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Author Topic: 1. The origin of the universe  (Read 6397 times)

Feb2006

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1. The origin of the universe
« on: October 24, 2022, 09:50:06 AM »

An explanation of where we come from ?
Or before Big Bang.
Tru or False its a beautiful explanation.

ramset

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 03:28:32 PM »
Bump
( a painful read for me …mind bending ..however!!
Thanks for sharing


Chet

Feb2006

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 02:46:00 PM »
 
 
 
 
 2. The creation from nothing
   

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 08:20:05 PM »
Bump
( a painful read for me …mind bending ..however!!
Thanks for sharing


Chet

Thank you Chet free response.

There are a few flaws in the article:
quote:
Quote
The speed is steadily increased until it (hypothetically) becomes infinite. The universal creation-deepl c2.pdf 
Quote
Suppose that an iron ball is being hurled around on a rope according to a circular path. The speed is steadily increased until it (hypothetically) becomes infinite. Then the situation can be described as a massive ring of iron because the ball is at every point of that orbit simultaneously. The bullet is then constantly existing at every point.



answer:
the hypothetical BS practically  is a BS nothing more.
Axiom:
Nothing with mass can travel as fast as the speed of light, or faster (according to relativity). !!!!!
Please read article: These 4 Cosmic Phenomena Travel Faster Than The Speed of Light
4-cosmic-phenomena-that-travel-faster-than-the-speed-of-light-


Axiom:
But what  about mass-less photon?:
Photons are massless, and they always move at the speed of light in vacuum, 299 792 458 m/s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
___________________________________________


conclusion:

the guy has a real problem.

and he talks in his article about velocity too.
please start reading from words:
Quote
Once the velocity is infinite, the concepts of velocity and direction of rotation disappear ...
The universal creation-deepl c2.pdf

He doesn't understand the difference between speed and velocity, and phase velocity, and group velocity,
For all of you kids let's start from kindergarten article:
Speed and Velocity, What Are They?
https://www.embibe.com/exams/speed-and-velocity/
then go to high school:
Phase velocity and wave velocity
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/phase-velocity-and-wave-velocity.916026/


and then move to the University but first semester only:
Wave Velocity vs. Phase Velocity
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/251607/wave-velocity-vs-phase-velocity

___________________________________________


summary:

Due to the advance of physics, geology, anthropology, archaeology, Earth science,
creationists : the dying out dinosaurs of collapsing business known as
"making money from nothing" now are trying to convince
the revolting from spirituality crowd to stay spiritual.
An unhappy monk paid by not so happy priest who is paid by  Bishop in fear
and so on...
- is now trying to employ science.

Poor Einstein must be condemned forever (but in secrecy) for limiting speed
of mass into the speed of light.
But Einstein name is too great for the church to condemn him officially..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

however Darwin is even worse....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin

________________________________________________

thousands years ago everything was so simple:
28 and 33 AD,
happy crowd wanted to get heavily drunk
Russian vodka wasn't known yet.
And miracle happened when one of the guys called Jesus turned water into wine, making him a promoter of alcoholism.
But today science  requires  from all tricks and tweaks to be repeatable.

Wesley in few minutes turned all that article from hardly readable into holy gibberish.
but who knows Wesley...
spiritual followers are likely not in his level yet and they don't want to be.
   
holly crap:

anyone wants to respond?
be my guest.



Wesley

Feb2006

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2022, 12:54:11 PM »

Holy crap:


 Spin something faster than light hypothetically.
 That's really stupid....

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2022, 02:53:19 PM »
Holy crap:
Spin something faster than light hypothetically.
 That's really stupid....
animal basic needs are:
air
water
food
shelter
safety
sleep
fur (in some cases)
human animal basic needs are:
air
water
food
shelter
safety
sleep
clothing (in some cases)
___________________________________
human beings are the only animals that can form a concept of their own species and ask how their species differs from others.
But we have a hard time figuring out what our species is, and how it differs from others.

                                                                                        Allen W. Wood

___________________________________
however apart from a need of:
 feeding, fighting, fleeing and uh - reproduction, some of human animals have desire too :
- to go to the bathroom that was built by another animal, and paid
by other spiritual animals, he must become a priest.-their money-collector.
And for that to happen some sort of God must be invented and implemented.

_______________________________________________
and then, that happy animal accompanied by feelings of pleasure after all previous displeasure can shit into the toilet bowl happily ever after..
securing his business with serious pseudo-scientific explanations because
crowd got smarter now days.

Till one day, Albert Einstein comes up with his relativity
Darwin with theory of evolution
and now happy priest animal in fear of revolution can't shit into that toilet
so happily any longer.

