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Author Topic: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?  (Read 3076 times)

Mem

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High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« on: May 25, 2023, 09:14:50 AM »
I have been experimenting with this HV spark gap circuits for a long time, finally, I made a short video for you guys to see it. The circuit is included too
if you want to replicate it yourself.  https://youtu.be/PFVbjo3HQzc

Ufopolitics

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2023, 02:42:33 PM »
Hello and welcome!!

That is a very simple circuit but very interesting result!!
It would be great if you could add an image here of the full diagram with the spec's in more detail.
Like part numbers on the ebay HV Module, cap capacitance of the 5 blue caps plus number of turns on primary.
Or you could take some resistance measure on the 10 gauge spool...it should read the amount of total length on the label.
It would be very interesting to add meters to it...measure Input voltage ande drop voltage whenever you short spark gap and the manually driven one...
And measure amperage on spark gap wire(s).
Another interesting test that could be done, is to make the hole bigger on the spool (by taking off the small plastic to allow for a smaller shaft hole)
And inserting a steel rod inside that spool (it could be solid, no need for laminated steel for just a test)...that way the nagnetic field would be enhanced and much stronger!!

Many thanks for sharing it here!!
I am pretty sure many here would try to replicate it.

Regards

Ufopolitics

gyulasun

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2023, 03:09:26 PM »
I have been experimenting with this HV spark gap circuits for a long time, finally, I made a short video for you guys to see it. The circuit is included too
if you want to replicate it yourself.  https://youtu.be/PFVbjo3HQzc
Hi Mem, 

Very good setup, thanks for showing it.  To answer your question "Is this an OU circuit?", the first step IMHO would be to measure the input current taken from the 3 V battery by the HV module, so the input power could be estimated which may change as the output coil is loaded, you would see it, just to know about it how it behaves.

Then the next step would be to rectify the output voltage from the 10 turn output winding by a fast diode bridge and use a voltage stabilizer which consumes micropower for its own operation, like this I get from random search:   https://www.circuits-diy.com/lp2950-adjustable-micropower-voltage-regulator-circuit 

If the 100 mA output current this regulator is able to provide (at 3V output) is not enough for the HV module input, then you can surely find similar regulators with higher output current capability. 

Then you could see whether feeding back the 3V output of such regulator to the input of the HV module the circuit remains self running or not.

PS I was preparing this post and just noticed member Ufopolitics's comments, you can consider them too of course.   8)

Gyula

kolbacict

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2023, 09:11:07 PM »
And why do you need a perpetual motion machine ?  What will you do with it ?
Maybe you already have it ?  You even die in peace and bliss and without suffering. :)

Mem

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2023, 08:57:18 AM »
Hi Mem, 

Very good setup, thanks for showing it.  To answer your question "Is this an OU circuit?", the first step IMHO would be to measure the input current taken from the 3 V battery by the HV module, so the input power could be estimated which may change as the output coil is loaded, you would see it, just to know about it how it behaves.


Then the next step would be to rectify the output voltage from the 10 turn output winding by a fast diode bridge and use a voltage stabilizer which consumes micropower for its own operation, like this I get from random search:   https://www.circuits-diy.com/lp2950-adjustable-micropower-voltage-regulator-circuit 

If the 100 mA output current this regulator is able to provide (at 3V output) is not enough for the HV module input, then you can surely find similar regulators with higher output current capability. 

Then you could see whether feeding back the 3V output of such regulator to the input of the HV module the circuit remains self running or not.

PS I was preparing this post and just noticed member Ufopolitics's comments, you can consider them too of course.   8)

Gyula




 Hi Gyula,
In the past I have damaged a few digital amp meters while trying to measure the output, anytime there is a spark gap in the circuit it's very hard to measure output accurately. However, the input is measurable. In this circuit when the output is loaded or shorted (not dead short) but while shooting or flying sparks input amps drop to around half, I have also noticed a brief period of time a negative amp (digital meter showed this -.00 ) very strange, How this is possible I have no idea. Perhaps the spark gap affects the reading? 


