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Author Topic: TopRuslan  (Read 50022 times)

apecore

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2023, 01:31:18 PM »
For now, just inductor alone.  I'll be quite curious if the
frequency sweeps hit the same points or not.  You'll have
to let us know how you hooked things up to make it work
since the inductor really isn't designed for high frequency
input.  If you can't get any good signal going, don't be
alarmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW1Qn0DQwJM

Next vid
https://youtu.be/V8BcvHVAT5g

Signal connected to inductor coil, probing grenade under 8k2 resistor load
The 2Mhz region is popping up again


Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2023, 02:46:06 PM »
Next vid
https://youtu.be/V8BcvHVAT5g

Signal connected to inductor coil, probing grenade under 8k2 resistor load
The 2Mhz region is popping up again

Great info apecore!

This gives us some good news and some bad news...

The good news is that we can indeed push a high frequency signal
in through the inductor and the grenade will resonate at the same
frequency as when doing it through the antenna.

The bad news is we have to lower the coupling on the push-pull
transformer.  The reason being, the 2MHz signal can come out
from the inductor the same way it can go in.  So if your Tesla coil
is pushing 2MHz through the antenna into the grenade, that same
signal can come out through the inductor, through the push-pull
transformer and be shunted by the push-pull drivers.  Not what
we want for sure.  The other option is to place a good low-pass
filter between the push-pull transformer and the grenade inductor.
This should stop the high frequency from getting back to the
push-pull driver and being shunted.


Something I want to try just to ensure all the basic electronics
is correct, is to put the grenade coil under simulation with LTspice.
Most likely I wouldn't see any OU artifacts, but at least I would
know if we have done due diligence with matching impedances.

With LTspice being a free resource, I can post the model for
everyone to experiment with.  Hopefully someone will spot the
error of our ways and get us moving in the right direction.

Does anyone have a schematic of the grenade that they would
trust as being accurate or most likely correct?  Something that
shows number of turns, direction of turns, layers, order of layers,
etc?  With that I think I can come pretty close to modelling it in
LTspice.  This will help to determine what factors depend on other
factors.  I don't think I can factor in wire length, so I'll have to
fudge that with inductance and coupling coefficients.  If I can
put this is a form that resembles a transmission line, it could
prove to be a big help.  At the very least, we can visualize what
we are dealing with and what things certainly will not work.

apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2023, 02:54:29 PM »
Short reply..

Does it matter the I didnt connected the inductor loop.
Would did not reduce the impact on hf?

Test again with loop connected?

Regarding your propoasl fir LT spice, i would propose to use my configuration for modeling.
Tell me the parameters you want and i deliver.

Great news...


apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2023, 03:54:00 PM »
This is my grenade, it resonates at 2.0Mhz.
I will post all needed specs here.

apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2023, 05:01:28 PM »
This is my configuration.
I added pp foil between layer 1 and 2 for mor capacitance in order to get the 2.0Mhz region.


Made a mistake in the drawing, grenade is now verified.. has 33.5uH .. and resonates approx at 2.0Mhz
You always have to play with the last layer to get it +/- 5khz

Layer 5 and 6 I messed up

Small vid for frequency verification after rewinding;

https://youtu.be/Tb7aV_GVMDI
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 08:38:30 PM by apecore »

apecore

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2023, 06:51:40 PM »

So if your Tesla coil is pushing 2MHz through the antenna into the grenade, that same
signal can come out through the inductor, through the push-pull
transformer and be shunted by the push-pull drivers.  Not what
we want.

Good work Dog-one,
Reading it twice and thinking about it is exciting. I like it the way you tell it...  :D
Sounds like a plan.

So the bad news aint mayde not as bad as we think, giving oppertunity.
I understand this issue, but we need to consider adding hardware could eliminate the 'effect' or gain
We dont know?

But we need protection probably to avoid damages on hardware.w/o shooting us in the foot.

Just out of the box....... Verpies lossles clamp idea would be an option?..... this lossles clamp has potential.. with extra functionality to measure something?





Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2023, 09:04:00 PM »
This is my configuration.
I added pp foil between layer 1 and 2 for mor capacitance in order to get the 2.0Mhz region.

"pp foil" is that metallic with a split?  No split?  Non-metallic?


