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Author Topic: Magnet-motor - another design  (Read 7902 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Magnet-motor - another design
« on: February 13, 2007, 12:49:59 PM »
What if it was this simple to make a permanent magnet motor:

The rotor are supposed to rotate counter-clockwise:
(http://www.lyd-interior.no/div/Permanent-magnet-motor.jpg)

 ::)

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Magnet-motor - another design
« on: February 13, 2007, 12:49:59 PM »

Offline acp

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2007, 12:52:20 PM »
I think the rotor will want to go just as much clockwise as anticlockwise. Adding the clockwise motion to the anticlockwise motion you will get twice as much power! What a brilliant design!

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2007, 05:29:58 PM »
Don't you see how it suppose to work?
Instead of using alternating electromagnets as in a regular brushed el-motor, the rotor is magnetized by a fixed inner permanent magnet. The design is brilliant, I can tell ;D

Vidar

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2007, 05:29:58 PM »
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Offline joe

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2007, 06:19:13 PM »
Hello Vidar,

When the rotor arm reach the center of the stator arm, how does he gets kik out of that center.

Can you explain a bit more!

Thanks    Joe

Offline joe

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 06:33:23 PM »
Here some pics of a working magnetic motor.

It has 8 rotors and the stators magnets have steel shielding.

And the other picture shows the motor plan but with only 3 rotors.

I did try to reproduce it whitout success

Joe

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 06:33:23 PM »
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Offline joe

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 06:35:53 PM »
Here are the pictures

Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 07:29:18 PM »
A Femm simulation may be able to show wether this can work or not.
It should be interesting to see what happens when the rotor reaches the point where it lines up with the stator poles.
The torque will probably reach zero at this point.
Once it crosses this point the like poles should repel each other allowing the rotor to proceed onto the next stator pole.
Regards
Rob

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 07:29:18 PM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 09:20:45 PM »
Hi Low-Q,

One question, before I analyze...  ;D
You want to fix the multi-pole magnet on the rotor, or independently above the rotor?

By the way, it is a different idea either...

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 10:22:46 PM »
Hello Vidar,

When the rotor arm reach the center of the stator arm, how does he gets kik out of that center.

Can you explain a bit more!

Thanks    Joe

Well the center magnet stands still as the outer magnets do. So the idea is that the iron in the rotor is magnetized depending on position - as in a regular electric motor. When the rotor arm is in center of the stator arm, the rotor arm has no magnetic force, so there will probably be a sticky point right there. Hopefully, the rotor, in the position shown, will have enough torque to push the rotor arm beyond the stator arm.
Hmmm...tricky.... What happends when the center magnet is tilted 30O, instead of 45O as shown? By second thaughts, 45O is not ideal - for magnet motor or regular electric motor.

I'll think about this a little more :)

Br.

Vidar

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 10:22:46 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 10:37:30 PM »
Hi Low-Q,

One question, before I analyze...  ;D
You want to fix the multi-pole magnet on the rotor, or independently above the rotor?

By the way, it is a different idea either...
The idea is that the multi pole magnet and the stator magnets are non movable and fixed to a plywood piece (Any better idea than using plywood?). The iron rotor, which is made of multiple "sheets" of iron - like in the transformers - will be fixed to a ball bearing fixed (on another piece) on a rod in one end, where the iron rotor surounds the multipole magnet very tight (0.1mm or so). Have you seen these brushless outrunner motors for model airplanes? About the same principle as that.

Some iron is also applyed to the outer stator magnets, so when the rotor approach, the outer magnet will not magnetize the rotor to make a sticky point, just to maintain the repelling force when the rotor arm (Hopefully) can pass the outer stator magnet.

Now - analyze!! ;D

Br.

Vidar

Offline barbosi

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 03:18:51 PM »
Any similarities with the picture?
Now remains the "simple" job to convert the design from rotor's coils to perm mag (using iron or anything you'd like)

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 03:18:51 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 04:11:00 PM »
What kind of motor is that? A normal energy comsuming electro motor?

Anyway, with my design I hoped to "rectify" the magnetforces by supplying stabilizing iron to each outer magnets too. Otherwise the rotor iron would be magnitized by these, and then the rotor will turn both ways with same force = not working.
I'll keep dreaming :)

Vidar

Offline Gregory

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 10:48:05 PM »
What kind of motor is that? A normal energy comsuming electro motor?

Anyway, with my design I hoped to "rectify" the magnetforces by supplying stabilizing iron to each outer magnets too. Otherwise the rotor iron would be magnitized by these, and then the rotor will turn both ways with same force = not working.
I'll keep dreaming :)

Sorry I had no time to look back quickly... Yes, this is one thing, and there are more...

First, I think there is a big problem with the drawing as it shows the poles wrongly.
The fixed multipole magnet is the piece which is magnetize the iron rotor, right? And, a magnetic pole when placed near to a piece of iron will induce an opposite pole in the iron, right? North induces south, south induces north. Now check your drawing with the rotor...  Seems to be incorrect for me. 8)

Second, when the multipole magnet attracts the iron rotor, it shares its field at some extent, and want to keep the iron rotor in position, so you will need to do more work on the rotor to move it when you use the multipole magnet than when you don't use...

Third, the rotor will act as a magnetic flux conductor (and attractor), and the stator magnets will also affect it as you mentioned. When you prevent the stator magnets to affect the iron rotor, then there will be no force to operate it. And when you do not prevent them, they will also try to attract the rotor (if it isn't fully saturated), to set a stationary magnetic field and keep it in position. But changes are the things what can drive a motor...

On any way I don't think it can turn even just a half turn without a stop.
I think this design will not work, but the same time I like it! As it is different than the "old-style dreams". End of analysis...  ;D

Offline JackH

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2007, 03:42:13 AM »
Hello All.

Sorry, but I tryed this thing once.  Almost the same design.  It would get stuck between poles.   And the Magnetic Iron really takes the punch out of it.

But do not let me discurage you, it may work for you.

Later,,,,,,JackH

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet-motor - another design
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 02:46:26 PM »
I have done some changes, and used FEMM to analyze the magnetic lines as the rotor spins - now with only two poles...

I'll keep deraming ;D
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2186.0.html

Br.

Vidar

 

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