Wesley


 


selveti

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 03:04:01 PM »
as long is you stay atheist you will be forever lost ... .. world is advancing forward and you are talking non sense here go look for help in darwin grave see if he will help you cause he was one of the dumb and dumbest.... energy forum thats what people are interested here .. change ur subject

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2022, 03:43:47 PM »
1.stay atheist you will be forever lost ... ..
2.world is advancing forward
3.go look for help in darwin grave   
4.energy  that's what people are interested here ..

questions spiritual animals unlikely responds to:
reg1: lost forever from what? provide the proof, evidence, scientific explanation-based on proven concept.
reg2: world is advancing your standard of life, because of science that leads technology, and not by any other way right?
reg3: is there any scientifically, materialistically present, and practically proven evidence of "help" you talking about?
reg4: I am the animal that is likely leading here with the most of technically advanced and energy related comments out of  3380 of them
am I not?  provide the proof, evidence, scientific explanation

summary:

The animal writing about what happens with infinite velocities is just nonsense.
You might as well theorize what happens when a unicorn spontaneously  comes into existence.
We have discussed that speed is a scalar quantity and velocity is a  vector quantity.
and base on Einstein's theory of relativity the article in question is a complete nonsense.
And that was the purpose of the whole topic here !!!



species:
a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding.
The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g. Homo sapiens.

You my friend are assign officially as a species by science that gave you your computer so you can now write me back.
and if you want to express your opinion in regards to article we were talking about
be my guest
Wesley

Feb2006

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2022, 04:56:53 PM »
Nether Einsteins or Darwins theories are an explanation of whats was-is before Big Bang.

These chapters are the best explanation I come across.
True or false it's a beautiful explanation.
I only post them her for you to read, not to fight over.

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 06:56:59 PM »
Nether Einsteins or Darwins theories are an explanation of whats was-is before Big Bang.
they didn't have to. Their contribution provided elements we are based on, like a bricks, building blocks.
and that is what creates our explanation.
David Albert  Einstein has memorably criticised accounts of the Big Bang which promise to get something from nothing in this way.

I only post them for you to read, not to fight over.
we are not fighting, we are presenting real, scientifically standing opinion
about article written by uneducated author , or completely dumb individual, or individual with  an agenda.


1. nothing comes from nothing
.
For something to exist, there must be material or a component available, and for them to be available, there must be something else available.
The first atoms formed out of simpler particles,
atoms came into existence around one ten-thousandth of a second after the Big Bang.
The first long-lived matter particles of any kind were protons and neutrons, which together make up the atomic nucleus.
and before that there was short-lived elementary particles, including quarks, the building blocks of protons and neutrons
Quark, has an antimatter "mirror image" companion, which is near identical to itself, differing only in one aspect.

However, matter and antimatter annihilate in a flash of energy when they meet, meaning these particles were constantly created and destroyed.

2. even a vacuum,  corresponding to empty spacetime, is full of physical activity in the form of energy fluctuations.
These fluctuations can give rise to particles popping out, only to disappear shortly after.
this process is absolutely present repeatable and achievable today in our labs.

3. spacetime
 "Planck epoch" – a period so early in the Universe's history
This era occurred only one ten-millionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang.
At this point
, space and time themselves became subject to quantum fluctuations

4. quantum state of the entire Universe at the beginning of the Planck epoch.
 -multiverse, which contains an infinite number of parallel universes, or cyclical models of the Universe, being born and reborn again.

And everything is based on one simple factor energy can be converted to mass and reverse.
like electricity to another form of energy , wood into energy in your furnace
And energy can be converted into matter with mass  M = E / c 2. 

In fact, the entire universe was born in the Big Bang when a whole lot of energy was turned into mass.
For example, burning a gallon of gasoline (3.78 liters) releases about 132 million joules of energy,
which is enough energy to make 14 ng of mass. This is roughly the mass of a single particle of very finely ground flour.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Mass-energy_equivalence

however:
Patrick Das Gupta proposed :
when a high energy gamma photon converts to an electron and a positron in the presence of a nucleus,
some books wrongly say that energy has got converted to matter.
 The right thing is: Total energy of the gamma photon, E= h nu has mass h nu/c^2 and is equal to 2 m c^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
where m is the rest mass of the electron, and v is the speed of electron (positron) in the rest frame of the nucleus.
https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-example-of-conversion-of-energy-to-mass-according-to-E-mc2

5.The beginning of times
a four-dimensional fabric called "space-time." (by Einstein)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

it was energy in equilibrium in space-time.
where energy comes from?
https://socratic.org/questions/where-did-the-energy-that-caused-the-big-bang-originate

The pre-inflationary vacuum in the cosmic microwave background
https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/astro-ph/0612006/

________________________________________________________________

conclusion:

in the total and constant equilibrium in
pre-inflationary vacuum there was disturbance that created
manifestation of disbalance in form of energy.
Creationists see in it the holy finger.
Curvature of space-time was disturbed, leading to interaction of elements in
disbalance leading to
big bang
and today's discussion.



How do you know that this is true?

if a man from the beginning of 18 century was told about electromagnetic waves he would expect
a proof of its existence.
However none of scientists nor their critics were able to prove it right or wrong.
-advancement of science provides answers with time and proves it's existence .


-religion
provides answers requesting not to be proven at any time that are changing under the pressure of
  advanced  science and technology with time passing by.

examples:
Copernicus, flipped upside down geocentism from geocentric into heliocentric throwing holy heaven from the sky into nowhere,
Darwin shake hands with gorillas and other animals throwing human into mammals
Albert Einstein screwed Holly creation of creationists throwing holy books into questioning the holiness of disturbed equilibrium
before big bang.
but  time is going on we are finding more answers to our questions that are absolutely not supporting any holiness
and any Gods.

