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Author Topic: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive  (Read 5916 times)

Offline Tarsier_79

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2023, 09:43:17 AM »
I believe that is where we differ in opinion. At the moment, that hasn't been proven.

The magnet has to give back at least the energy you put into it by lifting the small weight to input the energy, as that is the amount lost per cycle (at least in the configuration you show on youtube). I personally don't hold much faith in your magnetic/ coil addition to your device.

As an electronics Tech, I have an understanding of coil generators, and they cost relative to the power drawn from them. However, I hope you have some success with your tests.

My replication will be a replication of the magnetic twist principle, not of your device exactly. I like to work with grass-roots/ base principles. I  will not bother you with it in this thread.


Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2023, 11:27:46 AM »
I believe that is where we differ in opinion. At the moment, that hasn't been proven.

No problem.

further quote
"The magnet has to give back at least the energy you put into it by lifting the small weight to input the energy, as that is the amount lost per cycle (at least in the configuration you show on youtube). I personally don't hold much faith in your magnetic/ coil addition to your device.

As an electronics Tech, I have an understanding of coil generators, and they cost relative to the power drawn from them. However, I hope you have some success with your tests.

My replication will be a replication of the magnetic twist principle, not of your device exactly. I like to work with grass-roots/ base principles. I  will not bother you with it in this thread."
end of that quote


Given the best of efficiencies for any type of electric generator, a cascading of twist drive devices would be needed before the generator came into play in order to acquire a useful amount of electricity.

However given that any device operates at unity, when all outputs are considered
(includes that which is normally considered as wasted energy) before addition
of the magnet and coil combination. i.e. the twist drives in the videos operate only
at unity.  Then, even the magnet and coil addition as illustrated (terribly inefficient as it is)
brings the operation  to over unity.

Good luck with your build.

Some things to consider (a list) for builders, compiled from my own experiences
and the insights / ideas shared here, by users Ramset and CITFTA (2 days ago).

What ever type of magnets you use, some of those considerations
might be useful.

@
https://overunity.com/19468/twist-drive-builds/msg577580/#msg577580

Additional information and insights were given by user LankaIV
@
https://overunity.com/18880/magnetic-force-and-electric-force-alignment/msg577433/#msg577433

                                    AND BY
by user smoky2
@
https://overunity.com/18497/floor-sweepings-dust-bin/msg577574/#msg577574

   Thanks again
 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 07:02:22 AM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2023, 12:22:37 AM »
Using off the shelf magnets

I can get a greater than  2 to 1 work out, to work in ratio during part of the
cycle. The NET energy gain is zero in a full cycle. This> 2 to 1 out put can be
cascaded by using multiples of the device.

I think the odds are pretty bad that I just happened upon the optimal
magnet shape. Some other geometry of the magnet shapes is bound to
give yet better results. Likely Some other  interaction can as well.

The shape of the interacting magnets.

I used off the shelf magnets.
Ceramic type. I am uncertain of the grade.
Rectangular wafer shaped.
1 7/8 by 7/8 by 3/8 inch thick.
Magnetic poles on the broad faces.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 07:04:53 AM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2023, 03:46:21 AM »
                                       Other characteristics of the twist drive.

The input and the output of the device occur simultaneously.

The twist drive has more momentum present within it, during its operating than
the energy input accounts for.

The rising and falling of a rack gear if used as the weight object on the rotational
side of the device, could transfer kinetic energy into a flywheel during the 'output'
and 'input' phases of the device's cycling (both).  This would of course, slow the cycling
of the twist drive itself.

    ADDED

Even though the twist dive is a physical device, there are aspects to
the interactions / its operation which are to some degree
                            ANALOGOUS
with aspects / characteristics present within electronics / other electromagnetic
interactions.

Some of which are

reluctance
reactance
magnetic field in relation to capacitive field.
impedance matching / mismatch
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 08:32:39 PM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2023, 02:28:21 PM »
                                                           OR
                          The output occurs after the input has been completed

Generally, I describe the twist drive output as occurring as, after the input
part of the cycle.  Also generally I designate the output as 'output' because,

without the use of one kind or another, of adaptation method, there is no
output available from the twist drives operation.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 07:29:42 PM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2023, 03:22:55 PM »
From Wikipedia

" arrangement in which a worm meshes with a worm wheel. The two elements
are also called the worm screw and worm gear. The terminology is often
confused by imprecise use of the term worm gear to refer to the worm, the worm
wheel, or the worm drive as a unit. "

If you have ever examined a "worm drive unit", in hand, you may have noticed
that it requires less force to turn the worm WHEEL shaft, if you simultaneously apply
a force to turn the worm SCREW shaft (in the correct direction).

The same applies also, when force is applied to the worm screw shaft while
simultaneously applying force to the worm wheel shaft.

