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Author Topic: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others  (Read 14500 times)

Offline citfta

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #120 on: September 20, 2022, 09:05:07 PM »

The following is the code for an Arduino Uno board to flash 3 LEDs in order and repeat over and over.  I have modified the program to read a potentiometer and adjust the speed of flashing of the LEDs.  I believe we can use this to generate a nice clean 3 phase signal.  When I get time I will post a video of it in action.  But the signals look nice on the scope.  They are nice and square with one pulse following the next cleanly.  The output is a square wave.  My next part of the project is to connect the output to some opto-couplers to drive either mosfets or IGBTs.  Then we will be ready for some more testing of the rotating magnetic field.  I chose the Arduino Uno because it is easily available for others and also there are literally thousands of programs and projects that use Arduino boards so it is likely some of you are already familiar with using it.




Quote
/*
  For Loop Iteration


 Demonstrates the use of a for() loop.
 Lights multiple LEDs in sequence.


 The circuit:
 * LEDs from pins 2 through 4 to ground


 


 http://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ForLoop
 */
int sensorPin = A0;    // select the input pin for the potentiometer


int sensorValue = 0;  // variable to store the value coming from the sensor




void setup() {
  // use a for loop to initialize each pin as an output:
  for (int thisPin = 2; thisPin < 5; thisPin++) {
    pinMode(thisPin, OUTPUT);
  }
}


void loop() {
  //read the value from the sensor:
  sensorValue = analogRead(sensorPin);
  // loop from the lowest pin to the highest:
  for (int thisPin = 2; thisPin < 5; thisPin++) {
    // turn the pin on:
    digitalWrite(thisPin, HIGH);
    delay(sensorValue);
    // turn the pin off:
    digitalWrite(thisPin, LOW);
  }
}




Decided to add a picture of the signals.  I only have a two channel scope working at this time so one of the signals is missing.


Later,
Carroll

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #121 on: September 23, 2022, 02:03:53 PM »
Hello to All,

Basically @ Citfta, as to any other one who is working on this project...I wanted to make this short comment.
According to my tests with the Alternator driven by the FET's ESC:

I have noticed that this pulses to the outer stator, only output this clear -spaced out/off phase- signals, as long as there is the Rotor Field turned on, present.
Otherwise, (if we turn it off, or even lower its power too much) the signals on the 3 Phases distorts to a very high frequency...while, of course, rotor will stop turning.

In other words, it is NOT the same configuration as when I use my Rotary Switch, where the signals are present, no matter if or not, there is another field on the other side...

So, I wonder if this would work (output the spaced out signals back again), when we load the output coils on a static rotor, since it would be forming that secondary field, but static...

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline citfta

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #122 on: September 23, 2022, 09:07:55 PM »
I would certainly try to load the rotor while applying the pulses to the stator and see what happens.  I do know from my testing that the position of the rotor will affect how well the energy is induced into the rotor.  So you might want to try slowly adjusting the position of the stationary rotor while applying the pulses.


I have not had time yet to build the FET ESC.  I got sidetracked with the idea of making a digital circuit for creating square wave pulses.  So I put together the simple circuit I posted about above.  I am still trying to catch up on things here at home after getting back from my trip.  I want to connect my digital circuit to some opto-couplers and some FETs or IGBTs and drive the stator coils with those square wave pulses to see what that does to the rotor.


On another thought.  Do you remember what frequency you were getting with your mechanical switching system?  I realize that up to a point the higher the frequency the more power will be induced into the fixed rotor coils.  The higher frequency should be just like moving the magnets faster in the regular generator.  I tested my original alternator output when turning it at high speed with the scooter motor and the output frequency was about 225 hz.  That was also turning it faster than when I had it hooked to the second alternator.  I am guessing that when I had them hooked together I was only driving the second one with a frequency of maybe 175 hz.  Just another area to research.