Wesley

Feb2006

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM »

conclusion:

in the total and constant equilibrium in
pre-inflationary vacuum there was disturbance that created
manifestation of disbalance in form of energy.
Creationists see in it the holy finger.
Curvature of space-time was disturbed, leading to interaction of elements in
disbalance leading to
big bang
and today's discussion.


So you believe that the start of the universe was a random event.
Not a conscious creation.
And every one believing so is dumb.
I for one think you are very little man afraid of peeking outside your box.
And be able to se both possibilities.

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2022, 09:59:26 PM »
So you believe that the start of the universe was a random event.
Not a conscious creation.
And every one believing so is dumb.

Physics is based on models.
When model becomes outdated - it is exchanged with the new one.
Ideal physicist  duty is believing in nothing and deliver scientifically supported data.

Everyone has rights to believe in whatever. If you are happy with it that is your business.
Nobody is dump. Diversity makes us smart and professional in something others are not .

A priest     unlikely gets job as a microchip maker in Silicon Valley.
Dentist      unlikely becomes construction guy.
Electrician  unlikely becomes a surgeon.
I for one think you are very little man afraid of peeking outside your box.
And be able to se both possibilities.

A dog barking all around wants to send the message.
but average human animal have a problem to interpret it.
Your arguments, are not listed
Your position in discussion doesn't point at any reference nor facts.
I don't understand the basis of your protest.. nor the dog do...
Give that dog some of Polish kielbasa maybe he starts to understand.
____________________________________________________________
The entire holy gibberish doesn't have facts. Creationists refers to quotes - numbered verses, quoting other people
who were quoting, those before them, who didn't even know how to write it then.
And all that entire holy gibberish was sent from father to son whose son finally learned alphabet.

Give me something physical that I can stand on, that I can analyze can you?
Take any one of my arguments and scrutinize it with knowledge and facts
and I will say thank you..


that entire article (https://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/icons/clip.gif) The universal creation-deepl c1.pdf
is a piece of garbage based on factors listed here:
  Re: 1. The origin of the universe  « Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 08:20:05 PM »



holy crap:
don't tell me that I am wrong - prove me wrong can you?
the problem is that you can't
you are not capable of it
and likely not many people can.



Wesley
« Last Edit: November 28, 2022, 12:25:38 AM by stivep »

ramset

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2022, 02:25:15 PM »
AG shared this today
I think it should be placed here !


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PqMZfr3wMHE


There are things we all experience which we just can’t explain ( and shrug off or dismiss
De-Ja-Vu … etc


I enjoy the content from OP here , I don’t have ability to synthesize it or …
It’s just a place I never go .. my mind is not that big ….like trying to decipher or understand  dejavu…


Perhaps Dr.Greer puts some perspective to other ( non religion) options!


Respectfully
Chet K
PS
Ultimately we are a group searching for FE ( or as some refer overunity)
I actually prefer overunity as this FE sounds like it comes at no cost
And many here have invested lifetime in the hunt !


To make this world a better place for the next generation…


PPS
Back to work….at “this thing we do”
It is the best of “Causes “ !!





Feb2006

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2022, 06:37:08 PM »

What is in those chapters was shared by extraterrestrial beings to a religious human.
So the religious twist comes from the human and is obscuring the original message a bit.
The extraterrestrials believes in som sort of creation they calls it the Omni-Creativity.
Those chapters are from a the original book "de Universele Schepping" and they differs
From the English translation by Wendell Stevens.
I don't believe in GOD but Im open for some sort of creational energies.


11. Appendix from the original book.



"This flux of immaterial ether waves spins opposite to atomic mass. They also move opposite to any other energy flux (with mass). An example is electrical energy. When current flows through a wire, the immaterial ether waves move along the outside of the wire in opposite directions and only these cause the magnetic field. Interruption of that ether flux can stop the electric current. The resistance of the wire becomes infinite, as it were.
The reverse, generating current, we do on a large scale. Changing magnetic fields in fact generate ether fluxes in the first place. The very high-frequency ether fluxes of the atom and gravity can also be extinguished. Both the atomic disintegrator and the antigravity generator are based on this principle. Ether theory is still a blind spot in our science."

stivep

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Re: 1. The origin of the universe
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2022, 03:21:51 AM »
11. Appendix from the original book.
"This flux of immaterial ether waves spins opposite to atomic mass.
ether doesn't exist , never existed and will never exist.
it is   dead concept from 1800ts.
We are not talking about books  or holly books but about lack of evidence of ether .
 


 Animals such as Christians Buddhists Muslims healed/helped by real human animal surgeon, (using technology and science)-
are thankful to their gods, while their children's at school must pass mandatory exam from Darwin, Einstein,
Copernicus, earth history of science, anthropology, archaeology
Those children are thought that human and other mammals procreation is often in the same exactly doggy style.. and they eventually  find out that they are animals too.
Some of them as grown-ups confused by spirituality  repeat the same to their children too.

And some others wants to reincarnate  ether.
Wesley