I actually have purchased in past tiny digital amp and volt meter it will be good to use one of those for an accurate reading. This circuit is not tunable, a little that I know there is no resonance between L1 and L2 (primary and secondary coils) But I hope someone can figure out how to tune L1 and L2 that will be something to look forward to.


Thanks for the "LP2950 Adjustable Micropower Voltage Regulator Circuit", link that's a great idea, or if need be use a similar but higher current voltage regulator for self-loop.
At the end of the video, I have the parts' names if anyone like to replicate this circuit.
Thanks for the input.
Mem.


Mem

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2023, 09:20:25 AM »
Hello and welcome!!

That is a very simple circuit but very interesting result!!
It would be great if you could add an image here of the full diagram with the spec's in more detail.
Like part numbers on the ebay HV Module, cap capacitance of the 5 blue caps plus number of turns on primary.
Or you could take some resistance measure on the 10 gauge spool...it should read the amount of total length on the label.
It would be very interesting to add meters to it...measure Input voltage ande drop voltage whenever you short spark gap and the manually driven one...
And measure amperage on spark gap wire(s).
Another interesting test that could be done, is to make the hole bigger on the spool (by taking off the small plastic to allow for a smaller shaft hole)
And inserting a steel rod inside that spool (it could be solid, no need for laminated steel for just a test)...that way the nagnetic field would be enhanced and much stronger!!

Many thanks for sharing it here!!
I am pretty sure many here would try to replicate it.

Regards

Ufopolitics


Hi Ufopolitics,
Slide the video to the very end and you will the part's names and the number.  The parts are not critical at all, if you can have or make an adjustable spark gap the circuit will work, without a doubt. This is true because of my past experiences.
The 10-gauge spool is sealed, I never open it at all, all you have to do is to get a very thick Cooper wire and put it around the spool maybe around 9 to 10 turns you will get the same or better results than I did.
Most people have all these parts in their junk pile other than a large spool of wire. 
As I have said in my below reply under load input amp definitely goes down to half, why that happens I have no clue. 


You said: (Another interesting test that could be done, is to make the hole bigger on the spool (by taking off the small plastic to allow for a smaller shaft hole)And inserting a steel rod inside that spool (it could be solid, no need for laminated steel for just a test)...that way the magnetic field would be enhanced and much stronger!!

)
Since this is a kind of dumb circuit (meaning there is no resonance) I wouldn't expect much change if the L1 core has a metal rod or not. But again it will be worth experimenting.
I was also thinking to connect a ground wire to one of the coils, but having tested the idea yet.


Anyone can replicate this circuit it's very simple and it will work as long as you have a spark gap and some HV capacitors 1000 PF range 30 KV that will get changed before the spark gap.


Mem.




Mem

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2023, 11:15:48 AM »
And why do you need a perpetual motion machine ?  What will you do with it ?
Maybe you already have it ?  You even die in peace and bliss and without suffering. :)


Can you please elaborate on what prompted you to write these comments above?




kolbacict

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2023, 11:40:06 AM »
Hey, forget it. Then I was a little drunk.
What was said is generally true, but  it still won't change anything. :) :)

lancaIV

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2023, 12:04:37 PM »
Think signal as EMP,
physicalyy as surge effect,
Dirac sea(Moray ses in Physics unused) surge = Dirac surge


Is an EMP unidirectional ? Bi-lateral,physically ? Reflective ?



Your,the device,its switch on cycle phase energy(or micro-/nano-/power input ) versus total ,a. in vaccuo b. in air,cold hot c.in liquid : cold,hot  output !?
Chain re-/action !?
Each time new inertia input or after cycle inertia phase given parameter ( quantity,quality) hold on continuous cycle minimal work input need !?
Parametric motor and parametric generator couple : ~ reversible resonator

  parametric EE Carnot dynamic cycle

A fine weekend wishing

OCWL

nix85

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2023, 09:15:40 PM »
Such sparks are very misleading, i was producing even larger sparks of same kind when shorting the secondary with not much input in my failed attempt step down Don Smith secondary but lightbulb never lit more than input power.

