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Author Topic: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others  (Read 14254 times)

Offline citfta

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2022, 05:06:07 PM »
Hi Jimboot.
I haven't seen anything new from your testing lately.  If the low resistance of your coils is causing you problems I have a suggestion for you,  You could connect the parallel wires of each coil in series similar to Tesla's pancake bifilar coil.  Of course yours won't be a pancake but it will have twice the resistance it has with the single wires and 4 times the resistance it had with the wires in parallel.  This will also increase the capacitance of the coils which may or may not help the virtual moving field.  Not too sure about that part.
The WiFi just came back on where I am so wanted to pass that idea along while I had a chance.
Later,
Carroll




Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2022, 10:51:04 PM »
Hi Jimboot.
I haven't seen anything new from your testing lately.  If the low resistance of your coils is causing you problems I have a suggestion for you,  You could connect the parallel wires of each coil in series similar to Tesla's pancake bifilar coil.  Of course yours won't be a pancake but it will have twice the resistance it has with the single wires and 4 times the resistance it had with the wires in parallel.  This will also increase the capacitance of the coils which may or may not help the virtual moving field.  Not too sure about that part.
The WiFi just came back on where I am so wanted to pass that idea along while I had a chance.
Later,
Carroll
hi Carroll even in series they are only 1ohm . I’ve built a couple of the circuits using different rated fets and I’ve been testing on my 1kW gen stator. Not ideal but I’m learning a few things. May go and rescue another alternator.

Offline bistander

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2022, 11:08:13 PM »
.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2022, 11:32:21 PM »
1kv? Did you mean 1kW?
bi
lol thanks just woke up. Maybe I should have coffee before typing. Fixed

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #94 on: September 07, 2022, 02:28:58 PM »
Good morning All,

I finally finished the circuit and tested it with an old alternator I had to fix the brush set, it belonged to a 4.9 L V8 Caddy, so, it is huge, like 120 Amps, and have a massive steel rotor.
The alternator that they run on the videos are from smaller vehicles, lower amperage,  which have smaller rotors and higher resistance on its stator coils...

First, I wanted to make it run as a motor, before I got involved into the generator function, in order to observe all behavior...

So, I used one PSU to feed Rotor Coil, and another PSU for running the 3 Phase.

It ran wonderful, even though this circuit needs a lot of work for a better performance. First, the Source for all FETs are receiving straight power (not regulated)...so, the minute you start PSU it starts triggering, even the VR being at lowest point to the Gates. (maybe a higher resistor than 4.7K?)
Second, the FETs run extremely hot whenever consuming close to 10 amps, so, Heatsink should be pretty large...and still keep watching the temperature down or will blow them off. (And no, I did not blow any so far... :) )

Related to interesting behavior I have observed two things:

1- The Amperage on Stator is completely "inverse" to the Total Power to Rotor Coil.

a) Meaning, when I get motor running at high speed, say Stator PSU at 8.0V and 8A, while PSU to Rotor Coil is at 2.0V and 0.5-0.45A...If I lower the Rotor Coil PSU to 1.0V the Stator PSU will jump to 10A...
Shouldn't it be the opposite under normal conditions?...I mean, I lower Rotor Field down, less drag, less field strength...don't the Stator amps should also come down?...and of course, speed increases when I do that, since automatically 3 phase power goes up.

b) And so the opposite as well...If I rise Voltage on Rotor Field the Stator PSU amperage drops down...(I do this to cool FETs when running for  a while)

2- Once I have the motor running, compensated at a lower amps at stator (like 6-7A)...I could close all power to rotor coil PSU...mean, turn V-Knob all the way to zero...and motor still keeps running strong...as PSU does not goes to a complete zero, but, like 0.8V and milliamps.

I will try to upload a video later on...where I show these specific behavior.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #95 on: September 07, 2022, 03:17:46 PM »
Ok, here is a short video about my test...

FIRST TEST ALTERNATOR AS 3 PHASE BLDC MOTOR

If you noticed the Motor can run at very low input to Rotor Coil, very strong and at very high speed, however, it will not restart after a slow down to stop...unless we rise again the Rotor Field power.

Also, I tried to show you what I meant, in previous post, about the inverse relation between Stator Power versus Rotor Power.

And yes, I will make another video where I will show the 3 Channel Scope Signals from each phase...but will take a while, am busy now until late this evening.
Have to set up all rigs to hook probes, make a more decent setup to hook Input power with bolts and not gator clips cables...plus add another aluminum plate to heatsink...I want to film and test relaxed that FETs will not overheat then blow.

Thanks

Ufopolitics

Offline matu

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2022, 05:02:30 PM »
Hello Ufopolitics, I think the behavior is correct, keep in mind that it is the stator through the regulator that supplies the current to the rotor, this, once it is turning, must be disconnected from the source, which will already demand the one it needs to the stator.
Sometimes the external power supply to the rotor will not be necessary, since the remanent magnetism will be enough to start it.
I don't think that since these alternators are configured from the factory they can supply large currents through the rotor, since if the stator is "excessive current", the regulator will lower the rotor current to a minimum.