Take care,
Carroll

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #123 on: September 24, 2022, 12:58:16 AM »
I’ve moved away from the alternator but I have a 3 phase washing machine bldc motor. I have removed the pms from the rotor and will be replacing with coils. The stator is 3 phase but only looks like a couple of ohms so I may rewind it. As my rotor has 8 poles I should be able to try something closer to how I think Holcomb is doing it. I’ve built the esc circuit with irf1405 and irfpc50 . It’s good to test with but once I have my rotor wound I’ll be looking for a circuit that is simply flipping the polarity of each coil to create the rotation rather than pulsing them.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #124 on: September 24, 2022, 07:46:13 PM »
This works even if a three-phase transformer is connected instead of a three-phase motor stator.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #125 on: September 25, 2022, 04:55:29 PM »
It’s good to test with but once I have my rotor wound I’ll be looking for a circuit that is simply flipping the polarity of each coil to create the rotation rather than pulsing them.

Here you go.  This seems to work well on the bench.  A new bench by the way, built just for this project.

I'll keep working towards a final PCB if there is any interest.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 09:20:28 PM by Dog-One »

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #126 on: September 26, 2022, 09:12:18 AM »
Hey Maaaaaate! Good to hear from you. Thanks for that. I got distracted playing with my Signal generator on one of the stator coils of my generator on the weekend. That was interesting. Didn't think I'd be able to dimly light 130 LED strip off it at the right frequency. I'll now get back to winding my rotor :)

Offline citfta

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #127 on: September 29, 2022, 07:03:45 PM »
Hi Dog-One,


Thanks for your input.  The circuit looks very nice as well as the video.  I see you are planning to pulse 4 coils.  I am wondering what configuration you had in mind for the arrangement of the coils?


In regards to the idea of pulsing the coils with opposite polarity I am wondering why you or Jimboot think that is necessary.  When you pulse a coil with DC one side of the coil is going to be North and the other side is going to be South.  That is why in a motor half of the coil is on one side of the rotor and the other half is on the opposite side of the rotor.  This allows both polarities to act on the rotor.  However depending on the arrangement of the coils applying alternating polarities may be beneficial.  Like a lot of what we do trying different ideas is always worth checking in to.  I will be looking forward to seeing what results you get.


Thanks again for your input,
Carroll

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #128 on: September 29, 2022, 10:36:11 PM »
Hi Dog-One,


Thanks for your input.  The circuit looks very nice as well as the video.  I see you are planning to pulse 4 coils.  I am wondering what configuration you had in mind for the arrangement of the coils?

My focus is towards patent US11336134B2, Figure 23.  What I see there is an inner and outer exciter coil placed on 16 poles where the collector coils (stator) fits in between.  This arrangement looks to have four magnetic quadrants, with the exciter dividing it up into 22.5 degrees per quadrant.  According to Dr. Holcomb, one can expect a COP somewhere between 3 and 5.  Not sure I actually buy into that statement.  I would think one could easily find themselves with a device that is COP < 1, or 2 or 2.5 with maybe a theoretical maximum of 5.  His statement is a little disconcerting to me.  TinselKooala mentioned 1.2 as the goal.  That would be a COP where we have the ability to loop the device; anything greater is gravy and we scale up or out as necessary.

I actually would prefer to have more stator poles.  One reason for this is to shorten the flux path on the outside perimeter.  The other reason is to tighten up the resolution.  What I mean by that is to compress the angles for each tick of the excitor circuits.  So instead of 22.5 degrees per tick, I'm thinking 15 degrees or less would be better, provided I can pack enough windings next to each other on the inner exciter coils.

If we were to use a typical alternator core, I think it has 36 segments.  Then we divide this up by the four exciter circuits.  That gives us nine output phases, which is fine.  I plan on rectifying each of these anyway and dumping them on a DC output bus.  With 36 segments, we have 10 degrees resolution, which is real good, but winding those inner exciter coils is going to be very tight.

Something practical I can actually build would have 24 segments, giving us 15 degrees resolution and six output phases.  I think that will be a sweet spot and I might actually be able to find a core that is close and if not, I'll have to find someone with a waterjet cutter and hope I can find some electrical steel for them to cut.

