Author Topic: Power of Commutators (Read 1286 times)

floodrod · « **on:** March 22, 2023, 03:24:54 PM »

I am thinking old fashioned commutators may be the way forward. This thread will propose reasonings, examples, and document some past and future commutator builds.

1. Adams motor- he used a commutator
2. Clemente F- Used a Commutator
3. Newman Motor- Used a Commutator
4. Tesla's motors
And I am sure countless others..

Sure, one could say they used commutators because modern electronics were not available back then (in some cases) But perhaps commutators are better even so..

1. They usually will not blow up easily like FET's and other electronics.
2. You can use real current and low resistance coils
3. They work in reverse
4. Less loss?? (depending on the brushes)
5. No need for sensors, PWM controllers, and Logic power.
5. More reasons???

My first motor I ever build had a homemade commutator to switch DC polarities.. Boy was it rough running. LOL.. But it ran.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lHw4XlHBPc

Later today I plan to start a new related project to make a DC to AC commutator. Actually more like a mechanical brushed inverter to test setups with.

I will update if anyone's interested in the results.

Thaelin · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2023, 04:34:56 PM »

That starts off sounding just like a dynamotor of the 40's. Had two commutators one each end. One for the motor and one for the HV gen side for the electronics of the day. You know, tubes, valves what ever you call them. 28v aircraft dc to 125 v ac 400hz.

synchro1 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2023, 06:44:55 PM »

A limit switch with this capability is a good idea :

EDIT- Resized pic. Please keep pics within size limit

floodrod · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2023, 07:31:29 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on March 22, 2023, 04:34:56 PM

That starts off sounding just like a dynamotor of the 40's. Had two commutators one each end. One for the motor and one for the HV gen side for the electronics of the day. You know, tubes, valves what ever you call them. 28v aircraft dc to 125 v ac 400hz.

Kinda, but with no step-up / coils.. What you put in is what you get out.

Synchro- Here is a similar one I made like your post. A little polarity flipper that uses a passing magnet or a pulsing electromagnet.. I called this one "Sparky" for obvious reasons.. It was a little too crude for practical use and required alternating magnetic field to operate, but it did run my motor fine..

The one I am starting now I want to work off simple rotation and be solid with proper brushes for reliability

floodrod · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2023, 08:24:42 PM »

And here is another one I made for 1 way pulsing an Adams motor. This one worked pretty good except the heat started to melt the plastic. And I didn't take the time to make a proper brush setup.

It ran fine- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOWewgbJlaM

My new one I have a plan for the surface so it doesn't melt the plastic.

Dog-One · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2023, 10:53:45 PM »

What I'd like to see someone make is a commutator using good
ol' fashion mercury. Gravity plays-in obviously, so the contacts
must be on the bottom.

floodrod · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2023, 03:16:19 AM »

Quote from: Dog-One on March 22, 2023, 10:53:45 PM

What I'd like to see someone make is a commutator using good
ol' fashion mercury. Gravity plays-in obviously, so the contacts
must be on the bottom.

Would be cool.. Less friction..

Update- got the commutator made. Looks decent. Used JB-weld Steel-Stick to fill in the gaps and prevent melting the plastic. Steel Stick is Non-conductive, stands up to 900 PSI and between 350-450 degrees temps. Also got the input brush holder done.. Took several prints of course.... Printing the output AC brush holders now. Probably take a few re-do's to get these right too.

Pretty simple design. But I think it will do what I am looking for.

floodrod · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2023, 06:51:05 PM »

My brushed mechanical inverter works fine.. Alternating DC square waves from a battery with no circuitry.

It can definitely be improved, but good enough to use it as a test source..

See it run and the scope output----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofne2-pNHE

Thaelin · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2023, 07:22:22 PM »

The test will be the test if time on the brushes. How long can they hold up. The rotor of a small motor wired up to do the same thing will last longer in my op. But you have done what I tried and failed to do. Just graft an old motor to your system and wire the contacts to do the 50/50 if that is what you want. Can even make it faster if you use less segments.
thay

floodrod · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2023, 11:58:51 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on March 23, 2023, 07:22:22 PM

The test will be the test if time on the brushes. How long can they hold up. The rotor of a small motor wired up to do the same thing will last longer in my op. But you have done what I tried and failed to do. Just graft an old motor to your system and wire the contacts to do the 50/50 if that is what you want. Can even make it faster if you use less segments.
thay

Thanks for the comment. The commutator is nice and smooth like glass. and practically no sparking, so hoping it lasts the test of time.

Yes your proposed way is something to consider, but for now, I want to power the motor separately from a 2nd supply and not run the driving current through motor windings. I would like to look at the source and know how much power my test device is utilizing not counting the power it takes to spin the commutator.