That is why another day I advised to use a double thread in the stator, where one would be used as a normal output and the other to generate the rotating field, I have not tried it because now I do not have an alternator.
Cheers

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2022, 05:41:19 PM »
Hello Ufopolitics, I think the behavior is correct, keep in mind that it is the stator through the regulator that supplies the current to the rotor, this, once it is turning, must be disconnected from the source, which will already demand the one it needs to the stator.

Hello Matu,

Please, let me remind you, that I know perfectly well (in case, in the event, you did not know), how an Alternator works in a "typical automotive application"
On this tests we are doing exactly the opposite, as the "typical alternator function"...
On typical alternator function, the rotor coil receives FIRST, the power from the battery (through the regulator) and Currents are induced on Stator...which then goes to the diode bridge back to the battery to be recharged, plus all other voltage supply required by vehicle.

As a "normal rotary generator", once a load is added to the alternator (say we turn on air conditioning) immediately the rotor gets stiffer, tends to lock up, due to the higher strength of the Stator Field that has increased...HOWEVER, at this point the regulator never, ever, "disconnects power to rotor coil"...or it will collapse and vehicle will stall and stop!!!
On the contrary, Regulator MUST send more power to Rotor Coil...since "demand" increased from "ON LOAD" Stator...
So, please...rethink it again...
No, the Rotor Coil NEVER gets "disconnected from Output Stator, while vehicle is running!!...

From Battery?...YES!!...once the stator builds up certain power, regulator "bridges" output from stator to the rotor coil, and disconnects from battery, once vehicle already started up.

Sometimes the external power supply to the rotor will not be necessary, since the remanent magnetism will be enough to start it.

AGAIN, NEGATIVE!!...NOPE!!
The Power supplied to an Alternator Rotor Coil MUST BE ON, AT ALL TIMES!!, whether from Battery (start up) or from Output source from alternator stator, via diode bridge.
Forget about "magnetic reminiscence" here, it "does not apply"...it will never be enough to keep battery charged up while running vehicle at max loads.
Simple, disconnect battery and then try to start the car with your "magnetic reminiscence"...good luck!!

I don't think that since these alternators are configured from the factory they can supply large currents through the rotor, since if the stator is "excessive current", the regulator will lower the rotor current to a minimum.
again...negative...it never takes place to drive rotor coil to a "minimum"...

That is why another day I advised to use a double thread in the stator, where one would be used as a normal output and the other to generate the rotating field, I have not tried it because now I do not have an alternator.
Cheers
It won't work...you can not have both (supply and demand) on the "same page" guy!!
They will both cancel to a big "zero"...
You can NOT have Induced and Inductor on the same "space-time" right next to each others...won't do...
It is either "above and below" or "face to face"...and that is it...

Good luck and thanks for your comments.

Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2022, 05:57:37 PM »
Hello to All,

While I appreciate any comments, let me remind to you all (before engaging in ridiculous comments)...that my main experience is about Automotive, in mechanical plus electrical systems...

This tests we are doing here are just to study what we are trying to demonstrate...and that is to rotate the magnetic field to induce power...without any rotary parts...
However, must of Us know that Alternators Stator windings from vehicles (any OEM as is) are not good for this purpose. since they are wound to generate high amperage output at a rated 12-14.5 Volts...so, they have low number of turns with very high gauge wire...not good at all...just look at the rotor coil spec's as the "inductor" or exciter...that is exactly what we all need to reverse the function of having the Stator become the new "exciter"!!

Second, the Claws Rotor Configuration is also NOT Good...it will induce very, very low power, because of its geometrical positioning (of core plus coil)

Resuming, these are just some tests to see behaviors...check our 3 Phase Signals are alternated...plus generating the required rotational field...then we will move on, and away from this specific configuration...

Regards

Ufopolitics


Online kolbacict

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2022, 08:55:13 PM »
I have not tried it because now I do not have an alternator.
How so?  :o You have a country of unlimited possibilities!
For example, I have a lot of rubbish.
If you do not need me, and you consider me your enemy, at least take my junk.
But only with me in the load.  ;D

