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Author Topic: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.  (Read 13714 times)

MagnaProp

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2023, 12:19:06 PM »
Slooooow but steady progress. Upgraded bearings will need be found eventually but getting the process set up is my first goal.

Cadman

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2023, 05:13:58 PM »
I’m throwing my hat into the ring too. This makes 4 builds I’m working on now, but at least they are all related, and might be combined.

I intend to keep as close to the build instructions as possible and to that end I have collected the following materials so far. Four 7 ga plasma cut mild steel disks slightly over 12” diameter, several mild steel 10 ga strips for the torque plates, skate board bearings, and a precision ground 8mm rod and 20 ga wire for the coils to start with. Each of those disks weigh about 5.5 lbs and sandwiching them together will give 4 different flywheel masses to experiment with.

Didn’t have enough of the right size magnets so those are on the way now, 1/2” x 1” N42 neos. I also don’t have the soft iron core material (not going to use powdered iron for this) so I am thinking about using some lengths of 14 ga baler wire ties and assemble those into the cores. If I use a 1/2” schedule 40 pvc as the former it will give a core OD of roughly 9/16”. Baler wire ties are 1018 steel, but it comes already annealed to dead soft.


floodrod

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2023, 03:16:17 AM »
Want to say- I am pleased to see so many builds going on this.

I finally sourced a free elliptical exercise machine which I am hoping has a decent flywheel in it.  Just gotta get my arse across state lines to pick it up.. 

Keep it up fellas. 


Jimboot

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2023, 05:03:26 AM »
Brad have there been changes in your design since the last time I worked on this?

tinman

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2023, 01:42:20 PM »
Brad have there been changes in your design since the last time I worked on this?

Hi Jim.
No, it is much the same.
The only change is the coil triggering system.
I now use a hall switch to switch on the transistor. I just glued 4 small PMs on the flywheel to trigger the hall.
This removes all those blades we were using in the opto interrupter system.

I see in your last video, you got down to just 7mA draw, with all those big blades attached to the flywheel.
Was that including the recycling of the inductive kickback ?, or was that just been burnt off ?

Brad

MagnaProp

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2023, 07:41:15 AM »
Got a coil wound up. Getting close to having it all mounted so I can add some power. Any last recommendations on how to power it up without burning stuff up? A coil seems kind of like a dead short to me. When I was little I wound some wire around a nail and connected it up to my model trail controller similar to the one shown here. It worked for a minute then I cranked up the juice and the train controller let out the magic smoke. I've never tried that since.

I recall the videos said to limit the amps to no more than 2. I'll have to check again for what voltage to use. Perhaps an electric thermometer would hel? That way I could keep tabs on the temp without risking getting shocked by touching it, to see if it's getting warm.


Thaelin

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2023, 11:50:06 AM »
Remember TM's coil is 5 ohms as is mine. Another one I had was 1.5 and would take 3 amps easy at 30 volts and gave little pull factor. The on I have now is very close to the pull of the mags. Need a scale to set the wattage needed. I would bet your coil is say .5 ohms.
thay


Jimboot

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2023, 12:37:37 PM »
Hi Jim.
No, it is much the same.
The only change is the coil triggering system.
I now use a hall switch to switch on the transistor. I just glued 4 small PMs on the flywheel to trigger the hall.
This removes all those blades we were using in the opto interrupter system.

I see in your last video, you got down to just 7mA draw, with all those big blades attached to the flywheel.
Was that including the recycling of the inductive kickback ?, or was that just been burnt off ?

Brad
No recycling of kickback as was discussed in the other thread - https://youtu.be/D1lEQGVD1lk


MagnaProp

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2023, 08:44:52 AM »
Remember TM's coil is 5 ohms as is mine. Another one I had was 1.5 and would take 3 amps easy at 30 volts and gave little pull factor. The one I have now is very close to the pull of the mags. Need a scale to set the wattage needed. I would bet your coil is say .5 ohms.
thay
My multimeter is saying about .6 ohms so you were right. I need to watch those videos again. I just need to mount the scale then I can finally start some tests. I have a new found respect for how fast tinman puts together his builds.

Thaelin

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2023, 10:47:21 AM »
A big thanks Jim, you cleared up one of my misgivings on how this could work. Seeing this in action showed the operation I could not visualize. Now it fits and get this up. I am having some med issues as of late that are getting in the way of things. Will be mounting the tabs this weekend after drilling the rotor plate.


Can you tell me what voltage you were using with the 28ma draw? Looking forward.


thay


tinman

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #100 on: September 27, 2023, 02:45:02 PM »
When making your coils, please keep the turn number high.
I will show you why here-->

Lets say we have a coil of say 300 turns, and it has a resistance of say 6 ohms.
This coil will draw 2 amps at 12 volts= 24 watts.
Magnetic field strength is determined by amp turns, and in the above case, we have 300x 2amp turns=600 amp turns.
If we wind a coil with say 600 turns, and it's resistance is 12 ohms, will still have the same amount of amp turns--600 amp turns, and
 so our magnetic field strength is the same, only in the later case, we are now only using 12 volts @ 1amp= 12 watts of power.
We have halved our power consumption, but maintained the same magnetic field strength.

Don't worry about coil inductance too much, as the inductance of the coil increases as the torque plate gets closer to the coil core.
This is the reason the peak current flattens off at around 2 amps, regardless of the time period, as shown in previous videos.

The early versions of this motor used opto interrupters to switch on the transistor.
My later versions of the motor uses either reed switches, or hall switches to fire up the transistor.
This allows for better switching, and the elimination of large opto interrupter blades, and the power supply for the interrupter circuit.

Brad

MagnaProp

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #101 on: September 29, 2023, 01:07:39 AM »
Thanks for the info tinman I'll make another coil with a lot more turns as you explained. Thanks again.

onepower

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #102 on: September 29, 2023, 01:27:58 AM »
Magnaprop
Quote
Got a coil wound up. Getting close to having it all mounted so I can add some power. Any last recommendations on how to power it up without burning stuff up?

One important aspect is the pulse time period.

When the current starts rising in a coil the magnetic field starts expanding. When the magnetic field is done expanding all the current starts generating heat in the resistance of the coil. We call this "flat lining", if we watch the current flow on a DSO it starts rising and when it flattens out it starts generating heat.

I often use a voltage sensor, current sensor and a hall effect magnetic field sensor attached to my DSO when tuning coils. This way we can tell how effective or efficient our setup is. Our goal is to produce the strongest magnetic field using the least amount of energy. So it pays to know how strong the magnetic field is and what it's doing relative to our input. 

AC

wopwops

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #103 on: September 29, 2023, 07:18:27 AM »
Is this helpful?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbvZSYQOlKM
Please feel free to delete if not.

Nali2001

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Re: Pulse Motors- Your building them wrong.
« Reply #104 on: September 29, 2023, 10:38:06 PM »
Still here, sharing some progress. Got a 10gk lifting weight and machined 7kg out of it.. its 27cm diameter.