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Author Topic: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!  (Read 56171 times)

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #255 on: March 21, 2023, 08:55:42 PM »
        And let me tell you my vision of the processes in Mike Corbin's device .

                           Since the Director is made of a material with high magnetic permeability, its rotation changes the force of interaction between the two compound rotor magnets. Everyone is well aware that when two magnets approach with opposite poles, they turn into one magnet. There is also a reverse process. At the same time, the strength of the poles of these magnets changes to a large extent.There are also many intermediate positions.
                                                  Thus, the rotation of the director in the center of the rotor significantly changes the strength of the magnetic field at the two ends of the rotor.
                                           
                                          I want to see the continuation of this story, otherwise I'm bored alone writing fairy tales .....   :)   :)

Hi BorisKrabow,
Refer to reply #233. Image attached below for convenience.

This shows the flux in the outer gaps remaining the same as center director is displaced. I suspect that there would actually be some distortion of the field in the magnet/stator tooth air gap because the overall circuit reluctance changes and because the rotor magnet will displace relative to the stator tooth (which is not obvious in the FEMM). I think a more detailed analysis is in order. The rotor does move from tooth to tooth, so there is more to it. This is a first step, and nicely done.

Previously, a member commented he didn't see how torque on the director could cause the rotor to move past the stator tooth (stable detent). With equal distance and area gaps, that may well be the case. This FEMM supports that. My contention, since there is actual rotation, that there is another factor at play, for instance, the outer air gaps made longer than inner gaps at the director.

Also, in regards to your remark about breaking a magnet in half, good thought process. I suggest you take it a step further. I'll post a link to a pull force calculator. Run through a simple quick exercise. Choose a material, diameter, thickness, etc and find the force. Repeat with everything the same except half the thickness. How does resultant force compare?
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.asp
bi

BorisKrabow

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #256 on: March 22, 2023, 01:26:08 AM »
Hi!
                   For me, this is big news. I did not know that everyone here believes in simulations. Apparently no one now measures magnetic fields with instruments. This model, like many others, does not even closely show the ongoing processes.
     
But that's not a problem, just copy the device like Mike Corbin suggests and you'll be fine.

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #257 on: March 22, 2023, 02:03:51 AM »
Hi!
                   For me, this is big news. I did not know that everyone here believes in simulations. Apparently no one now measures magnetic fields with instruments. This model, like many others, does not even closely show the ongoing processes.
     
But that's not a problem, just copy the device like Mike Corbin suggests and you'll be fine.

So, show us your measurements.
bi

SolarLab

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #258 on: March 22, 2023, 03:25:02 AM »
Hi!
                   For me, this is big news. I did not know that everyone here believes in simulations. Apparently no one now measures magnetic fields with instruments. This model, like many others, does not even closely show the ongoing processes.
     
But that's not a problem, just copy the device like Mike Corbin suggests and you'll be fine.
Hi BorisKrabow,

Of course there are a number of ways to develop the Corbin patent and just copying the device
is probably one of them. The problem is; it's quite difficult to simply copy the device - not enough
information is given in the patent or on the web side pages (at least I can't find enough there to
even attempt a "just copy the device" starting point.

However, I never approach a design from that prospective anyway since its too expensive, time
consuming and risk prone. A good professional CAE Analysis and Simulation is much less risky IMHO.

So anyway, I have taken the concept and began developing it using Solidworks EMworks 3D CAE
simulator and so far found considerable merrit in Corbin's concepts; this includes reviewing the
simulated torques and forces for the various elements, including different types of magnets, thru
it's various operational angles and interactions.

Still a work-in-progress but it appears, initially at least, the invention is viable and will function close
to what is claimed. Since the device is relatively simple and I have a modern CNC machine shop,
a replication will likely be attempted (after the in-process Holcomb LinGen and, next-in-que, Perendev
designs are finished).

Note that I don't find any good reasons to publish much on the open forums anymore for obvious
reasons... however I'll keep the group informed as things progress [but it won't be anywhere near as
detailed as the LinGen was].