Don't you have a clamp meter, if frequency is high due to LC oscillation full wave rectify it into a cap and measure the DC.

If there is excess current it may be a second "spark gap" effect or combined effect of two spark gaps, obviously second one is not a spark gap but sudden change of impedance and material. Radiant can pour in at such transition zones.

Back in 2006. Stefan has suggested William Alek of Intalek to use graphite/carbon rod instead of steel pipe based on the fact Joe Newman used rough/scratched "bumpy" graphite brushes in his generator.

https://slideplayer.com/slide/4499753/

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/SparkGapExp/SparkGapExp.htm

https://overunity.com/716/carbon-arc-spark-gap-cop-calculation/

https://overunity.com/760/update-excess-energy-observed-in-carbon-arc-experiments/

https://overunity.com/713/update-excess-energy-discovered-in-spark-gap-experiment/

https://overunity.com/708/update-testing-the-perreault-valves/

Alek made number of overunity claims but nothing conclusive came from him, i saw a video of him supposedly demonstrating a small scale overunity like 150% but very small power. It may or may not have been overunity, but in any case nothing conclusive or of useful scale.

Quote from my post about spark gap gains

To quote Don

"spark gap is actually control the level of energy that's passing through there you can do it without the spark gap"

https://youtu.be/_8JwIlHLOUI?t=7590

Point is sg is just just a sudden change in impedance and can replaced by sudden change in thickness of cable, if used for timing by a fast BJT, MOSFET or IGBT (which is a npn mosfet driving a pnp bjt) or just omitted completely.

Few quotes about sg gains...

"V. Mitkevich published a strange observation in Russian, in St. Petersburg, in 1905: an interrupted arc discharge showed an anomalous energetic “kick.” The voltage in the arc reversed at the moment when the arc was disrupted."

https://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue133/forgotten-inventions-of-lenr.html

William Alek tungsten carbon sg gains

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/SparkGapExp/SparkGapExp.htm

"The Correas have now convincingly demonstrated the principle that it is possible to release from charged metals in a vacuum amounts of free energy which exceed the amounts of energy put into the system."

http://www.rexresearch.com/correa/correa.htm

"energy available at the output of the helix of the traveling wave tube is 96 times the energy input to the traveling wave tube, in addition to the energy consumed within the traveling wave tube and the energy available in the form of collected particles at the collector electrode"

http://www.rexresearch.com/ev/ev.htm

dieter member here

"Experimenting with a 3kV Sparkgap, shocking a graphite core, I observed strange reduction of power consumption"

https://overunity.com/12328/radiant-electriciy-generated-with-spark-gaps-and-induction-coils-theory/msg502989/#msg502989

Electroboom current draw goes down when sg fires

https://youtu.be/m7VP36diOKY?t=135

"In fact some investigators have proposed that an abrupt voltage pulse with only (vacuum) displacement current and minimal charge motion is sufficient to produce anomalously excessive energy. Bearden (1993) proposed this is his final secret, and Hyde (1990) used this principle in desgining an invention (a mechanical electrostatic field chopper) that reportedly output 20KW while self running. Hyde stressed there should be no corona present whatsoever."

Quest For Zero-Point Energy: Engineering Principles for “Free Energy” by Moray B. King

"Dr Chernetski demonstrated a device which showed enough excess energy to burn out a power station which it was connected to in a test. It was based around a spark discharge in low pressure hydrogen. Dr Chernetski was then killed in a car accident and his worked taken no further.

