Author Topic: Mechanical resonant oscillation as basic overunity method (Read 5797 times)

perpetual · « **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2023, 07:37:14 PM »

No, you did claim that as everyone can see.

Your escape attempts are in vain, your claims are general and unambiguous.

You wrote referring to tube filled with water above the water tank

"The taller the tube the greater the pressure at its bottom."

That is false. Pressure at the bottom is one atmosphere no matter if tube is 1 meter tall or 10 meters tall.

You also claimed in multiple posts that there is no energy gain here, which is also wrong.

Confess your sins.

Nix

Willy · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2023, 07:46:34 PM »

this is only a part of the quote but....

Quote from: Willy on April 19, 2023, 07:27:19 PM

1. "So, you claimed pressure at the bottom rises with height of the tube "

2. "and that there is no energy gain here."

I will modify my statements from above for you, to this below.

1. "So, you (Willy) claimed pressure at the bottom rises with height of the tube "

2. "and that there is no energy gain here."

No I will not respond to this. More specific please.

1. To eliminate all confusion, you must first describe HERE IN, for me, that tube and the conditions it is under.

2. Only after #1 is satisfied, will I move on to the second.

Willy · « **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2023, 07:56:30 PM »

Quote from: perpetual on April 19, 2023, 07:37:14 PM

No, you did claim that as everyone can see.

Your escape attempts are in vain, your claims are general and unambiguous.

You wrote referring to tube filled with water above the water tank

"The taller the tube the greater the pressure at its bottom."

That is false. Pressure at the bottom is one atmosphere no matter if tube is 1 meter tall or 10 meters tall.

You also claimed in multiple posts that there is no energy gain here, which is also wrong.

Confess your sins.

Nix

More precise description please.

Is this tube (high lighted in red above) ....
1. sealed at its upper end ?
2. filled with water ?
3. its bottom end is immersed below the water line of a tank of water ?
4. most of the tube has been lifted above the water line of the tank of water below it ?

perpetual · « **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:02:37 PM »

You are clearly too immature to admit your mistakes as an adult should. I made mistakes too, i ADMITTED them.

You on the other hand pathetically try to troll instead of simply admitting you are wrong.

In case anyone is not familiar, this is about the principle i proposed starting with this post

https://overunity.com/18434/simple-and-powerful-principle/msg576431/#msg576431

From there onward you can read all my and his posts, it is very clear he denied energy gain in this principle.

And he - referring to the noted principle in which tube is filled with water and is almost completely above the water tank it sits in - claimed pressure at the bottom of the tube rises with height of the tube.

Well, nope. It does not. It is 1 atmosphere, contrary to your claim.

Your refusal to admit the obvious is taken as an admission that you are wrong.

Nix

Willy · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:07:39 PM »

You say that I "try to troll". To be clear, does this mean that you want me to not post here
again ?

a precise description below...

this tube
1. sealed at its upper end
2. filled with water
3. its bottom end is immersed below the water line of a tank of water
4. most of the tube has been lifted above the water line of the tank of water below it

has a vacuum relative to the pressure outside it. That vacuum is greater near to the top
of the tube than is the vacuum present near to the bottom of that tube.

That vacuum drops to zero at the tank's water line.

perpetual · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:16:10 PM »

You are trying to troll your way out of admitting your mistakes, but you fail there as well.

No, i do not want you to stop posting here, i never said or implied that.

Since you decided to act like a 5yo refusing to admit your mistakes there is no point in pursuing the issue.

Obviously sealed at its upper end, filled with water, its bottom end is immersed below the water line of a tank of water and most of the tube has been lifted above the water line of the tank of water below it - this was clearly described and you knew it when you made the claims.

Fact remains pressure at the bottom does NOT rise with height, it is 1 atmosphere, contrary to your claim.

And also this system should be around 200% efficient, possibly more, also contrary to your claim.

Now, keep acting like a 5yo or stand behind your claims like an adult.

Nix

Willy · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:44:59 PM »

partial quote below only

Quote from: perpetual on April 19, 2023, 08:16:10 PM

Obviously sealed at its upper end, filled with water, its bottom end is immersed below the water line of a tank of water and most of the tube has been lifted above the water line of the tank of water below it - this was clearly described and you knew it when you made the claims.

Fact remains pressure at the bottom does NOT rise with height, it is 1 atmosphere, contrary to your claim.

this tube
1. sealed at its upper end
2. filled with water
3. its bottom end is immersed below the water line of a tank of water
4. most of the tube has been lifted above the water line of the tank of water below it

has a vacuum relative to the pressure outside it (above the tank's water line).
That vacuum is greater near to the top of the tube than is the vacuum present
near to the bottom of that tube.

That vacuum drops to zero at the tank's water line.
[/quote]

now we are getting some where...

The pressure relative to the surrounding air pressure (rather than vacuum) is zero
at the tank's water line
and
below the tank's water line the pressure relative to the surrounding air pressure is greater
than the surrounding air pressure
and
the farther below the tank's water line the greater that pressure becomes relative to the
surrounding air pressure.

There is my confession, part 1. Does this satify you as part 1 ?

perpetual · « **Reply #37 on:** April 19, 2023, 08:56:16 PM »

You are using term vacuum instead of partial vacuum, vacuum is created only if height difference is 10.3 meters or more.