SL

BorisKrabow

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #259 on: March 22, 2023, 03:47:53 AM »
So, show us your measurements.
bi
                     Hi!   This video is from another thread, this device showed the reversal of Lenz's Law.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANXhrdRNrss              but even here it is clear that the stronger the magnets interact, the weaker the middle and the stronger the field at the ends. This happens until the two magnets merge into one magnet. And this composite magnet has a field in the center equal to Zero.

          Perhaps I am far away and cut off from the generally accepted opinion, but it is already doubtful to draw lines of force through a magnetically hard material on a par with a magnetically soft material.

         here another strange phenomenon can occur, at a certain percentage of interaction between the magnets, a rapid restructuring of the properties of the magnets can occur. In this case, the connection between the rotor and the stator can be momentarily lost :). There are many such little-studied phenomena and it is impossible to model them.

              first you need to model without a stator, the overall picture and understanding will be clearer.

          From all that I have said, a simple conclusion is that we need an exact replication of this device.
        These are not all phenomena, I will leave a couple of surprises for myself for now ........ :)  :)


                         Boris
           

               

SolarLab

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #260 on: March 22, 2023, 06:37:30 AM »
                     Hi!   This video is from another thread, this device showed the reversal of Lenz's Law.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANXhrdRNrss              but even here it is clear that the stronger the magnets interact, the weaker the middle and the stronger the field at the ends. This happens until the two magnets merge into one magnet. And this composite magnet has a field in the center equal to Zero.

          Perhaps I am far away and cut off from the generally accepted opinion, but it is already doubtful to draw lines of force through a magnetically hard material on a par with a magnetically soft material.

         here another strange phenomenon can occur, at a certain percentage of interaction between the magnets, a rapid restructuring of the properties of the magnets can occur. In this case, the connection between the rotor and the stator can be momentarily lost :) . There are many such little-studied phenomena and it is impossible to model them.

              first you need to model without a stator, the overall picture and understanding will be clearer.

          From all that I have said, a simple conclusion is that we need an exact replication of this device.
        These are not all phenomena, I will leave a couple of surprises for myself for now ........ :) :)


                         Boris
           

             
Hey Boris - take a break until you have really figured it out - just IMHO!

SL



BorisKrabow

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #261 on: March 22, 2023, 07:44:53 AM »
Hey Boris - take a break until you have really figured it out - just IMHO!

SL

          I agree with you my measurement methods are inaccurate, the knowledge is not deep enough and often there is too much humor in my posts . I'm trying to share my observations and suggestions for those who want to use it. Of course, it should be clear to all readers that any new phenomenon or statement must pass several independent tests.
                                     It was an attempt to be self-critical, to conduct introspection and explain to everyone on the forum my style of work. No offense   :)

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #262 on: March 22, 2023, 08:41:43 AM »
More contributions from both of you would be appreciated. Purpose of forums, is it not?
bi

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #263 on: March 22, 2023, 09:09:53 AM »
                     ...
              first you need to model without a stator, the overall picture and understanding will be clearer.
...

This is nothing more than a magnetic shaft coupling. It is well understood.
Outer stator and rotating magnets are simple cogging. Again, well understood.
Combination is unseen before. Attempting to understand details of interaction.
Your help/insights are appreciated.
Regards
bi

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #264 on: March 22, 2023, 09:20:46 AM »
Hey Boris - take a break until you have really figured it out - just IMHO!

SL

SL's opinion, not mine.
bi

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #265 on: March 22, 2023, 09:37:41 AM »
                     Hi!   This video is from another thread, this device showed the reversal of Lenz's Law.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANXhrdRNrss     

I don't see connection to Lenz, but off-topic, IMO.


        but even here it is clear that the stronger the magnets interact, the weaker the middle and the stronger the field at the ends. This happens until the two magnets merge into one magnet. And this composite magnet has a field in the center equal to Zero.

Agree


          Perhaps I am far away and cut off from the generally accepted opinion, but it is already doubtful to draw lines of force through a magnetically hard material on a par with a magnetically soft material.

