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Author Topic: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!  (Read 52648 times)

Cloxxki

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #210 on: March 16, 2023, 12:17:50 AM »
A set of strong magnets that are locked together, we can twist to release. If we the angle one magnet to attract the other, we can easily a few fingers in the quick snap back together. No gain there, but we COULD restain the hand held magnet before aligning it, much like the one-way bearing is doing here.
If that 3-phase or whatever to call that offset always requires less torque to twist off one and be attracted by the next, that's quite something. Why they'd not have a good runner with their sizable setup then seems puzzling, even if at low rpm.
Sure, a jagging rotation is to be expected, but could one not simply add more offsets in smaller increments to smoothen that out? A well designed (calculated) non-round cog timing system should further help "iron" out jarring effects, perhaps to the point of obsoleting the one-way bearings?
If their torque and rpm reading are reasonabily representable rather than cherry picked, it appears some vital information is withheld as to why they don't have a runner. What might it be? Alternator minimum rpms, can't they put the torque through a gear multiplier? The losses are much greater than with gear reductions.
Thinking of a mechanical feedback loop from output shaft to interrrupter shaft, I could imagine a slight over-gearing through a non-toothed belt drive. The input shaft always "drives" ahead of the output shaft. Spring tension is also something I could imagine, but if the invention truly is UO, I'd expect a runaway situation or at least an equilibrium of high loss, high heat, high wear at some rpm.
Might the system accumulate heat that diminishes the returns of the over-torque characteristic?

As usual with these things, many questions and base don prior cases, limited expectations as to the arrival of any answers.
How many millions to get those answers? :)

panyuming

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #211 on: March 16, 2023, 02:16:47 AM »
Can you please post the numbers that the simulation puts out ?

Regards, Stefan.

Thanks to Stefan for joining the discussion.

I don't know much about that software,
I just learned it during the 30-day trial period.
Probably get the following data.

I can see that the position of the parts in the diagram is very small,
and the force is much worse.
It seems that the magnetic field lines are not significantly different.
I did not learn how to move parts precisely in diagrams.

I changed the method of moving parts and got Figure 8.

The force is generated by magnetic field lines.
It should be that the magnetic field lines are similar, and the force is similar.
Precise calculations may be required to get quantified results.
I don't have such abilities.

panyuming

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #212 on: March 16, 2023, 02:31:19 PM »
Hello everyone!
Re-simulate Corbin Motor, as shown in Figure 9.
The center magnet aligns the stator salient pole with the rotor long arm.
Magnetic field lines are dense and do not rotate easily.

As shown in Figure 10, the center magnet is rapidly rotated 90 degrees,
There are few magnetic field lines between the long arm of the rotor and the salient pole of the stator,
It's very easy to rotate.
https://overunity.com/19405/magnetic-flux-motor-just-patented-that-creates-its-own-electricity/msg574831/#msg574831


If the magnet in the center is fixed together with the long arm of the rotor, it cannot be rotated.

If the center magnet is replaced with a solenoid coil.
When the long arm of the rotor needs to leave the stator salient pole,
the coil is de-energized, which is very labor-saving.

When the rotor arm is sent to the solenoid coil before it wants to align with the next stator salient pole,
the rotor arm is magnetically accelerated to rotate to the next stator salient pole.
See Figures 11 and 12

So as Mr. Bistander said, it's Stepper Motor.

With such a structure, can the effect of the long arm still be shown?
Is there still a torque amplification effect of the long arm?

Then, I equated it to look like this.     Reply #142
https://overunity.com/19405/magnetic-flux-motor-just-patented-that-creates-its-own-electricity/msg574967/#msg574967
It's more like Stepper Motor.

However, the hope that Reply #142 gives me is that the coil structure,
unlike Stepper Motor, is not a separate coil on each stator pole.
Reply #142 uses a monolithic coil.


When the coil is energized, the rotor is not aligned with the stator salient pole,
which is equivalent to a large air gap in the iron core of the integral coil.
The coil inductance is relatively small.
Inductance at this point = L1.
The magnetic energy in the inductor is W1 = 1/2 L1 I2       
When the rotor is aligned with the stator salient pole,
the overall coil core has the smallest air gap and the largest inductance.
In this case, the inductance = L2, i.e. W2 = 1/2 L2 I2 
Because L2 > L1, W2>W1.     

In practice, when the rotor is aligned with the stator salient pole,
the power supply to the coil is stopped,
and the energy in the inductor is recovered using the back EMF.


