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Author Topic: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic  (Read 80153 times)

Offline Kator01

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #165 on: December 23, 2008, 03:36:04 PM »
Hello pequaide,

can you please be more precise as this link is just the main-entry. What section are you refering to ?

Regards

Kator01

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Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #166 on: December 24, 2008, 05:55:11 PM »
Sorry; when you use favorites you forget, all the sub groups. It would be BesslerWheel.com, (in my search it was the top choice) after that opens go to discussion groups, then general discussion, then ‘energy producing experiments’ (author pequaide).

Of specific interest to me is NASA’s yo-yo de-spin device. I knew this had been proposed to NASA but I did not know that they actually used it. Also of interests is that they could not get the math right, and adequate performance evaded them, and thus they dropped the procedure from their list of things to do. (my interpretation)

And possibly of interest to others is that I am shifting to more massive machines with bearings. To produce useful quantities of energy you will have to make use of bearings.

Thanks for your interest.   

Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #167 on: January 03, 2009, 03:28:40 AM »
This is a 3400 grams spinning wheel that can be stopped with a 456 grams disk as it swings out on the white string. The white disk has a mass well over 200 g (guessing) but every thing stops spinning just as soon as the gray disk swings out. What form of motion is conserved? 

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #167 on: January 03, 2009, 03:28:40 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #168 on: January 03, 2009, 03:54:42 AM »
I don't quite understand. Can you post a video of the action?

Offline zerotensor

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #169 on: January 03, 2009, 06:25:12 AM »
This is a 3400 grams spinning wheel that can be stopped with a 456 grams disk as it swings out on the white string. The white disk has a mass well over 200 g (guessing) but every thing stops spinning just as soon as the gray disk swings out. What form of motion is conserved? 

To model the dynamics of this kind of set-up, one can start with the well-verified assumption that total angular momentum is conserved.  Since the small mass changes its position, the moment of inertia varies as a function of time.  The resulting differential equations are therefore nonlinear, so numerical approximation methods (stepwise simulation) would probably work best for modeling this system's dynamics in detail.  Otherwise, just looking at the total angular momentum at the start and at the end should yield a rough equality, (with a small amount wasted to friction and such...)

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #169 on: January 03, 2009, 06:25:12 AM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #170 on: January 03, 2009, 04:35:37 PM »
I think the size of the drive wheel eliminates the possibility of angular momentum conservation.

First; when the small gray disk has stopped the white disk and drive wheel it is not rotating around the center bearings of the white disk, it is (instantaneously) rotating around a point on the circumference of the (stopped) white disk. This may be hard to envision so I will allow you to believe that the gray disk is rotating about the center bearing of the white disk, which is impossible because the white disk is stopped.

The white disk has a radius of 3.5 inches. The gray disk has swung or flared out about 3.5 inches (from previous experiments and visual observation) when the white disk and drive wheel are stopped. This gives you about 7.0 inches for the radius of the flared out gray disk and the radius of the larger drive wheel is 9 inches. The effective rotational inertia of the wheel is about 30% inside its circumference so the radius of rotation of the drive wheel and the flared out gray mass are roughly similar. This should make this arrangement behave very differently than when all the mass is in the white disk, an experiment which has been done many many times. But the behavior of the two experiments is the same. Moderate motion of the wheel is turned into violent motion in the gray disk; the gray disk pulls loose from the white disk and slams into the back wall. 

Let me ask you two questions.      What if I replace the 18 inch drive wheel with a 1 meter drive wheel that has it mass concentrated near the rim?   

What happens if I replace the 18 inch drive wheel with a similar mass sled on a bearing track?   

Offline Kator01

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #171 on: January 03, 2009, 08:10:59 PM »
Hello pequaide,

this is an interesting setup.
Just one question : The drive-wheel is the vertical running wheel on the right side ?
And motion is transferred to the white plastic-wheel via the red rope ? So the axis of both wheels are perpendicular to each other, is that so ?

Now if you have this experiment that far it should be not to complicated to establish a speed-meter for measuring
the gray disc and calculate its kinetic energy.

If I would be in your position I would not argue with others about angular-momentum but concentrate on speed-measurements.


Good luck

Kator01

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #171 on: January 03, 2009, 08:10:59 PM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #172 on: January 05, 2009, 12:54:06 PM »
It is red ribbon; and you are correct on other points.

Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #173 on: January 07, 2009, 12:09:52 AM »
Sometimes I have access to my computer but I am not in the lab, so let me continue to argue against angular momentum conservation (in the lab).

An average size new construction home could be installed with a seven meter rim mass wheel.  The cylinder or white disk could be .25 meters (dia.). So, according to the angular momentum conservationists, the thrown gray disk could then be given all the “angular momentum” of the seven meter rim. Wow, you could launch bullets.

The angular momentum formula states that a 100 kg rim with a circumference velocity of 1 m/sec and having a radius of 3.5 meters will have seven times as much angular momentum as a 100 kg rim with a circumference velocity of 1 m/sec and having a radius of .5 meters.

