# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: george_roanoke on February 03, 2007, 01:16:54 PM

Title: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 03, 2007, 01:16:54 PM
I posted this reply in the "Did you see this video based on calloway's vtrack?", but it deals with more than just the calloway vtrack, so I thought it worth opening another topic.  Hopefully this post is a little more clearer the other.( Here is the link for the vtrack incase you haven't seen it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg )

Most of the designs I've seen seem to work on weak to strong magnetic fields. Well i got passed the sticky point on a magnetic ramp design by stacking smaller magnets in a sine wave pattern along the sides of the ramp. The V or diagonal formation of the magnets in some designs could be represented by smaller magnets stacked as half waves (or half sine waves) . So I completed the wave pattern, which kept the steel ball rolling till the wave pattern ended. Worked best in an alternating wave pattern. As one wave completed its attraction and begin to diminish the other took over-one side to the other.  If you think about it, it works like us walking with two legs.  We begin to proceed forward with one leg and would actually fall to the earth attracting us (or stick to the earth like the sticky point with magnets), but the other leg catches us and pulls us forward --- and so on.  I guess the V gate designs would be like hopping with both legs (or in the case of diagonal magnet arrays, like hopping with one leg), thus stopping and going and the need to generate a starting force over and over again.  With the alternating sine wave pattern on the sides, as the momentum of the object (in this case the steel ball on the ramp) carries it a little past the first sticky point, it?s caught by the attracting field on the other side.  Attracking it back and forth, like our two legs carrying us forward.
This brings another idea to mind.  On a down slope it?s easier to walk and pick up speed, gravity and momentum helping us out.  In the same way, having the track slope up and down would help the forward momentum all the more.
Regarding the Calloway wheel video, by aligning his magnets on both sides in only a half wave, he's not giving the attracting magnets any other chioce but to stop.  It's like taking a step over a puddle with one leg and not bringing the other over.  Your stuck right above the puddle.  By completing the wave you give the attracting magnets a path to continue--once the inertia pushes them pass the high field (or "sticky point").

Clear as mud right ?
Here is a rough idea of what I'm talking about:

-
-   -
-  -    -
-  -   -    -   <---small magnets stacked in half wave.  Same effect as
-   -   -   -   -        one large rectangle magnet on diagonal slant.  Both produce
-  -   -    -   -   -        low than high field.
^                   ^
low               high
field              field

-
-   -    -
-    -    -    -
-    -    -    -   -    -           <---small magnets stacked in full wave.
-    -    -    -    -   -    -   -
-  -    -     -    -    -   -    -   -   -
^                     ^                     ^
low                 high                low
field                field                field

-      -      -
---   ---    ---
----- ----- -----       <-small magnets stacked in wave pattern on this side of track
-------------------
________________
________________       <----track
--------------------
----- ----- -----
---   ---    ---      <-- small magnets stacked in wave pattern on this side
-     -       -

Try it yourself.

I've always been told magnetic fields are static.  I guess.  But even if they are static, by arranging them in these low to high, or wave, patterns---combined with some sort movable mechanism like the smot or calloway wheel----we can create dynamic movement.  Just like ,as mentioned previously, us walking across the earth.  Or like the earth moving around the sun.

regards,
gr

Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: tropes on February 03, 2007, 02:22:05 PM
Hi George
Good to see some form of drawing. Now what rolls down the track? a PM? an iron rod? and what is the polarity of the small PM's? As far as the video, most of us have wheels that rotate when we use our hands to oscillate a PM in front of it.
Peter
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 04, 2007, 12:14:12 AM
I used a steel ball on the track.  On one side all the magnets faced north polarity, and on the other all were facing south polarity.  I tried it also with like polarities facing each other, but unlike seemed to worked the best.
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: slncspkr on February 04, 2007, 02:07:22 AM
Hi George.
It is really good to hear that someone has been able to pass the stiky spot.
congrats!
It's any way you can post a little video to see it?
thankyou.

slncspkr.
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 04, 2007, 11:10:33 PM
I'll work on getting a demo movie.  Here is a somewhat quick setup I used just to show it works: I used the magnets and steel ball from the Geomag magnet kit.  I stuck them in the wave pattern onto the sides of two butter knives, and for the track I cut a piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe in half (but any nonmagnetic material will do, as long as the friction is low--- for instance the steel ball has a harder time rolling with a rubber track).  Then just put the knives directly against the side of the pipe half and put on a slight incline so you can be sure it's working and not just an unleveled surface (not to high of an incline if your magnets aren't that strong).
Here also is the drawing from before.  The wave pattern was a little off on the last one.  I was trying to show the high field on one side was directly across and even with the low field on the other side, creating the alternating pattern.  It works even if they aren't alternating, but the alternating seems to work best.