This has to do with the directions of the application of forces (direction aspect of the force vector), leverage and friction
between the various components within the worm drive unit.

This remains true in either direction of rotation of the input shafts.

The total ENERGY required to turn the shafts can be less when force is applied to
both shafts simultaneously than if force is applied to one shaft only.

The twist drive unit, has characteristics which are in ways similar.


« Last Edit: May 13, 2023, 07:03:53 AM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2023, 04:48:50 PM »
One of the reasons why, many mechanical devices utilize continuously rotating
parts is to reduce the amount of energy which would other wise be expended
to cause repetitive accelerations against inertia.  i.e. This is what happens in
reciprocating motions.

Quasi over unity: more energy out than in, during a portion of a complete cycle,
but no net gain, as the result of the complete cycle.

Thus far I have not devised any method by which to produce a quasi over unity,
wherein, all moving components continuously rotate. No self runners either.
Those are not actually nor particularly the goals of my explorations.

The twist drive, (any physical device would) wastes energy by repetitive accelerations.
The faster the speeds reached are during its operation, the greater is the amount of energy
it wastes in repetitively causing accelerations.

A greater energy expenditure is required in order to accelerate any given mass to a
greater speed, than is required to accelerate that same mass to some lesser speed.

The amount of time it takes for any given mass to accelerate to a any particular
speed does not change the amount of energy required in order for that mass to
reach that speed.  All that matters is the amount of the mass and the final speed that it
reaches.

It is desirable to get more energy per unit of time (power) from any energy source.
The mass and resistance to acceleration of the magnets and other parts within a twist
drive impose limitations upon the speed of its operation.

Presently...

I am looking at / looking for / looking toward, understanding the twist drive's internal
events as if they were wave forms and how there might be analogies to  the Holcum Energy
System / other devices.

There are models of amplitude of and width of wave forms present here.

1. of five parts...
On one side of the interface between the two magnet's is the sliding magnet.
On the other side of the interface between the two magnets is the rotating magnet.

2. of five parts
Dual and opposing twist drives as a complex of wave forms.

3. of five parts
Cascaded twist drives as a complex of wave forms.

4. of five parts
Dual and opposing, cascaded twist drives as a complex of wave forms.

5. of five parts
Magnet falling through coil, or, flywheel acceleration.

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2023, 05:10:06 AM »
Replacing the role that gravity plays on the ROtating side of the twist drive, with
a second twist drive that opposes a first twist drive.

Each one's 'output' resets the other twist drive. Simultaneously they each, in turn
push the electricity generating magnet through a coil ( at a right angle to gravity).

Cascaded twist drives.  One drives two, two drive four, four drive eight and so on.
The cascade is reset by an opposing set of cascaded twist drives. At the juncture of
the two sets,  the electricity generating magnet is pushed through a coil ( at a right
angle to gravity).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2023, 02:05:37 PM by Willy »

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2023, 05:32:59 AM »
The last several posts here, by willy (yours truly), LankaIV, and CITFTA
have been moved to

https://overunity.com/18497/floor-sweepings-dust-bin/msg577939/#msg577939

To maintain continuity in this topic.

   willy

Offline Willy

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Re: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2023, 08:45:14 PM »
There are in some permanent magnet interaction out comes which are
much like unto the actions of a mechanical lever.

Examples...

A lesser force is applied over a longer distance of travel upon the long end of a
lever which is traded for a greater force being present over a shorter distance of travel
by the short end of the lever.

             OR
       in reverse

A greater force is applied over a shorter distance of travel upon the short end of a
lever which is traded for a lesser force being present over a longer distance of travel
by the long end of the lever.

Either way and before considerations of loses, these interaction balance to
a zero net gain in energy.


           BUT

There are numerous and various permanent magnet interactions for which
                                            THERE ARE NO
similar nor analogous actions which can be accomplished by means of a mechanical
lever.

The Twist Drive magnet interactions, as described in this topic result in
                   

1. A lesser force is applied over a lesser distance of travel upon a first side of the magnet
interactions, which is traded for a greater force being present over a greater distance
of travel upon a second side of the magnet interactions.

        and then
       in reverse

2.  A greater force is applied over a greater distance of travel upon the second side of the
magnet interactions, which is traded for a lesser force being present over a lesser distance
of travel upon the first side of the magnet interactions.

These two parts of a complete cycling of the device result in a NO net gain in energy and
NO net loss in energy (before considerations of losses by friction and so on).

                                          REPEAT, THERE ARE NO
                              similar nor analogous actions which can
                       be accomplished by means of a mechanical lever.

      Although this Twist Drive kind of interaction results in NO over unity in and of itself,
                                           the Twist Drive interactions do
                                     RESULT IN AN OVER UNITY OUTCOME
            when combined with a next process of permanent magnet interactions.