In regards to the idea of pulsing the coils with opposite polarity I am wondering why you or Jimboot think that is necessary.  When you pulse a coil with DC one side of the coil is going to be North and the other side is going to be South.  That is why in a motor half of the coil is on one side of the rotor and the other half is on the opposite side of the rotor.  This allows both polarities to act on the rotor.  However depending on the arrangement of the coils applying alternating polarities may be beneficial.  Like a lot of what we do trying different ideas is always worth checking in to.  I will be looking forward to seeing what results you get.

Attention to detail.  UFOpolitics did this to me, so blame him if I sound anal retentive.  hehe

Picture the magnetic circuit(s) for a particular set of exciter coils.  Think of the steel in those circuits as being permanent magnets.

Now imagine a shift, one tick of the exciter coils clockwise or counter-clockwise.  Did you notice where a north/south flux became a south/north flux and when that flux change swept across a stator coil?  Did you notice which side of the stator coil it swept?  One side a N/S to S/N sweep produces a positive voltage on the stator coil and the other side produces a negative voltage.  So what we want are two sweeps:  the N/S to S/N on the leading edge produces a positive voltage and the S/N to N/S on the trailing edge also produces a positive voltage.  We want both of those EMFs in-phase and to happen simultaneously.  We have to match our exciter coils and segments to our collector (stator) coils.  I'm pretty sure that's the main concept behind this HES device.  The flux paths just "happen" to cross or cut the collector wires at the right place and at the right time.  These wires get induced an EMF because they experience a localized magnetic flux change.  We know the rest right?  The EMF they produce is shunted by a load that causes them to produce their own magnet field that opposes the change in flux that created the EMF in the first place.  The trick here the way I see it is, in the HES device, this opposing magnet flux (Lenz) assists the shifting of the exciter coils.  It actually starts magnetizing a pole that we were about to magnetize in the same polarity anyway as well as demagnetizing another pole that we were going to have to apply a current to to get a pole flip.  There has to be a slight offset between what we call the rotor and the stator.  This offset has to be tuned to the speed at which we shift excitor coils and the remanence of the steel.  I see this from a mechanical perspective as degrees which is why I think we want tight resolution of the excitor coils.  If we build a prototype where this resolution is too sloppy, we won't be able to tune it and a COP of 1.2 or higher is out of the question.

Thanks again for your input,
Carroll

Not a problem Carroll.  I really doubted I would be able to contribute anything let alone actually attempt to build one of these devices.

Something I should mention:  I think the digital aspect of this device is important.  You recall all those magnetic motor videos where the inventor went to great pains to overcome the dreaded "sticky spot"?  We have digital switching with this concept.  We can hop right over the sticky spot and we can do it in such a way where we create the maximum pulling force while minimizing the drag force.  I think this equates directly into COP > 1 potential.  That ability coupled with the resolution may be where Dr. Holcomb comes up with his numbers of 3 to 5 times energy gain.  So you might ask, how can this work with a 3-phase excitor?  I'm not certain you can do it with true analog 3-phase, but I bet you could do it with synthesized "digital" 3-phase.  So the experiment you started with in this thread may never show us what we're looking for, but it did provide a lot of food-for-thought on what we can do.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #129 on: September 29, 2022, 11:38:30 PM »
Thanks for being anal Matt and thanks for the contribution. Carroll my reasoning for alternating coil polarities isn’t anywhere near as Sophisticated. It’s just that is what his original vid showed the rotor doing.


I’m currently distracted with a signal generator, amp and my 1kva stator/rotor. Pulsing the 1ohm coil on the stator I can brightly light a 25watt incandescent off the 8ohm stator coil  and 1wire lighting of a cfl off the rotor coils in series(one hAnd territory) which gives a heck of a belt but low current.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2022, 04:17:26 AM »
Something practical I can actually build would have 24 segments, giving us 15 degrees resolution and six output phases.  I think that will be a sweet spot and I might actually be able to find a core that is close and if not, I'll have to find someone with a waterjet cutter and hope I can find some electrical steel for them to cut.

A quick sketch of what I'm thinking.  Outside diameter is ten inches for the moment.  As Professor Eric Laithwaite mentioned, electro-magnetic machines gain efficiency with larger size, which is fine as long as I don't need a crane to work on the thing.