Offline matu

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2022, 09:28:37 PM »
Hola de nuevo,
Quizás he pecado de ingenuo al querer expresarme con las mínimas palabras, ya que mi idioma materno no es el ingles y utilizo el traductor de Google para escribir y creo haber dicho lo contrario de lo que quería decir, por lo tanto hablaré en español que creo haber oído en otras ocasiones que es también su idioma materno.
En mi creencia de que en esta prueba preliminar el alternador se encontraría tal cual viene de fábrica y solo habría conectado su controlador a los terminales del estator, quedando al mismo tiempo conectado a los diodos y por lo tanto al regulador, es por lo que dije de desconectar la fuente que suministra energía a la bobina del rotor, ya que tengo comprobado por mí que no es necesario tener conectada una batería para poder colocar una carga en la salida de continua directamente, una vez que está girando el rotor con la ayuda de otro motor, en ese caso la batería solo es necesaria para el arranque y se puede quitar totalmente, incluso una vez desconectado y sin batería el alternador continuará suministrando energía con solo hacer girar el rotor.
Si hace poco tiempo que se desconectó, con solo volver a girar el rotor con otro motor, el alternador seguirá suministrando energía sin estar conectada a ninguna batería.
Desde luego si se ha desconectado totalmente la salida del estator y se ha conectado otra entrada también independiente a la bobina del rotor, esto ya no será posible.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo en su interpretación de como funciona un alternador de coche y por supuesto no he dudado en ningún momento de vd. lo desconociera, no obstante vuelvo a pedir disculpas por no haberme expresado correctamente y no duden en borrar estos mensajes si creen que entorpecen este tema.
Saludos

Hello again,
Perhaps I have been naive in wanting to express myself with the fewest words, since my mother tongue is not English and I use the Google translator to write and I think I have said the opposite of what I wanted to say, therefore I will speak in Spanish, which I think having heard on other occasions that it is also their mother tongue.
In my belief that in this preliminary test the alternator would be as it comes from the factory and would only have connected its controller to the stator terminals, remaining at the same time connected to the diodes and therefore to the regulator, that is why I said to disconnect the source that supplies power to the rotor coil, since I have verified for myself that it is not necessary to have a battery connected to be able to place a load on the DC output directly, once the rotor is turning with the help of another engine, in that case the battery is only necessary for starting and can be completely removed, even once disconnected and without battery the alternator will continue to supply energy just by turning the rotor.
If it has been disconnected for a short time, just by turning the rotor again with another motor, the alternator will continue to supply power without being connected to any battery.
Of course, if the stator output has been completely disconnected and another independent input has been connected to the rotor coil, this will no longer be possible.
I totally agree with your interpretation of how a car alternator works and of course I have never doubted you. I was unaware of it, however I apologize again for not having expressed myself correctly and do not hesitate to delete these messages if you think they hinder this topic.
Cheers

Offline matu

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #101 on: September 07, 2022, 09:36:20 PM »
How so?  :o You have a country of unlimited possibilities!
For example, I have a lot of rubbish.
If you do not need me, and you consider me your enemy, at least take my junk.
But only with me in the load.  ;D

Muchas gracias amigo, soy español y estoy en España demasiado lejos para la chatarra y si tengo algunos alternadores pero totalmente desarmados y faltos de piezas, pero no se preocupe intentaré probar todo esto muy pronto.
Saludos y gracias de nuevo

Thank you very much friend, I am Spanish and I am in Spain too far for scrap and if I have some alternators but totally disassembled and missing parts, but do not worry I will try to test all this very soon.
Greetings and thanks again

Offline citfta

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2022, 09:54:17 PM »
Hi Ufo,
After a long day of sightseeing in the beautiful country of Germany I finally got time to look at this thread.  Your alternator being driven as a motor is working normally.  When you have a reasonable amount of current going through the rotor the spinning rotor is creating a back EMF into the stator. This in turn causes the stator current to go down.  When you reduce the current going to the rotor then the stator current goes up because of less back EMF being produced by the rotor's magnetic field.  When you have time please take a screen shot of the signals being produced by the FET circuit.


For the other comments.  While I appreciate other's input please go back and read what this thread is about. We are NOT trying to make a motor out of an alternator.  We are NOT trying to make a better alternator.  We ARE TRYING to find the most efficient way to make a virtual moving magnetic field. We are just using an alternator because it gives us a common easy to work with device that we can use to share our results.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #103 on: September 07, 2022, 11:14:39 PM »
Hi Ufo,
After a long day of sightseeing in the beautiful country of Germany I finally got time to look at this thread.  Your alternator being driven as a motor is working normally.  When you have a reasonable amount of current going through the rotor the spinning rotor is creating a back EMF into the stator. This in turn causes the stator current to go down.  When you reduce the current going to the rotor then the stator current goes up because of less back EMF being produced by the rotor's magnetic field.  When you have time please take a screen shot of the signals being produced by the FET circuit.

Respectfully,
Carroll


Great Citfta, I am glad you are enjoying it!!

Here are some images, plus a short video running with Scope on...
Plus video on...

SCOPE 3 PHASE SIGNALS VID

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #104 on: September 08, 2022, 12:23:20 PM »
Thanks for the vid ufo. May I ask where you have the probes?


Have a lovely trip Carroll sounds wonderful.