Author Topic: More clairifaction of floors Twist Drive (Read 8942 times)

hartiberlin · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2023, 09:52:57 PM »

Willy, I have set you now as the moderator for this board.
Regards, Stefan.

Willy · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2023, 11:25:01 PM »

Thank you Ramset and hartiberlin...

Only two claims remian to be resolved for the Twist drive device
and method.

1. Either the bottle weights and fall distances are as demonstrated in the many videos
or they are not.

2. Either the device can be cascaded or it can not.

Tarsier_79 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2023, 12:16:05 AM »

Hi W.

I ordered some magnets for a replication last night.

I don't think you need to cascade your device.

A lighter weight lifts a heavier weight does not immediately mean OU. We need usable energy output on top of the reset.

Willy · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2023, 12:21:10 AM »

Agree

ADDED

I hope you ordered ceramic magnets, ones that are practically identical
to those described in videos and other descriptions.

The use of neodymium magnets will cause a fail.
Those require special adaptations of the device.

I hope you (please) will not improvise changes or what might perhaps appear to
improvements to the magnets or their interactions.

Replication must be replication.

Added more
All that is needed is the magnet interactions to be replicated at this time

Even the very slightest amount of electrical output would be O.U.

Energy Conservation itself says this is so.

Willy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2023, 04:22:41 PM »

Partial quote

Quote from: Tarsier_79 on May 06, 2023, 04:18:56 AM

I think you are saying the reduction in weight on the RO direcly affects the distance the SL will move? That is OK, I get that and I understand the magnetic forces are stronger the closer the two magnets get and in what orientation the RO... I think it could still be possible to operate within the limits of that at the smaller distance and achieve a total gain in PE in a complete cycle.

I think you are starting to understand how difficult it is to describe these magnet
interactions.

Its not like one can just say ..,
for example...
(the leverage present there) because a lever trades force and distance.
While in these interactions,
from the SLiding unit side, less force and less distance are traded
for more force and greater distance on the ROtating unit side.

What does one call this ? It's not leverage. Over leverage ?
and
Its not OVER UNITY, due to the fact that during the full cycling, any energy gain
is balanced out /canceled. What is one to do ? Create new vocabulary I suppose ?
Like perhaps "quasi over unity".

The same applies from the RO side of the interactions.
Its not leverage and its not UNDER UNITY.

I find I must refer to input as 'input' and output as 'output'.

Here is where it gets really tripped out.

During the reset (ROtating magnet is pulled toward parallel to the SLiding magnet)

It wont reset ! Because the action from the RO side is under unity ! No, Not so. Its
what, quasi under unity, right / ok ?

OK...

So, one intervenes. One has stored a little energy on the SL side as rubber band
stretch.

Now check this out.

While the RO magnet is at 90 deg. off from the SL magnet,
That rubber band's contraction is being applied, in what is a quasi over unity manner,
but now, as SL gap OPENING. It contributes a quasi over unity toward the RO's, quasi
under unity. Less distance and force traded for more distance and more force.
Initiating RO returning to its far from 90 deg. position.

Very cool though

EDIT for less potentially offensive material

Tarsier_79 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2023, 09:03:27 PM »

Quote

A lighter weight lifts a heavier weight does not immediately mean OU. We need usable energy output on top of the reset.

This is where I was mistaken before. For the machine to be unity, the input = output, in your case we lift 105g x 22 units to operate through the cycle. So above on the output we need to lift and leave that equivalent. Any more is OU, any less is less than unity.

Quote

I hope you ordered ceramic magnets, ones that are practically identical
to those described in videos and other descriptions.

The use of neodymium magnets will cause a fail.
Those require special adaptations of the device.

I hope you (please) will not improvise changes or what might perhaps appear to
improvements to the magnets or their interactions.

Why aren't Neo magnets suitable? I ordered Neo 35s. If they won't work I can always order ceramics. My build will not be as substantial as yours. My goal is to first achieve an equivalent (or close to) action and results as seen in your video.

If I can get to that point, my next goal is to increase efficiency by using eccentric pulleys and then attempt to either lift and leave PE on the output side or investigate resetting the system with a smaller weight.

Willy · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2023, 09:29:56 PM »

Quote from: Tarsier_79 on May 07, 2023, 09:03:27 PM

This is where I was mistaken before. For the machine to be unity, the input = output, in your case we lift 105g x 22 units to operate through the cycle. So above on the output we need to lift and leave that equivalent. Any more is OU, any less is less than unity.

Your statement above is too ambiguous I cannot respond, except that, for the
moment I believe that it is incorrect.