Maybe, but it's the lines outside that we deal with. Current modeling techniques seem to work quite well.


         here another strange phenomenon can occur, at a certain percentage of interaction between the magnets, a rapid restructuring of the properties of the magnets can occur. In this case, the connection between the rotor and the stator can be momentarily lost :).

Is this different from cogging?


There are many such little-studied phenomena and it is impossible to model them.

              first you need to model without a stator, the overall picture and understanding will be clearer.

          From all that I have said, a simple conclusion is that we need an exact replication of this device.
        These are not all phenomena, I will leave a couple of surprises for myself for now ........ :)  :)


                         Boris
           

             

Yes, I would love to see accurate replication, or better tests of original. Until then, research and discussion will suffice.
Regards
bi

r2fpl

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #266 on: March 22, 2023, 09:46:28 AM »
Why would the field of the magnet N change from 1 to 2? N is a magnet that is very strongly attracted to the stator steel. You can only use force to move it to position 2. You can use an electric field or move it manually, e.g. by pulling it. This is what the magnet inside does.
All I see here is a jump torque and nothing else. It looks nice but when we make it, for example, generators, there will be no profit because there will be no jump! only movement. Why ? because we have reverse currents that inhibit the flashover.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the guy built something that he thought would work. If it worked, there would be a queue of applicants for its patent.

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #267 on: March 22, 2023, 10:37:13 AM »
Are you able to calculate and display force at each increment between position 1 and position 2? While all the time the center director is changing its gaps affecting total circuit reluctance? Then we can get somewhere but still need to enter dynamics with moments of inertia.

But your question. Static picture at 2 is same as at 1, if director is in relative same position.

My take.
bi

sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #268 on: March 22, 2023, 11:01:50 AM »
Your restraint is far greater than mine :-D
Wise to remain doubtful, the more we notice, the less convincing a case it appears to become.

I imagine the one-way bearing's job might be to prevent the COP 1:2 phase on one side of either first or second stage?
Or would that serve another, unconnected role?
Apologies if this has been discussed, but would the second stage (rotor) never get into a situation of risking kickback? A one-way bearing on that mounted to the stator, couldn't hurt?
Alternatively I could imagine a flywheel mounted via one-way bearing to either interruptor, rotor, or both. The flywheel could be driven by spring load to keep pace with its associated member, and then more or less lock in that speed for it member through the one-way bearing. It's a different things to be prevened negative rotation, and to run into a hard flywheel connection when slowing down. Intuitively I'd want to try and keep the accelerated positive rotation mostly disconnected from the flywheel, although input smoothening may well turn out advantageous anyway.


With the much larger momentum on the second shaft i do not think thats a concern.


As for the difference between a mechanical planetary gear and this magnetic analogy
theres really not much to contrast. The physics are almost identical save swapping mechanical friction for the magnetic gearing interface.
The magnitude of either is solely dependent upon the quality of construction.


There are some limitations I notice at small device sizes or large magnetic ‘gear tooth counts’
There is an unavoidable field blending that will limit how close the components can be to one another.


more teeth will mean larger machine diameter’s or possibly stacking them along the shaft to keep fields apart.


There is an acceleration time period; where energy is being consumed by the primary circuit
but the secondary rotor has not yet reached generation speeds
This time period may be a key point for analysis.


Also what is not known clearly is
the affect of drawing current from the output on secondary rotor RPM
Also, probably key information






r2fpl

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #269 on: March 22, 2023, 12:04:40 PM »
Are you able to calculate and display force at each increment between position 1 and position 2? While all the time the center director is changing its gaps affecting total circuit reluctance? Then we can get somewhere but still need to enter dynamics with moments of inertia.

But your question. Static picture at 2 is same as at 1, if director is in relative same position.

My take.
bi

The question is, is it supposed to work with or without a load? This is essential.
If without then the torque of inertia is fine as long as the revs aren't too high. If with a load, for example with a coil, there will be no torque at all.
Have you seen a magnet fall onto a solid block of copper? here is the answer.