I had it running for about an hour total already (on and off) and the Steel-Stick Epoxy is working excellent.. I think steel-stick is an excellent choice for filling in commutators.

floodrod · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2023, 01:03:25 AM »

Gonna make the 16 pole Clement Figuera Commutator next...

I just tried soldering pennies. Get them hot enough and they solder fine..

Update- Here is the design and plan- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL8kCuGbyAk

floodrod · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:40:40 PM »

Just updating in case anyone has some advice as I continue..

16x pre 1981 copper pennies
Steel-Stick track between pennies to absorb heat
Sand it smooth

floodrod · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2023, 02:31:11 AM »

What a PITA...

" We will add also a rotating brush which is always touching more than one contact."

Doah... To accomplish this, I have no choice but to use 3 brushes on the contacts, + 1 brush to input the DC.. 4 total brushes..

Guess that's why Clemente says " A brush or a group of brushes".. Just hoping the computer fan has enough juice to spin with 4 brushes on it..

Other than that, the build is going OK.. Triple brush holder is printing now, then need to design and print bottom DC input brush holder and a Top Bearing support..

Whatever... I am determined to build this commutator now and test this device as specified..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hup2XlFNHf8

floodrod · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2023, 05:13:28 PM »

Woohoo..

Clemente Figuera commutator complete and working.. Had to improvise with the motor as the computer fan was not strong enough..

** 16 Contacts
** Always touching at least 2 connection points

See it run- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GstC0bMLXuU

I will probably start a new thread with info on the Clemente generator as I experiment.. This thread is just about commutators

floodrod · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2023, 09:28:12 PM »

Running 12V Car Lights As The Load To Ensure The Commutator Is Working Right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGMTaEpCks

Not sure if the resistance is right, but seems it's working as it should~!

Cookie	Origin	Persistency	Information and Usage
ecl_auth	overunity.com	Expires after 30 days	This cookie contains the text "EU Cookie Law - LiPF cookies authorised". Without this cookie, the Forums' software is prevented from setting other cookies.
SMFCookie648	overunity.com	Expires according to user-chosen session duration	If you log-in as a member of this site, this cookie contains your user name, an encrypted hash of your password and the time you logged-in. It is used by the site software to ensure that features such as indicating new Forum and Private messages are indicated to you. This cookie is essential for the site software to work correctly.
PHPSESSID	overunity.com	Current session only	This cookie contains a unique Session Identification value. It is set for both members and non-members (guests) and it is essential for the site software to work correctly. This cookie is not persistent and should be automatically removed when you close the browser window.
pmx_upshr{NAME}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records your display preferences for the site's Portal page if a panel or individual block is collapsed or expanded
pmx_pgidx_blk{ID}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the page number for the site's Portal page if the page for a individual block is changed.
pmx_cbtstat{ID}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the expand/collapse state for a CBT Navigator block content.
pmx_poll{ID}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the id for the current poll in a multiple Poll block.
pmx_{fadername}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the state for a Opac-Fader block.
pmx_LSBsub{ID}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the current category and the state for a static Category block.
pmx_shout{ID}	overunity.com	Current session only	These cookies are set to records the current state of a Shout box block.
pmx_php_ckeck	overunity.com	Page load time	This cookie will probably never see you. It is set, if a Syntax check on a PHP block is initiated and will be deleted if the function executed.
pmx_YOfs	overunity.com	Page load time	This cookie will probably never see you. It is set on portal actions like click on a page number. The cookie is evaluated on load the desired page and then deleted. It is used to restore the vertical screen position as before the click.

1	We are aware that Google uses additional cookies it stores on your PC and when you browse our site and all other sites. These are used to target advertising and Google currently does this without seeking your permission. Four of these cookies we know about are named "rememberme", "NID", "PREF" and "PP_TOS_ACK" and are stored in Google's cache on your computer.
2	If you are accessing this site using someone else's computer, please ask the owner's permission before accepting cookies.
3	Your browser provides you with the ability to inspect all cookies stored on your PC. In addition your browser is responsible for removing "current session only" cookies and those that have expired; if your browser is not doing this, you should report the matter to your browser's authors.
4	We regret and apologies for any inconvenience this causes to members and guests who are accessing our web site from outside the European Union. It is not currently possible for us to interrogate your browser and obtain geographic location information in order to decide whether or not to prompt you to accept cookies.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

News:

User Menu

Author Topic: Power of Commutators (Read 1286 times)

floodrod

Power of Commutators

Thaelin

Re: Power of Commutators

synchro1

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

Dog-One

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

Thaelin

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators

floodrod

Re: Power of Commutators