In a simpler test he also showed that with the right spark and less “expensive setup” could show a decrease in draw current with an increase in the load."

https://www.nuenergy.org/chernetsky-plasma-generator/

And so on ad infinitum

But, again, it can be done without.

Mem

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2023, 09:21:09 AM »
Such sparks are very misleading, i was producing even larger sparks of same kind when shorting the secondary with not much input in my failed attempt step down Don Smith secondary but lightbulb never lit more than input power.

Don't you have a clamp meter, if frequency is high due to LC oscillation full wave rectify it into a cap and measure the DC.

If there is excess current it may be a second "spark gap" effect or combined effect of two spark gaps, obviously second one is not a spark gap but sudden change of impedance and material. Radiant can pour in at such transition zones.



Hi Nix85,
Thanks for the vast amounts of links on the subject.
In the past, I too experimented quite a bit with Don Smith circuits but as you said, I never was able to get more output than input either. I thought his devices were all fake since I didn't even see any running device video, until years ago I came across two guys who were both oriental, maybe one from Japan and one from Korea they successfully replicated the D Smith device. What was standing out as they both had maybe a dozen HV caps all parallel-connected to L2 to tune the circuit.
That was so clear that unless you tune the circuit (L1 and L2) there is no usable output. I understood that was my problem, I didn't know how to do that. It's not really hard either it's just knowing how to do it.
Well here are a bunch of videos on how to find coil resonance.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+find+coil+resonance
But we are talking about two L1 and L2 coils here, not just 1 coil.
I don't have time right now, but later if I find a good tutorial video I share a link.








 










nix85

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2023, 01:17:21 PM »
You're welcome. As for successful Don Smith replica you are probably referring to Salty citrus i already shared in my thread "Just another Don Smith thread".

"Saltycitrus is a Chinese guy, that is, a group of people, who replicated Don years ago. More about him/them in PJ Kelly's book."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cni08WjLTcc

Few answers given by Salty (also from PJK's book)

Question: There is nothing to do with quarter-wavelength, but is there anything with the length of the L1 and L2 coils on quarter-wavelength?
Answer: I think that the phase is more important.
Question: Do you need a Phase-Locked Loop circuit with a certain phase difference?
Answer: Basically, I use a fixed frequency, I have tried a Phase-Locked Loop and the effect is the same.
Question: Do you use direct drive with the spark gap only being used to limit voltage?
Answer: You can use a vacuum tube to drive it.
Question: If you drive it directly, then the loading will be very big and the current will increase, whereas if you use a spark gap, then the spark will become smaller and the current will be steady.
Answer: If the load affects the input, then you cannot drive it even with a spark gap. If you trigger with a spark gap, then the load will not increase the input. The spark gap is just a switch.
Question: Is there any direct Lenz relationship between the load and the primary?
Answer: Once the phase has been adjusted, the primary has no adverse effect on the secondary.

Commenting on his circuitry, ‘Salty Citrus’ states: The diode symbols with a tick indicate a Zener diode (or bidirectional TVS-Transient Voltage Suppressor or “varistor”). For example, in this circuit, they are used to suppress the Grid voltage of the MOSFET, to maintain the gate voltage within the range of +20V to -20V. The above circuit is just a description of the structure of the MOS series method. Specific components will be needed for your own requirements considering the MOSFETs being used in your construction. The voltage E0 can be adjusted. The source can be made using a TL494 IC operating at 12V, or alternatively, an adjustable, voltage-stabilised inverter can be used. The voltage setting depends on the numbers of MOSFETs which are being used in series and the parameters of Grid voltage and the turns ratio of the isolation transformer. The circuit is arranged so that each MOSFET has its own separate isolation transformer, and all of the primary windings of those transformers are connected in series to form a single current path. The number of turns in the primary of each isolation transformer is exactly the same. To drive an IGBT(or MOSFET), VT6 provides a highfrequency pulse current to drive the Gates of the MOSFETs, so as to achieve consistent switching. In my circuit, the frequency used is 220 kHz, for this frequency, I use six MOSFETs type CMF2012 (1200V, 37A, Resistance Drain-to-Source of just 80 milliohms). This MOSFET from CREE has excellent performance, but you have to design the drive circuit carefully, 2V to 22V for the Gate voltage will be best. I particularly stress that it is very important that MOSFETs operated in series, require voltage balancing and an accurate drive. Especially important is having synchronized drive signals and the rise and fall time of the drive signal should be as short as possible, so that the switching time difference between the MOSFETs will be short, and that improves the high frequency operation.