Made a mistake in the drawing, grenade is now verified.. has 33.5uH .. and resonates approx at 2.0Mhz
You always have to play with the last layer to get it +/- 5khz

Layer 5 and 6 I messed up

Small vid for frequency verification after rewinding;

https://youtu.be/Tb7aV_GVMDI

Very good.  I can work with that picture and see what kind of fudging
I have to do with an AC analysis sweep to see if I can match your
actual resonance point.

Your inductor turns would be a separate layer over layer's 1 & 2 correct?

Antenna same thing over all layers?


I understand this issue, but we need to consider adding hardware could eliminate the 'effect' or gain
We dont know?

But we need protection probably to avoid damages on hardware.w/o shooting us in the foot.

I recall some of the old videos where Ruslan was inserting capacitors
into the schematic--maybe to fix this problem?  I didn't think about
passive filter elements at the time, but it makes sense now when I
think about it.

Just out of the box....... Verpies lossles clamp idea would be an option?..... this lossles clamp has potential.. with extra functionality to measure something?

I made a nice lossless clamp board with a SG3525 chip.  When I
connect it to a good nanocrystalline core, I can get power-in /
power-out of almost 100% conversion.  The best part is I get
that ratio regardless of what kind of load I attach.  If there is
any impedance mismatch, the reflected energy just goes right
back on the DC bus and gets recycled.  No heat loss in snubbers.

apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2023, 09:20:24 PM »
Inductor and antena

Yes antenne at inductor position


apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2023, 09:26:42 PM »
"pp foil" is that metallic with a split?  No split?  Non-metallic?

Polypropyleen sheet where you can put in paper for clean protection

Very good.  I can work with that picture and see what kind of fudging
I have to do with an AC analysis sweep to see if I can match your
actual resonance point.

Your inductor turns would be a separate layer over layer's 1 & 2 correct?
Yes

Antenna same thing over all layers?
Only inductor position


I recall some of the old videos where Ruslan was inserting capacitors
into the schematic--maybe to fix this problem?  I didn't think about
passive filter elements at the time, but it makes sense now when I
think about it.

I made a nice lossless clamp board with a SG3525 chip.  When I
connect it to a good nanocrystalline core, I can get power-in /
power-out of almost 100% conversion.  The best part is I get
that ratio regardless of what kind of load I attach.  If there is
any impedance mismatch, the reflected energy just goes right
back on the DC bus and gets recycled.  No heat loss in snubbers.

I do have such a core, two pieces together.

I guess we first want to what happens with HF in respect to losses and risk.
Bit thinking about how to ake it smart is good, so we can optimize hardware.

Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2023, 11:22:19 PM »
Yes, if we know what the components should do, we can possibly
make things better.  When we don't know, we really only have the
fallback position of doing what Ruslan did.

apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2023, 11:31:17 PM »

Impedance works in general terms, but when we get
to the aligning the waves, overlaying them with their
respective frequencies, then I think we have to go back
to thinking resistance, voltage/current ratio.  Because
at that point when we examine instantaneous behavior,
we have to see differences in potential so we can predict
which way current will flow and what the ratio will do.
We will be looking for a gain function that forces energy
from the ground, into the grenade and out to our load.
I'd be willing to bet there is a voltage/current ratio between
the air and the ground that comes into play here.

Just a concept to discuss your view on voltage/ current ratio

Displacement current is or could be imo part of the proces flowing from grenade to antenne?

How we get Displacement current?...... sharp unipolair pulsing or discharging very fast dielectric field between antenne amd grenade... high dV/dt

Or is it creating a environment as lightning appears.... discharging grenade or antenne w/o sparking..... also by pulsing and or building up potential difference







Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2023, 12:32:58 AM »
Just a concept to discuss your view on voltage/ current ratio

Displacement current is or could be imo part of the proces flowing from grenade to antenne?

How we get Displacement current?...... sharp unipolair pulsing or discharging very fast dielectric field between antenne amd grenade... high dV/dt

Or is it creating a environment as lightning appears.... discharging grenade or antenne w/o sparking..... also by pulsing and or building up potential difference

I've been doing some reading...

https://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/cable_impedance.html

What seems very clear to me is, the ground wire has an impedance.
If we do not match to that impedance, forget about pumping any
external energy into the device.  So what frequency do we use to
check the impedance at?