Angular momentum conservation would require this sequence of events. When all the motion of the seven meter rim has been given to the gray disk (corresponding to the above pictured experiment) in paragraph two and the disk has a mass 1/10th that of the seven meter rim, then the gray disk will have to have a velocity 140 times larger than the original velocity of the seven meter rim. 

I am expecting little league baseball speeds not bullet speeds, but ha who am I to complain.

As far as collecting data from the above experiment, that is always the objective of a good experiment. But the data has already been collected. There is a substantial quantity of data collected from the cylinder and spheres. The experiment with the detached wheel and connecting ribbon only shows that the rotating mass need not be contained in the cylinder, and of course that the radius of the rotating mass has no effect upon the ultimate velocity of the final mass in motion. All data collected from the cylinder and spheres experiment shows that linear Newtonian momentum is conserved and that energy has been made in the laboratory. The external wheel and red ribbon experiment points to even more useful applications.   

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #173 on: January 07, 2009, 12:09:52 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #174 on: January 07, 2009, 01:41:15 PM »
I don't quite understand. Can you post a video of the action?

Yes, please post a video or more pictures from each step by step
and post a better planation what is going on.

This needs to be documented on video.

Many thanks.

Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #175 on: January 08, 2009, 03:59:43 AM »
Drive wheel, White disk with embedded gray disk, will explain later.

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #175 on: January 08, 2009, 03:59:43 AM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #176 on: January 08, 2009, 11:37:48 PM »
In the picture of the white disk you will see a white nylon cord attached to the gray disk. The cord was fastened using a slip knot and secured to the gray puck with gray duck tape. As the system begins spinning the gray puck tries to leave the system on a line tangent to the white disk.  The white nylon cord tries to prevent the gray disk from leaving the system and soon all the motion is in the gray disk.

The experiment is arranged so that the spinning motion of the 18 inch drive wheel is transferred to the white disk on the table. The red ribbon combines the momentum of the drive wheel to the momentum of the white disk. The white disk is horizontally mounted and has a mass of 485 grams. The velocity at the circumference times its mass (which is distributed throughout the disk) gives it a rotational momentum. This momentum of the white disk is about equivalent to 300 grams that were located on the circumference. The rotational momentum of the 3,400g drive wheel is roughly equivalent to a 2,200g rim times its circumference velocity. The center of mass of the 456g gray disk is on the circumference of the white disk so its rotational momentum is roughly equal to 456g times the circumference velocity.

Let’s use 1 m/sec for the ribbon velocity; this gives you 1 m/sec circumference velocity for the wheel and white disk and 1 m/sec velocity for the center of mass of the gray disk.   

This gives you an initial linear Newtonian momentum of 2.956 newtons (2,200g + 300g + 456g * 1m/sec)

This gives you an initial kinetic energy of 1.478 joules (1/2 *(2.200kg + .300kg +.456kg) * 1m/sec * 1m/sec)

This gives you and initial angular momentum of .5701   (2.200 * .2286 m + .300kg * .0889m + .456kg * .0889m * 1 m/sec)

For conservation of linear Newtonian momentum the gray disk will be moving 6.48 m/sec when it has all the motion.

For conservation kinetic energy the gray disk will be moving 2.54 m/sec when it has all the motion.

For conservation of angular momentum the gray disk will be moving 7.03 m/sec when it has all the motion.

If you used a larger drive wheel angular momentum conservation would give you a final velocity that would be off the charts.

If Newtonian linear momentum is conserved at 6.48 m/sec the final kinetic energy is 9.57 joules.

Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #177 on: January 09, 2009, 12:41:42 PM »
Correction: a newton is a unit of force not a unit of momentum, Sorry. I have to watch my terms.

Offline Kator01

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2009, 12:58:56 AM »
Hello pequaide,

I can not watch your experiement without my mind beeing triggered with new ideas for proof of your concept.
The following idea I would like to call : "The magnet-and-spheres break-away-force-proof".

Referring back to your first cylinder and the spheres-setup the following principle could be used for proof of concept.

Let us assume you attach two ring-magnets to the end of the fly-away-tethers and attach the steel-spheres to the magnets then the accelleration of magnet-spheres-mass will give you the break-away-force F = mass  x accelleration ( In calculation with the formula M must be the mass of the spheres only ).-> accelleration = F / mass-sphere  which will give you the instant velocity at the break-away-point. This velocity will be of  identical value as the calculated accelleration and at the max value since there will be no additional accelleration after break-loose-point

By putting a plastic-disk-washer of variable thickness between the sphere and the magnet you can control the break-away-force which you can test before each run in a static test-rig. In this test-rig you will measure with a some force-meter the sphere-break-way-force from the magnet with distance-washers of different thickness.

By increasing the thickness of the washer in 0,3 mm -steps ( just a guess ) you will reach a point at which the sphere will break loose which will give you the force and thus accelleration->velocity->energy.

What do you think ?

Regards

Kator

Offline pequaide

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Re: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physic
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2009, 04:38:14 AM »
Keep using thicker and thicker washers until the spheres break away exactly when the white disk and drive wheel are stopped. That should be the point where the centrifugal force is the highest. Brilliant; your idea is absolutely brilliant.

Or you could use electromagnets that open at the exact millisecond of your choice. Good thinking Kator.  Go for it.

 

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