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Author Topic: An energy harvesting project  (Read 16597 times)

sm0ky2

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2022, 04:14:08 PM »
the same applies in reverse (as such occurs in the bendini and other pulse/gen motor assemblies):


momentum of the rotor induces current in the gen coil, the field parameters (outside of the coil) affect the rotation of the rotor.
it would stand to reason, that if the gen coil were properly shielded: the negative effects would be reduced to ONLY the inductance factor of the coil itself, and NOT the back-emf.


heading back into the drive field, the same would apply.


now, instead of a shielding - we implement an inductor to absorb the unused portion of the field, thus not only reducing back-emf, but actually harvesting it.

AlienGrey

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2022, 05:35:56 PM »
Is that what you think ?

So what the difference between DC and a square wave and again whats the difference between those two
and a sine wave ?

I give it some thought !

sil

ramset

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2022, 06:09:28 PM »

Bump , post #28 for topic info moved forward ( comments and attached links)


https://overunity.com/19286/an-energy-harvesting-project/15/

Hi all,

To address some questions, I started my tests with four identical coils and one 'litzed' coil, which is the format where you have several strands twisted together to form a trigger coil inside another. This is a system recommended in the SG books to do the triggering for the FET but I never found it to work. So during this year, I rewound the 5th coil to be the same as all the others. So they all have an inductance of about 350-400mH and around 12-15Ohms. When connected up in parallel then of course the combined readings will change to perhaps around 20-30mH and 1-2 Ohms.

The coils were not tuned in any way. I put on as many turns of wire as the plastic spools would take (~2600) and used a ferrite rod in the core. The coils are only doing the 'natural' thing of building up a mag field and then resisting the collapse when the current shuts off as described by Lenz's Law. In my opinion, there is no tuning of the coils required and the only ‘tuning’ of a sort is the matching of the PRF (Pulse Repetition Frequency) of the pulse to best suit the receiving battery, as described in my doc. This is not a resonant phenomenon but rather an optimisation to get the best results with the minimum energy input.

The circuity I have assembled is straightforward electronically speaking even though it may look complicated. If there is any 'magic' going on in this device it is where the pulses meet the battery electrodes. My working theory, one that I can’t test with this setup, is that the high dV/dt (~10E8 V/s) is stressing the local space around the battery terminals and causing a local and temporary coherence in the vacuum that results in a short 'scoop' or burst of charge into the electrode vicinity. The battery then processes that in the normal way. I have no evidence of that and my research is primarily to demonstrate a phenomenon of energy gain (harvesting) and not to determine the pathway or mechanism of the energy influx. That may come later, and in the inductive scientific method, it should.

I also wanted to mention that I have added some more documents to the Mega files.

Firstly, I have revised the 'Suggestions' doc to include a paragraph (p9) regarding my suggestions on the essential elements of a generator that could be assembled based on my findings. There is no need to build a device as 'complicated' as mine and one can omit the rotor system and cap dump circuit. My design was as such only because I had to accommodate all the possible variables to find out what worked and what didn't. Although I said that I would be required to produce a revised PCB design to accompany my forthcoming paper, I have decided to bring that forward to before the end of the year to help those wanting to replicate a build. So I will prepare a revised PCB design, and the Gerber files for anyone to be able to get it printed, which removes those parts that I found not to be essential. It will be accompanied by a set of assembly notes.

For those new to this thread, the link to the files is at the bottom of the attached and revised 'Suggestions v2' doc

Also, I have added another file to the folders called 'Battery Swapper & Timer Circuit' that explains how that works and how to set up specific swap times using the CD4060 chip which is part of the swapper circuit. This file is also attached here.

Lastly, I have decided to undertake some additional experimentation using supercapacitors. Now that they have come down radically in price and size, some extra data using them will add further validation to the phenomenon. Although I believe that the suggestion that the energy gain is due to some chemistry artifact in the battery is not valid, since the batteries are never supplying energy at the same time as they are being charged, nevertheless, using pure electrostatics and fields to store the energy in supercapacitors will be both interesting and get round any questions over chemistry playing some unsuspecting role. Of course, as a scientist, I would have to be open to that possibility but from the work so far I can't see how it can be the cause of the energy gain and CoP>>1 results. The battery chemistry is, of course, central to the process of charging and discharging the batteries, but the suggestion that some chemical artifact is the cause of the energy gain may be due to a misunderstanding on how the tests are done and the role of the battery swapper. I will post any results of these experiments during December.

Happy discovering!