In this way, is the recovered energy W2 greater than the energy W1 transmitted?
In fact, the rotor is rotating, and the current is changing.
The inductance is also changing.
I do not have the ability to calculate these cases with the integral formula.
W1, W2 are all rough estimates by me.
Probably there is a big difference here.
Causes W2>W1 to error.

Is this the same as what people call 'parametric oscillations'?


Also, if W2=W1, or W2 is slightly less than W1.
In the case of little loss of electrical energy,
It does get a strong mechanical rotational energy.
Will this be OU?  :)

Cloxxki

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #213 on: March 16, 2023, 02:52:13 PM »
So Corbin presents three stacked phases of rotor only magnetically interfacing with a central prime axle.

Are the three to be condered fully isolated magnetically, or might the action on one interrruptor/rotor sub-interface also affect the flux lines on other sub-interfaces? Assuming they are less than perfectly isolated, the rpple effect can be either negative or positive, I suppose?

With unlimited funding, I'd build a copy of the setup, but with a carbonfiber prime axle, much larger axial spacing between the sub-interfaces, and look for differences in behavior at low and high speed. Spring loading individual interrupters from the central axle may further help or worsen performance at various speeds.

kolbacict

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #214 on: March 16, 2023, 03:33:41 PM »
I have such a flashlight.
I disassembled it. And I did not see Stovbunenko's teeth in the design of the generator. Why ?
Obviously it could work better with this.

ramset

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #215 on: March 16, 2023, 06:35:24 PM »
So Corbin presents “

“With unlimited funding, I'd build a copy of the setup, “
Cloxxi
Hold that thought.. for educational purposes there just might be a path forward…


Our problem here has been too many pots on various fires ,
Priority one
Open source no excuses !!
And an organization which will support this ( as per Stefan’s mission statement)
This open source community has TREMENDOUS resources!
Just all spread out ( less effective)
Let’s try to fix that !


Respectfully
Chet K
PS
Will be engaging moderators and Stefan ( he is in process of organizing a moderator group here) to see our options …probably start a topic soon !




bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #216 on: March 16, 2023, 07:46:42 PM »
Hello panyuming,
I like your work. However Mike's device uses a soft iron radial director as central (center) input member. It is not Permanent Magnet. The arms on the outer rotor are PM. Then outer stator is again soft iron. It is symmetrical. Analyzing one half, magnetic path has 2 gaps. These 2 gaps:
Have equal energy?
Have equal air gap distance?
Difficult to model, in my opinion.

Also question why you look at inductance when there is no coil?

Also, outer stator can take energy from system but not deliver energy to system. It can convert core and eddy to heat. It also stores energy in magnetic field by cogging.

Center radial director/PM bar on rotor are a clutch and "spring". It can transmit energy, store energy and dissipate energy (convert to heat). Its only source of energy is rotation/torque of shaft from prime mover.

Trying to visualize mechanical rotational system analysis diagram and state equations but been too many years and never had example problems include PMs. Interesting puzzle. Yet to see any possible gain mechanism.

Carry on, please.
bi

panyuming

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #217 on: March 17, 2023, 12:29:25 AM »
Hello panyuming,
I like your work. However Mike's device uses a soft iron radial director as central (center) input member. It is not Permanent Magnet. The arms on the outer rotor are PM. Then outer stator is again soft iron. It is symmetrical. Analyzing one half, magnetic path has 2 gaps. These 2 gaps:

Thank you Bistander!
I misread Corbin's design. The long arm is PM.
I don't understand.
I can only say that I think my pictures work better:)
It made everyone laugh.

SolarLab

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #218 on: March 17, 2023, 05:54:29 AM »
Thank you Bistander!
I misread Corbin's design. The long arm is PM.
I don't understand.
I can only say that I think my pictures work better:)
It made everyone laugh.


Hi Panyuming,

First off - don't worry about it! We've all managed to get things mixed up a bit from time to time,
the only way to avoid that is to do "nothing - then you can't mix things up because you do nothing!

Using CAE is very difficult, but as time goes you get more seasoned and that pays off big time in
the end (I know this from experience) and you will end up being well ahead of herd in the end.

Nice work so far - and it's quite easy to change the materials (magnet and steel) around. A major
advantage when using a CAE approach.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your work and keep at it - over the ten+ years of following these boards
your much further ahead, even at this point, than 99.9% of the other participants, trust me!

And, don't worry, those few that have "been there and done that" are not laughing - only the idiots
and lamers will dare laugh...