I would have say both the Tesla coil frequency and the push-pull
frequency.  At one frequency current should transfer nearly lossless
and at the other frequency, the ground wire completely attenuates
it.

It could be more difficult than this, because we are heterodyning
within the grenade.  Recall that is a mixing of two frequencies to
get F1 + F2 and F1 - F2.  That is four frequencies of interest now.
We need to find a way to see how much attenuation we get for
all four of those frequencies to our ground connection.

There is correct combination where the ground wire allows current
flow in and stops reverse current flow back out.  That will be our
pump.  My guess is it won't be absolute, but will overall favor one
direction, enough where we can illuminate some lamps.   ;)

Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2023, 12:49:52 AM »
To add some more for the previous post, Ruslan has all his
convoluted components for reason--to achieve what I just
expressed.  That's the method to his madness.

First, he needs a high and a low frequency.  Each frequency
is developed by a different means--different voltage/current
ratios.

Second, he needs to mix (heterodyne) those frequencies
so he can snag the composite frequencies in such a way where
there is built-in attenuation.  "Frequency diodes" might be a
way to express the concept here.

Third, he needs to expose theses frequencies to a current
sink/source (ground) using the impedance of the actual
ground wire to control the direction of current flow.

Lastly, he needs to collect the current flow that comes into
the system from the ground wire and pump it out through
a load.


So when Ruslan states there is no magic here, just commonly
known physics, I don't think he is bullshitting us.  He's just
doing it in a way that is not obvious on the surface.  And what
I'm trying to do here is make it obvious, because I think this
method can be used for all sorts of devices we haven't even
thought of yet.  And there may be ways to do this that are
more simple, though I suspect if there were, Ruslan wouldn't
have chosen something so complicated.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 12:17:51 PM by Dog-One »

apecore

  • Guest
Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2023, 11:31:14 AM »
I've been doing some reading...

https://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/cable_impedance.html

There is correct combination where the ground wire allows current
flow in and stops reverse current flow back out.  That will be our
pump.  My guess is it won't be absolute, but will overall favor one
direction, enough where we can illuminate some lamps.   ;)

Interesting subject.
So where and how do we srart or begin?
I have currently a 37.5m 16m^2 wire conected between my grenade, kacher secundairy and groundrod.
I can wound it op as a coil for at lrast 20meter.
This was also in one of the old kapanadze/Ruslan vids.

Can we try and measure something?

Dog-One

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Re: TopRuslan
« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2023, 12:58:33 PM »
So where and how do we srart or begin?

I have currently a 37.5m 16m^2 wire conected between my grenade, kacher secundairy and groundrod.
I can wound it op as a coil for at lrast 20meter.
This was also in one of the old kapanadze/Ruslan vids.

Can we try and measure something?

I'm not real certain how except for maybe following Akula's lead
when he built that big measuring coil.  As I recall, he would test it
for resonance with and without the ground connection.  He must
have known all the specifics of that measuring coil and based on
the variance with the ground connection, was able to calculate
what the impedance of the ground had to be.  That's the only
idea I have for now we could try.  I'm not at all sure how to go
about performing the calculation to be honest, but I can spot a
trend in the measurement data if there is one.

You will probably want to use your grenade coil to conduct the
measurement.  If it doesn't give us good data, then I suppose
you could wind a large measuring coil, which you may end up
doing anyway.

If you try it, I would only loosely coil up your ground wire.  That
way you can make a small adjustment either way by coiling it
tighter or by uncoiling it.  Those would be two more measurements
you would want to take.  I would hope to see some consistent
variation between the four measurements.  With that, maybe
I can map the data to some kind of circuit that describes what
we are dealing with.

There's also two ways to conduct the measurements and you'll
probably want to do both of them.

One way is to find the new resonant frequency points.

The other way is to stay at the same resonant point and measure
the change in amplitude--attenuation.

Each way should be telling us the same thing, so I would expect
one way to actually validate the other.

If the data you collect is inconclusive, it could well mean grounding
in your location requires a completely different frequency to get
the effect we need for the device to work properly.  This would
probably explain why there are so few working replications.  It
makes a lot of sense to me that people have built these devices
completely oblivious to the ground circuits they connect them to,
then wonder why they do not show any power gain.  I include
myself in that gang.