-       -       -
---    ---    ---
----- ----- -----       <-small magnets stacked in wave pattern on this side of track
-------------------
________________
________________       <----track
--------------------
-----  -----  -----
---     ---     ---      <-- small magnets stacked in wave pattern on this side
-       -        -

Looking forward to seeing the applications everyone comes up with!
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 07, 2007, 02:36:28 PM
Here is what I see:

Magnetic Force - which can generate Torque/Inertia Force ? which can be continued by Oscillations/Wave Patterns ? which can be Designed/Engineered Mechanically.

-     -       -
---   ---    ---
----- ----- -----  <-smallmagnets stacked in wave pattern onthis side
-------------------
________________
________________    <---------track

--------------------
----- ----- -----
---    ---   ---  <-- smallmagnets stacked on this side
-      -      -
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: Charlie_V on February 09, 2007, 04:33:48 AM
George, does the steel ball only roll one way or does it roll both?  By this I mean if you place the ball at the right end of the track, will it roll right to left; if you place it on the left side, will it roll left to right?
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 10, 2007, 03:00:12 AM
I thought it was directional at first, but it seemed to be just an unleveled surface error.  Works in either direction (which could be a good thing incase there?s a need to reverse the direction in some application).  Directional movement has been sustained by the strength of the forces (magnetic, inertia, gravity) acting on an object and adequate mechanical design.  As in these three cases:

Once I get enough (and better) magnets, I?ll try a complete rotation with the method discussed here.  Sort of like this design - http://youtube.com/watch?v=pmsu9NbLxGk  (which, by the way, should keep going if he spiraled the path up and let the ball drop down a ramp to the start point before it reaches the last set of magnets?like the smot.)
Trying a wave pattern on the Calloway wheel type may be the easiest though.
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: dean_mcgowan on February 10, 2007, 04:28:10 AM
really like that kundel motor thingamy .. got loads of promise .. some really good posts in this thread.

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 13, 2007, 11:03:06 PM
( Previous statement:

Here is what I see:  Magnetic Force - which can generate Torque/Inertia Force ? which can be continued by Oscillations/Wave Patterns ? which can be Designed/Engineered Mechanically.)

Wow!  As far as the mechanical design, they could be as versatile as the creatures that inhabit the earth.  All creatures (I can?t think of any that don?t) on earth move or propel in some sort of oscillating\alternating pattern---like the way I described earlier when comparing the way we walk to the way a steel ball can be propelled using oscillating magnetic fields.  Some creatures use two legs, some use four, some eight, etc.  Some slither in a wave pattern, fish oscillate back and forth to propel themselves through the water, and birds oscillate with their wings.

Through studying the oscillating mechanical procession of earths creatures (and how the pull of gravity and the forces of inertia play in their movements), perhaps this will help unlock keys insights as to the way we can design mechanisms that work on these principles.

For example, one key insight is that I can?t think of any animal that walks with one leg.  This would be difficult.  Instead most creatures who walk alternate between legs.  So likewise when we try to design a motor based on these principles with one rotating or oscillating arm (?leg?), it?s just as difficult.  Instead, more than one rotator or oscillator can be used to help the other complete its cycle and keep going.  That?s how a bicycle wheel is turned.  One leg pushes for half a turn, than the other pushes to help complete a full rotation of the peddles.  Imagine trying to peddle with one leg.  Think about this in relation to any design your attemping that uses the previously mentioned concepts.
I really would like to hear your thoughts and ideas about this at some point.  After all, as far as mechanical principles, what?s a better teacher than natures design.

By the way, there was this office desk toy I had when I was younger.  It was a three armed rotor that went back and forth on a track, which inclined toward the center (wave pattern again  :)).  The only thing driving it was gravity and inertia, no battery or magnets.  Can?t say how long it runs for, it was always going unless I stopped it. (Course it was starting to wear down, but was working.)   I?ve been try to locate one or at least find out what the name of it was.  If anyone has any info could you please post it.  Thanks in advance for any effort.  Here is a picture of it.

Title: Re: Using Magnetic Procession
Post by: george_roanoke on February 15, 2007, 05:31:11 AM
It appears that Finsrud's device (shown here:  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=553061720631716456&hl=en ) works on this principle of low to high, high to low (etc.), magnetic fields and inertia.  Awesome design.  Seems the inertia created when the ball is attracted by the magnet  (coupled with the weight of the ball, which prevents the magnet from holding it as it goes by) is enough to get the ball to the low (weak) magnetic field of the next magnet--thus starting the process over again.  This is what I was hoping to accomplish with the alternating wave pattern design in a circular track.  Like I said before, it works without the alternating pattern (left side to right), but this seemed to work better this way.

gr