Jules

JulesP

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2022, 08:56:30 PM »
Hi all,

As some of you are keen to have a go at a build and have been asking about the main components etc., I attach the wiring diagram for the 'replication' circuit and have uploaded it to the 'Circuits' folder on the same Mega link. If anyone new to this thread needs the link again let me know and I will post it.

As discussed elsewhere, this is an updated PCB to the one I have been using for all my tests and is based on my findings of what works and what doesn't as, in my opinion, is not worth the effort and cost including parts that contribute little or nothing to the performance. This significantly simplifies the design, build, and components required.

The new PCB has now been designed and is currently with https://jlcpcb.com/ for printing. I will assemble this board and replace my current one to check that everything works before I release it for others to use as Gerber files. Also, I have yet to write an extensive 'assembly manual' explaining everything about it, together with a parts list, and I hope to have that, and the board checked, by mid-December. Meanwhile, some of you may find the attached circuit helpful to use with what you already have or are compiling by other means.

A fascinating trip around the facility where these PCBs are made can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljOoGyCso8s&t=1423s

Also, I have now tried the 120k5, 150k5 and 170k5 FETs with the 1800 diode. There is a small improvement on CoP between the 95k5 and the120 and a bigger change between the 120 and the 150 but not so noticeable between the 150 and 170. Some battery formats (Ah and chemistry type) show a bigger improvement than others. Best CoP so far with an 18Ah LiFePO4 battery is 53.2 but I can’t say what that translates to in continuous Watts until I do power tests at the start of the year.

From my few tests so far with the supercapacitors, it appears that the battery chemistry is an important part of the phenomenon. That might mean that the pulses affect the chemical bonds in a way that draws vacuum energy in, just as with cavitation in water which is considered by some to draw in ZPE for the reentrant jets. This is just my speculation re the chemical bonds and I will need to consult with others who are working on that particular front.

For the best overall performance, without a big increase in Rds (Drain-Source resistance), the 150 works well but my new board will allow two FETs to be installed and then jumpers to select which one fires.

I would be ok with uploading a parts list for the forthcoming PCB within the next week if anyone wants a head start on that issue. It’s going to be 99% correct. The other components for the rest of the device will come in December.

J

bistander

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2022, 09:19:28 PM »
... Best CoP so far with an 18Ah LiFePO4 battery is 53.2 but I can’t say what that translates to in continuous Watts until I do power tests at the start of the year.
...

Hello JulesP,
That's a heck of a claim. Please run the simple test which I outlined previously. You have the set-up and it shouldn't take long. Thanks.
bi

For easy reference:

To demonstrate COP > 1, do this.
Start with two batteries, identical.
B1 is fully charged (100%SoC). B2 is partially charged (80% SoC).
Place B1 as Run battery. Place B2 as Receiving battery.
Run system until B2 is fully charged, to 100% SoC.
Switch (manually) B1 and B2.
Run until B1 is fully charged, to 100% SoC.
Switch B2 and B1.
Run until B2 is fully charged, to 100% SoC.
Switch B1 and B2.
Run until B1 is fully charged, to 100% SoC.
Repeat as long as you can.

If the needed run times decrease with each cycle, you have something interesting.
If you are soon, after a few exchanges of B1 and B2, unable to reach 100% SoC on the Receiving battery, COP < 1.
bi

Tarsier_79

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2022, 02:19:20 AM »
You don't need a complicated switching system for a 2 battery system. It can be set up so that Battery 1 feeds into battery 2, then battery 2 feeds into 1 in the next part of rotation.

A cop of 53 is an outrageous claim. Did you mean 1.53?

lota

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2022, 08:21:24 PM »

sm0ky2

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2022, 05:23:54 PM »
Is that what you think ?

So what the difference between DC and a square wave and again whats the difference between those two
and a sine wave ?

I give it some thought !

sil


Fourier shows us that equivalence can be drawn between all of these.

ramset

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2022, 02:00:17 PM »
Julian
I did start a mirror topic here ( just sorted my account there after few years no access)


http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/energetic-forum-discussion/renewable-energy/511656-bedini-style-generator-for-peer-review-cop10-plus#post511656


Respectfully
Chet K

AlienGrey

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2022, 02:13:25 PM »
Chet

Note   
The file you are trying to download is no longer available
[/b]

Sil  >:(

ramset

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2022, 03:09:57 PM »

AG
Yes it was mentioned previously!( post 17 -18 and the work around


https://overunity.com/19286/an-energy-harvesting-project/15/
 PLEASE :mention if the newer links don’t open, it would not be the first timeWe had problems with link access in different parts of world!