End quote. As for tuning, tuning is not enough, if it was, every Tesla coil would be overunity. I know how to find resonant frequency in at least 3 different ways. I bought Hantek DSO2D15 to do the tuning properly. Main methods is pulsing the coil with dc and then using cursors to measure the frequency of the damped ringing. Another is to use frequency generator (inbuilt in Hantek) and find (sweep) the frequency at which the impedance of the coil is max. One can also place a resistor in series with the coil and then instead of max voltage look for minimum voltage across the resistor. Obviously, max voltage drop across the LC tank means the least voltage drop across the resistor. Obviously one can measure L and C values and calculate but it's never as precise as direct measurement. Etc.

Here are few good videos on tuning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euy2U92I8e4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6WdTM8s4U

I wrote in my first post in aforementioned thread (and as the guy in most popular video on Tesla coil tuning says as well), when loaded coils change each other's resonant frequency and behavior becomes very complex. They detune each other. Loading the secondary drops the primary resonance 2-3 kilohertz. Sparks on regular Tesla coil lower it even more so they have to take this into account. Where it is placed also greatly affects ordinary Tesla coil resonant frequency. That is why tuning a regular Tesla coils is tedious and many spent countless hours to get it right.

And it depends greatly if coupling is weak (single peak) or hard (multiple peaks), and how fast energy transfers to the secondary aka how long the spark gap stays on.

"1st notch quench"

https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/operatn2.html

But in Don Smith and similar designs where L1 and L2 are close according to this spark gap never really quenches so, according to this website, energy always circulates between primary and secondary what they see as undesirable since conventionally energy is lost in a spark gap (as RF, heat and sound of course), but it may be just the other way around with proper use of spark gap.

In my attempt spark gap definitely did not fire continuously, it was firing intermittently depending on how i 'tuned' it, the input capacitance and voltage etc, approximately 10-20 times a second.

But then again, as Don Said, "spark gap is actually control the level of energy that's passing through there you can do it without the spark gap"

And i agree with Don, spark gaps are messy, noisy and just undesirable, despite the fact they can be a syphon for the radiant. Resonance itself is a syphon, no spark gaps or core air gaps needed. But unless high q coils are involved resonance alone is not enough. As i said if it were every Tesla coil would be overunity which it is not. It all depends on particular device/method.

Below is a photo of my (ex) Hantek and how Don Smith attempted replica coils affect each other in complex way, resonant frequency is clearly seen with prominent circa 14th harmonic.

lancaIV

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2023, 04:29:52 PM »
An array,cascading effect,step up :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19940318&CC=FR&NR=2695768A3&KC=A3#
Study it !
ccw arrangement AND cw arrangement ! Both in one !
Okay,by calculations controle : error included !
But the importance is about material kind use,Ohm/Siemens(= inverted Ohm),electro-/magneto-static !
Not a need for all steps reproduction,3 steps cascade enough for functionality and C.O.P. work approvement !

wmbr
OCWL

e2matrix

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2023, 09:22:15 PM »
I'm fairly certain this is the high voltage module Mem used from eBay:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/304807556729


and these are likely the caps:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/325166790428




nix85

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Re: High Amps from 3 Volts. Is this an OU circuit?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2023, 11:44:54 PM »
Mem you did not reply to don't you have a clamp meter (or a shunt) to measure the current
to compare input/output.