Quote from: Tarsier_79 on May 07, 2023, 09:03:27 PM

Why aren't Neo magnets suitable? I ordered Neo 35s.

There are multiple reasons. The one that matters most here, is that a REPLICATION is
what is needed. Not another design nor a modification nor an innovation.

If you don't want to do a replication that is ok by me.

In which case, you should start a new topic for that "new design" on the main board
or something.

Willy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 07, 2023, 10:19:35 PM »

The twist drive interactions and results, although they might seem so, are
not particularly exceptional. They are not over unity in and of their selves.

Using a strong magnet falling through the closed circuit wire coil as the 'output' / reset
yields more energy. Other wise as stated, the twist drive (full cycling) gives
unity only.

A strong magnet falling through the closed circuit wire coil can, at best, yield only that
which was required to initially lift it.

That's the deal.

But a strong magnet falling through a closed circuit coil does not lose is own weight, curious as that is.

It can therefore reset the twist drive even though its fall is producing electric energy
in that coil.

The twist drive, can in return, lift that falling through a later closed circuit coil, magnet, to a height
which is greater ( for the amount of energy expended via the twist drive input), than if
that falling magnet were just simply, lifted.

But only so, because the complete cycling of the twist dive includes this seemingly
(but not actually) over unity within that cycle.

EDITS

Willy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 08, 2023, 01:44:54 AM »

Files attached below again.

Tarsier_79 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 09, 2023, 04:39:47 AM »

Quote

The fact is, very many who have viewed this topic, but also, are knowledgeable in this field,
understand that the twist drive / falling magnet combination, is more energy out than in.

When you lift the 105g x 22units, you physically input that relative energy into the system. What is the output?:+ 115x40 (up) - 115x40(down) = 0 *

Perhaps I asked the wrong question or don't understand properly.... You need the 115g weight on the output to reset the input with the 105g removed?

It seems to me (if that is the case) that your video shows more energy in than out.

Willy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 09, 2023, 05:08:01 AM »

Rephrasing a question so that it is very clear to the questioner, ones self,
will quite often results in seeing the answer for ones self.

Willy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 09, 2023, 02:24:48 PM »

Understanding these interactions is really a difficult thing, in my opinion.
Probably it has to be done in steps, also my opinion.

A starting point is here.
Knowing which of these is true, clearly, fully without a doubt.

1. Either a strong magnet falling through a copper pipe WEIGHS as much
while doing so, as it WEIGHS when stationary upon a weight scales, or it does not.

Do you know which is true ?
I recommend / think it best, to perform the test for one's self.

Other wise click on this video link posted by user "Novus".

https://overunity.com/19272/more-clairifaction-of-floors-twist-drive/msg577399/#msg577399

Willy · « **Reply #27 on:** May 09, 2023, 03:25:41 PM »

Smoky2

Ok
more clarification needs to be given from my side.

The point of, the magnet in water / magnet in coil illustration.
Magnet in Tube.jpg

The extraction of energy from the falling of the magnet by mechanical means
such as its raising of the water level in the illustration, would directly decrease
any work, the weight of that magnet could have performed in resetting the twist drive.

That weight as indicated upon the weight scale while the weight object is submerged
would be more appropriately / correctly referred to as the apparent weight.
... ... ... ...
True or untrue ?

Given that the 22 grams in the illustration is the weight required upon the ROtating
side of a twist drive for its operation.

Fact, when submerged in water. the force exerted upon the weight scales and which is called weight in the discussion, is less than needed to reset that twist drive.

Fact, when instead the 22 gram magnet is falling through a copper tube (shorted
copper wire coil), the force exerted upon the weight scales and which is called weight in
the discussion, is sufficient to reset that twist drive.

Willy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 09, 2023, 06:45:44 PM »

Tarsier_79

Quote from: Willy on May 09, 2023, 02:24:48 PM

Understanding these interactions is really a difficult thing, in my opinion.
Probably it has to be done in steps, also my opinion.

A starting point is here.
Knowing which of these is true, clearly, fully without a doubt.

1. Either a strong magnet falling through a copper pipe WEIGHS as much
while doing so, as it WEIGHS when stationary upon a weight scales, or it does not.

Do you know which is true ?
I recommend / think it best, to perform the test for one's self.

Other wise click on this video link posted by user "Novus".

https://overunity.com/19272/more-clairifaction-of-floors-twist-drive/msg577399/#msg577399

Willy · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2023, 04:13:29 AM »

The fact is, very many who have viewed this topic, but also, are knowledgeable in this field,
understand that the twist drive / falling magnet combination, is more energy out than in.

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