Respectfully
Chet K

My original link is being ‘neutralised’ by the system so I will attach the doc directly here as it’s under 15MB.

I should have my ‘suggestions’ doc ready today (uk time).

A quick comment about ‘looping’. Yes looping the output back to the input is a good way of seeing if a device is indeed harvesting energy (from wherever). Using the two battery system this is actually what is being done in my system but with a delay equal to the swap time. This is all explained in the other doc ‘Load Testing’ where I layout my methodology for doing power tests, guided by the CoP results so far.

For those who haven’t read from the beginning, using the cap dump circuit I was getting CoPs in the 0.8-1.5 range whereas using direct HV pulsing I was getting much better in the 5-15 range (more recent readings). I need to confirm these with the forthcoming power tests and with an appropriate ’level of confidence’.

I repeat that my overall aim is to confirm or refute a phenomenon and not to identify any particular energy pathway.

Anyway here are the two main docs I’m sharing at this time. Another will come later today.

J

Goat

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2022, 02:56:38 AM »
Hi All;
I think that I have experienced this phenomenon before way back when I was assessing my Bedini SG setup and the (LAB) Lead acid batteries were not making progress and were slowly discharging over time. 

When I added 4 LIFEPO (lithium iron phosphate battery) batteries in series out of my digital camera instead of charging the LAB battery the LIFEPO batteries received a better charge than the 120 VAC charger where instead of lasting three (3) days they would last well past a week! 

This was mentioned in my posts from way back when I mentioned this effect but I can't figure out how to search my posts to quote it.
If anyone can find the post where I mention being able to charge the LIFEPO batteries better than the LAB then please post a link to it, I think it may be important as far as a proof of replication of how the short sharp shocks have an effect where LIFEPO batteries work in this setup better than LABs.

I think that it would be worth revisiting this circuit with all LIFEPO batteries and the switching circuit as proposed by the OP insted of LABs.
Thanks all,
Paul



JulesP

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2022, 09:16:20 AM »
Hi all,

Just to update you regarding the replication manual that I am preparing for those who would like to replicate my device and findings.

The manual explaining in depth how to replicate the device is almost ready at approaching 80 pages and around 25,000 words, plus additional material in Appendices, including various relevant research papers.

The new PCB v4 has been received and is under construction but ongoing postal strikes here are delaying the arrival of a few components that are required to complete the circuit build. Until I have done that then I can’t finalize the text of some parts of the manual, for example, the diagnostics section.

So generally everything is coming along fine but I won’t make the manual 'live' until the PCB has been completed, installed, and checked. Nevertheless, I am providing the link to the folders below so that you can explore the additional material and the research papers while awaiting the manual and PCB files. I also attach a photo of the new board being assembled and screen grabs of the front cover and contents of the manual. I am hoping it will be up before Xmas and if not then soon after.

So here is the link to the replication folders and where, for the time being, the 'Manual' and the 'PCB Files' folders are empty.

https://mega.nz/folder/YUM0nLoT#bYpLIazqMM5K2IrEQjghDQ

For those who are dubious of the CoPs so far obtained then the full methodology is provided in the Manual. Power tests are soon to follow and where the maximum power demand that can be sustained by the system, with battery swapping enabled, will be undertaken such that neither battery drops its voltage below its starting value. Even though these further validating tests are not yet done, the approach is laid out in the Manual. Not too long to wait now but it depends on the postal strikes.


Julian

e2matrix

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2022, 09:06:11 PM »
While this may not be proof of JulesP's work I suggest anyone doubting it they look at his Author blog PDF file in the download provided.  That's an impressive amount of education in related fields.  :o   I tend to doubt he has made any SUE's (stupid user errors) in this work.  I haven't read this whole thread but if the claim of 53 COP has been made I'd tend to believe it if this was correct and not 1.53.  Clarification on that point requested.   I would also agree that at some point having the system looped and running a load for a long enough time which would exceed the potential in the batteries would add to the proof of COP > 1.

Tarsier_79

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Re: An energy harvesting project
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2022, 03:23:55 PM »
Quote
Testing will involve incremental increases to the load to find the point at which a voltage
drop is recorded following the recovery phase after a series of cycles. From that value the
maximum power output that can be sustained is derived

The PDF reads as if the load test hasn't been done at the time of writing. No-one with a bedini has had remotely near the proposed gains. I have not seen one online achieving any overunity.

A COP of 53 means I could run a 1000W bar heater off a cheap car battery for over 30 hours without charging it at all.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.