But sure, you finally admitted pressure at the bottom does not rise with height of the tube.

What about your claim that there is no energy gain here.

Willy · « **Reply #38 on:** April 19, 2023, 09:13:57 PM »

Agree
"partial vacuum" rather than "vacuum" is the correct phrase or word choice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum

However, since you bring this up. Does not this not indicate that you already
understood the phrase "vacuum relative to the surrounding air pressure" to mean
partial vacuum ? Why under the conditions being discussed, would anyone assume
other wise ?

perpetual · « **Reply #39 on:** April 19, 2023, 10:54:31 PM »

Firstly, in your sentence where you finally admitted your sin

"The pressure relative to the surrounding air pressure (rather than vacuum) is zero
at the tank's water line"

"rather than vacuum" part is unnecessary. You are comparing pressure inside the tube at water line to pressure outside the tube at water line aka surrounding atmospheric pressure, there is absolutely no need to say "rather than vacuum" or partial vacuum. And in the first place there is no need to even complicate the issue with "the pressure relative to...", as i've been saying from the beginning pressure at the bottom of the tube (at waterline) IS the surrounding atmospheric pressure.

Now, you totally misunderstood why i brought up the "partial vacuum", it is not that in your sentence "rather than..." partial vacuum must be used instead of vacuum. Whole "rather than" thing is redundant.

I said partial vacuum referring to vacuum at the top of the tube. Technically, it is never a perfect vacuum cause even after 10.3 meter height long before perfect vacuum is created water boils and cold steam fills that space, it is surely not vacuum.

At lower heights there is no vacuum at all, partial or complete. Tube is completely filled with water, how can there be vacuum. It is only that pressure that water experiences toward the top is smaller than 1 atmosphere proportionally to difference in height and we all know air pressure falls with height.

Why the 10.3 meter limit (or little less), what is vapor pressure etc is nicely explained in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHNoHhbfFDQ

Nix

Willy · « **Reply #40 on:** April 19, 2023, 11:24:19 PM »

Very well then sir, shall we continue on, toward and through #2 ?

#2. I willy say that "there is no energy gain here."

As before we both agree to ...

That in order to eliminate all confusion, YOU must first describe HERE IN, for me, the conditions
under which I have claimed "there is no energy gain here".

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #41 on:** April 19, 2023, 11:46:04 PM »

analyze the power input to each of the examples
include the energy required to reach resonance speed.

Add the energy input every cycle (at resonance)

Compare these added totals to the amount of fluid pumped.

results prove that a flywheel is more efficient than any of the examples.

perpetual · « **Reply #42 on:** April 19, 2023, 11:49:21 PM »

Ok, let's say conditions are a 10 meter tall tube half meter wide, obviously fully filled with water above a water pool wide enough to support such large column of water.

We got a steel spindle, elongated, sharp pointed, water resistance minimized.

Spindle has 10kg but due to air chamber inside it has -10kg in water.

Spindle is inserted at the bottom of the tube and let go.

Over a pully -10kg weighing spindle is spinning - for the sake of argument - 100% efficient generator and all energy - the tiny losses due to water resistance is captured in the capacitors or batteries.

As spindle hits the top small valve is opened on it, it releases the air out, now it weighs 10kg and free falls back to the bottom again spinning the generator and all the energy is again captured.

Once back at the bottom pump is pumping the air released at the top through a small tube running vertically through the whole big tube back into the spindle.

Cycle repeats.

Question, what is the energy needed to pump the air back down into spindle.

First and logical assumption would be energy equal to energy needed to lift the displaced weight of water (10kg) to that height (10m).

And energy to lift 10kg to that height is equal to energy spindle generated IN ONE DIRECTION, whether falling up or down, two being exactly the same.

Thus, energy produced in one direction is completely free and efficiency of the system is around 200%.

Additional info. It is possible altho not very likely that energy needed to pump the air back down is even less due to the fact this is not exactly the same situation as when suction is created from above the tube. Here, pumping is done from the bottom through the tube going up. It is clearly seen in video below he fills this big tube with few breaths and it appears effortless.

https://youtu.be/6RnorkCkEqI?t=59

Of course this is far far from a 10m tube.

It is hard to be sure if energy needed to pump the air back down is less than spindle generates as it falls up or down, but it is definitely not more.

Nix

sm0ky2 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 19, 2023, 11:53:46 PM »

Want to measure the vacuum force inside this ‘sealed, partially submerged’ tube?
It is equal to the force required to hold that tube above the waterline.

Willy · « **Reply #44 on:** April 20, 2023, 12:10:42 AM »

Quote from: sm0ky2 on April 19, 2023, 11:53:46 PM

Want to measure the vacuum force inside this ‘sealed, partially submerged’ tube?
It is equal to the force required to hold that tube above the waterline.

Agree

Given that for the sake of the discussion, we assign a value to the EMPTY tube as having
neither weight nor buoyancy in either atmosphere or water.

word EMPTY was late edited in for clarity... willy

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Author Topic: Mechanical resonant oscillation as basic overunity method (Read 5797 times)

perpetual

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Willy

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perpetual

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Willy

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perpetual

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perpetual

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perpetual

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sm0ky2

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perpetual

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