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### Author Topic: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion  (Read 2832 times)

#### floodrod

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 440
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2022, 07:27:21 PM »
Do you know other ways to increase the charge density without spending energy for this?

Not Yet.  But I did draw some interesting conclusions from all this that may end up being very useful for future endeavors.  Viewing electricity as "pressure" and the amplitude being the difference between 2 pressure units (instead of Volts and Amps) proves to be true.

Here is another thing very interesting in all this...   They say "Electricity wants to get to ground".  This is NOT true...  I drove an 8' ground rod in with a 10 gauge wire straight to my bench..  Under no circumstances can I get any electricity out of a positive side of a battery, capacitor, or even my power supply by connecting the Earth Ground..  Positive pressure has absolutely no desire to "get to ground"...  The only thing it want's to do is to get into the negative side of the battery...  (or coil, or negative side of the capacitor)....   It just want's to balance, and the only way current will flow is if the power source can balance by going through it..

What goes out  MUST come in...

#### kolbacict

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1037
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2022, 08:15:07 PM »
Under no circumstances can I get any electricity out of a positive side of a battery, capacitor, or even my power supply by connecting the Earth Ground..
Only if you ground the negative plate too.
It is possible connect to another grounding rod at some distance.

#### floodrod

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 440
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2022, 08:23:51 PM »
Only if you ground the negative plate too.
It is possible connect to another grounding rod at some distance.

Yes, if we bond the negative terminal to the ground it will flow because all amperage gets back to the negative side still.
And between ground rods "could" work as long as 1 rod is bonded to the negative terminal and parasitic capacitance of the ground allows the current back.  But in both scenarios, the electric found it's way back to the negative side of the battery.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3726
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2022, 09:00:33 PM »
When you run a motor as a ‘load’ (with no load on the motor),
Almost all of the energy passing through the motor’s coil is recoverable
after it gets up to speed.

The amount of energy that comes out (to charge a capacitor or battery),
will decrease as the motor encounters resistance. (conversion to heat and work)

This has fooled many experimenters with battery to battery set-ups.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3726
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2022, 09:14:23 PM »
Just a mathematical conundrum in how we measure energy in a capacitor.
The time variance of the discharge curve is not taken into account.
We relate everything to 1 second of time (or some fraction of this)

First thing to note is the original capacitor was only allowed to discharge for half of its’ time.
The other half is in that both capacitors are only charged half way, which allows them to discharge
more quickly (higher current).

We calculate each at 25%,
But the energy didn’t actually go anywhere.
The 2 in conjunction return 2x the expected value in half the time.

This can even be performed under infrared analysis and it is observed that heat is not a major factor.

#### floodrod

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 440
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2022, 10:24:15 PM »
When you run a motor as a ‘load’ (with no load on the motor),
Almost all of the energy passing through the motor’s coil is recoverable
after it gets up to speed.

The amount of energy that comes out (to charge a capacitor or battery),
will decrease as the motor encounters resistance. (conversion to heat and work)

Incorrect..

Regardless if the motor is spinning or not, the motor will only run on the difference in potential between the send battery and the catch device. (in this case the capacitor).  And the catch device will only collect it's nominal voltage at that exact time.

Example...

12V @ 1 amp coming out of the source through a motor to a 6 volt battery catch...  12 Watts comes out of the source..  Catch battery catches 6 watts (6V X 1A)  and Motor runs on 6 watts (potential difference X amps).

Not 1 fraction of a watt is "recoverable" at any time in this setup..  Motor at 10,000 RPM or standing still.  Amperage will change, but every drop of energy that was caught by the catch battery came from the source.  In addition to every drop of wattage that the motor consumed.

Experimenters are "fooled" because the amperage that gets sent from the source calculates to make it seem the source is only outputting the differential voltage.  And it's very hard to confirm what exactly is coming from the source.  But the way I accomplished it leaves little doubt

#### kolbacict

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1037
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2022, 07:56:14 PM »
When you run a motor as a ‘load’ (with no load on the motor),
Almost all of the energy passing through the motor’s coil is recoverable
after it gets up to speed.
If our motor would have a flywheel on its shaft,
capacitors could been recharge with reverse polarity.
right?
Calculate the total energy after that, maybe there will be an extra one?

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3726
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2022, 02:13:25 AM »
No. There will be a heavier pull spinning the flywheel up,
some of which is recoverable by slowing it down,
But overall the motor will drawn slightly more current,
you will not ‘gain’ from this, but if you connect a load the flywheel
can help with stability, and consistency of the electrical load.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3726
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2022, 02:17:11 AM »
@floodrod

What i meant by this is what is ‘passing through’, as at optimal speed with no load,
the motor isn’t itself drawing very much power.
However, the coil CAN still conduct electricity, beyond the magnetic saturation of the coil.

#### floodrod

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 440
##### Re: Capacitor Paradox And Recycling - My Conclusion
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2022, 03:19:33 AM »
@floodrod

What i meant by this is what is ‘passing through’, as at optimal speed with no load,
the motor isn’t itself drawing very much power.
However, the coil CAN still conduct electricity, beyond the magnetic saturation of the coil.

Lets say we have an unloaded motor at absolute full speed and we have a 6 V "Catch Battery" after the coil to "recapture"..

Motor is FULL speed at 12V @ 0.01 Amps..   Now we unhook the 6 Volt catch battery and hook the motor driver up standard fashion..  Now when it is Full Speed again, the power supply will read 6V @ 0.01 amps.   And the motor will be going the exact same speed.

In the first way-  we caught 6V @ 0.01 amps...  But we only caught that because we fed that exact same amount more into the motor.

Many get confused at this because when we are "catching", they think the power supply is only putting out the 6V differential, even though the supply reads 12V.  It,s easy to make this assumption because the amperage flows exactly as it would with 6V.  They don't get the whole "pressure" part.  As Onepower stated (and I stated in my first 2 posts),  take 1 balloon fully blown up and transfer half the air into an empty balloon.  You still have all the air,  but you lost a bunch of pressure power.   Putting a motor or a a load between will allow you to re-capture some of that lost pressure, but that is all.  You will not end up with more power after..

Is there another way??  I don't know..  You can convert the lost pressure to flux in between, but you will still need an overunity device that can convert that flux to more power than was sent to it.  At the moment, I see no advantage in catching....

BUT.....  I do think performance of a generator can be improved by using a capacitor in such a way to always keep the volts the generator is producing HIGH and the amps low..  And continually dumping the top part of the cap into a battery without depleting the cap.  But the battery and the generator will always need to be isolated.