Also discovered something called Cold Rolled Motor Lamination (CRML) – ASTM A726 that should be suitable for a prototype.
https://www.laminationspecialties.com/electrical-steel/

Not certain heat treatment would really be necessary for a prototype.  If it works and I have the desire to squeeze another 10% out of it, I can always get the second set of laminates annealed.   ;)

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #131 on: September 30, 2022, 03:12:55 PM »
Carroll my reasoning for alternating coil polarities isn’t anywhere near as Sophisticated. It’s just that is what his original vid showed the rotor doing.

Hello there Jim!!

I now can see what you meant by 'alternating polarities'...when you show that image...however, you must realize -on his setup- that HES is actually reversing Four coils at a time per angle shifting...so, I made this image for you, to see what I mean.
1-So, on upper left circled coil, which is blue now, it shifts to South (Red)
2-The upper circle Right coil, which is Red (South) now, becomes North (Blue)
3-The lower Blue (N) Right Coil in the circle becomes South (Red)
4-The lower Left Coil (now Red/South) becomes Blue/North.

And so, that operation (which takes place at unisom) displaces an angular rotation of the Four Poles, following the two arrows direction.

Point about this type of switching, is that ALWAYS, there are at least Three(3) Coils next to each others, which are constantly maintaining the same main polarity during angular transitions...this way the main fields never collapse.

Now, on the other hand, if you just reverse polarities to full Groups of coils...it would not displace the fields...it would just "flash them" in alternated polarities without a rotary pattern.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2022, 03:27:55 PM »

In regards to the idea of pulsing the coils with opposite polarity I am wondering why you or Jimboot think that is necessary.  When you pulse a coil with DC one side of the coil is going to be North and the other side is going to be South.  That is why in a motor half of the coil is on one side of the rotor and the other half is on the opposite side of the rotor.  This allows both polarities to act on the rotor.  However depending on the arrangement of the coils applying alternating polarities may be beneficial.  Like a lot of what we do trying different ideas is always worth checking in to.  I will be looking forward to seeing what results you get.

Thanks again for your input,
Carroll

Hello Citfta,

Sorry I have not replied, being busy...about doing that test you have suggested, on loading rotor coil while pulsing stators coils...I want to do that test...but, did not get a chance...

Related to your above statement, remember that the way an alternator stator is wound, by having Three Layers of alternated coils in reversed configurations, which outputs NSNSNSNSNS...then on second and third layers are wound the same way, except they are off phase/angle, by jumping one or two teeth.

What I found very interesting, is that this type of arrangement, not only serves very well as Output Coils, like it does in all alternators, with very high amperage...but now with our recent tests shown, we can see that this winding arrangement also works as a rotating field(s) which can turn the rotor field...

Therefore, I am very confident that we could use the same winding pattern for both components in a Generator...the Output Stator and the Exciter.

Whenever I find the time I will be uploading a video about my test(s)

Regards

Ufopolitics


Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2022, 03:38:04 AM »
Hello there Jim!!

I now can see what you meant by 'alternating polarities'...when you show that image...however, you must realize -on his setup- that HES is actually reversing Four coils at a time per angle shifting...so, I made this image for you, to see what I mean.
1-So, on upper left circled coil, which is blue now, it shifts to South (Red)
2-The upper circle Right coil, which is Red (South) now, becomes North (Blue)
3-The lower Blue (N) Right Coil in the circle becomes South (Red)
4-The lower Left Coil (now Red/South) becomes Blue/North.

And so, that operation (which takes place at unisom) displaces an angular rotation of the Four Poles, following the two arrows direction.

Point about this type of switching, is that ALWAYS, there are at least Three(3) Coils next to each others, which are constantly maintaining the same main polarity during angular transitions...this way the main fields never collapse.

Now, on the other hand, if you just reverse polarities to full Groups of coils...it would not displace the fields...it would just "flash them" in alternated polarities without a rotary pattern.

Regards

Ufopolitics
I appreciate your explanation. Thanks for that.