SL


panyuming

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #219 on: March 17, 2023, 07:44:20 AM »
Hi Panyuming,

First off - don't worry about it! We've all managed to get things mixed up a bit from time to time,
the only way to avoid that is to do "nothing - then you can't mix things up because you do nothing!


Thank you!

Then I'll continue to be funny.

I then simulate the rotor long arm to PM,
Figure 13.
Even if the center part is rotated 90 degrees,
The magnetic field lines at the stator salient pole are still very dense,
It shows that such a structure is laborious to rotate.
Actually, I don't think it can be rotated.

Well, it can be rotated and the video has a display.

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2023, 04:44:36 PM »
Hi panyuming,
This was problem I saw. So make air gap larger at the stator tooth than air gap at radial director. Length of air gap is radial distance between iron face and magnet. The longer gap will have less force. Having lower force at the outer gap will allow rotor to move with the force at the inner director air gap.

The other variable influencing force at the air gap is the area or coverage of magnet face/tooth face. Per arc distance (or degree of rotation), this area decreases more at the stator compared to the inner director. Since this case uses same magnet (rectangular), at opposite ends, displacement at the ends are not equal, and affect each other due to common magnetic circuit.

I like to think the limit case. If outer gap is very large, there is no resistance to movement at inner gap. As outer gap decreases, attractive forces between magnet/stator tooth start to oppose movement of rotor to follow the radial director rotation. But the radial displacement of inner radial director/magnet will affect flux & force of outer magnet/stator tooth. At some point, attraction of director to magnet is just a bit greater than attractive force of magnet/stator tooth. Then rotation will start and continue, with cogging.

It is a complex puzzle to me.
bi



SolarLab

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #221 on: March 17, 2023, 10:37:04 PM »
MOTORFLUX "kick-back"

I'm sure most are aware of the MotorFlux kick-back but I'll document it anyway.
Probably the reasoning behind the use of "one-way bearings."

Attached is a pdf of a series of snapshots from "The Motoflux Principle: How it Works"
video by Mike Corbin - https://www.motofluxpower.com/

SL

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #222 on: March 17, 2023, 11:29:53 PM »
Here's a nice graphic of cogging torque per radial position.
From:
Torque Ripple of Permanent Magnet Synchronous Torque Motor
Autor: Ing. Jan Moravec
Vedoucí: Doc. Ing. Pavel Souček, DrSc.

bi

SolarLab

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #223 on: March 18, 2023, 01:40:28 AM »
Motorflux Torque Curves

It appears the " Torque Curves" provided in Corbin's "Proof-of-Concept" video
follow the theoretical curves given above.

In particular the "Control Motor Input Torque" - attached.

The variance in RPM and Load is also somewhat apparent.

Attached a pdf for easy comparative study as well.

SL

bistander

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Re: Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!
« Reply #224 on: March 18, 2023, 06:01:15 AM »
Motorflux Torque Curves

It appears the " Torque Curves" provided in Corbin's "Proof-of-Concept" video
follow the theoretical curves given above.

In particular the "Control Motor Input Torque" - attached.

The variance in RPM and Load is also somewhat apparent.

Attached a pdf for easy comparative study as well.

SL

Thanks SL,
I had not previously noticed that first chart in your pdf labelled "Start-up". I find it very interesting. One assumes the torque sensors are recording as the control motor is started. You can clearly see on the lower trace (torque input lb.ft.) a linear ramp up to ~0.5 lb.ft. and then a sudden break downward. I can't read the sample point on the x-axis, but you can see the vertical grid up through the upper trace. That upper trace remains steady right at 6.0 lb.ft. from the start to that grid line at the point (time) which input torque starts to decrease. As the input torque decreases (lower trace), the output torque also decreases (upper trace). While input torque decreases linearly about -0.65 lb.ft., the output torque decreases a bit less, about -0.5 lb.ft. slightly curved. From there on, the traces oscillate as expected of cogging torque, the lower trace around ~0 average and the upper trace around ~5.7 lb.ft. The magnitudes of the torque ripple for both curves appear to be about the same.

Very strange, in my opinion. It leads me to believe that output torque sensor was biased to 6.0 lb.ft. in the static condition prior to and throughout the test. Then that the measured and recorded input and output torques are approximately equal in magnitude.

Just offering my observations. I'll post a copy of your pdf chart for convenience. Also a copy of the cogging torque calculation from the pdf in my prior post.
bi