual motion device. But the movement of the shield needs to somehow be connected to the movement of the magnets, so the shield movements are overall cancelled out. Then it should work!
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Any more work done here?
Don't forget to use a heavy flywheel to store the energy around the cycle.
Yes, I did some more work now and created Version 2 of the Dual Piston Device.
All sliding bearings are replaced with rotating parts and a heavy flywheel is added.
The weak point of version 1 was all the friction that build up by the sliders.
What still has to be solved is that the plexiglass wheel, with the half moon shaped steel plate in it, must make a bigger 'back and forward'-swing the the 180 degrees it is doing now.
Eric
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I added a movie to YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFT1Ze6igI
Eric
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Here is the problem/question in a drawing.
I need to move the lever quickly 2 times, during one rotation of the flywheel. When a point on the flywheel i at the bottom, the level has to come up, and when the point is at the top, the lever needs to go down.
The video that was model for the drawing is here again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFT1Ze6igI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFT1Ze6igI)
Eric
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It's not pretty, but it's an idea of how it can be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAabZ5yq0x0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAabZ5yq0x0)
Eric.
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Looks very ingenious all that....
Hopefully you will continue...
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Hopefully you will continue...
Yes, I have already plans for model 3.
(I think that the notification email for this forum is not working anymore. Since a while I do not receive anything anymore.)
I'm going to use a 'geneva drive' for the insertion of the shield. I couldn't upload a picture here, but it's on my site: http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice (http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice)
Eric.