Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others  (Read 14050 times)

Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
i didn't want to pollute anyone else's threads with my rambling ideas so decided to start my own thread.


If I understand the Holcomb effect and the Figuera effect and the efforts of UFO they all seem to rely on the idea of moving a virtual magnetic field past some coils.  I spent a little time working on a simple version of the Figuera effect and did see some transference of energy but not anywhere close to being efficient.  But my test setup was pretty crude.  With all the attention of the Holcomb device and the work being done by UFO I decided to spend some more time thinking about how this could be done more easily.  The following idea may be totally worthless but I won't know that until I try it out.  And I do plan to try it out.  But I thought I would put the idea out here for review and comments while I get things together to build my idea.


It seems to me that we need a good way to generate a moving magnetic field.  Well all AC induction motors have a moving magnetic field.  That is what causes them to rotate.  I also know that 3 phase power is much more efficient than single phase power.  But how to get a variable speed 3 phase signal that can also have the power level adjusted for testing purposes?  Well it turns out we have a easily gotten 3 phase power generator.  The standard automotive alternator is 3 phase power that gets rectified into DC.  It we remove the rectifier assembly we then can get a 3 phase power signal out.  If we remove the voltage regulator that is now most of the time internal to the alternator we can then apply an adjustable DC supply to the brushes to adjust the output voltage of our now 3 phase generator.


If we then turn the alternator with a small DC motor like one of the scooter motors many of us have used in the past we now have a 3 phase source of power that can be adjusted both in frequency and power out.


I think it was UFO that made a post a few days ago that maybe we should be energizing the outer stator and take power off the inner stator (formerly rotor).  If we take a second auto alternator and remove the rectifier assembly and regulator from it we could then feed our 3 phase power from our new power source directly to the 3 phase windings of the second alternator.  And then maybe we could take power from the brushes of the second alternator.  Of course we would need to lock the rotor of the second alternator as I believe it would probably try to turn with the 3 phase rotating field from the stator.  We may need to slowly adjust the position of the rotor for the best pick up of the energy from the stator.  Or maybe not.  Only testing will show if any energy at all can be generated this way.  But I plan to find out.


If the theories about using a virtual moving magnetic field are correct then a changing load on the second alternator should not cause an increase in the power going to the motor driving the first alternator.  Nor should a change in power being drawn from the second alternator require any increase in power going to the brushes of the first alternator.  Only testing will show if that is correct.


I welcome any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions or ideas.


Thanks for reading.
Carroll

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 11:05:55 PM »
Hi citfta,
I think your plan works up until the last step. Using the Lundel (claw) 'rotor' with its single coil (concentric to shaft) will loose the effective moving magnetic field (RMF). It would simply be a pulsing alternating field.

Wouldn't hurt to try. I could be mistaken. And then again, when it doesn't work, forget about using the concentric coil. Turn down the claws to increase the air gap and insert coil(s), air core, in the gap glued to the claw. That is where that claimed atmospheric charge was collected, per recent article.
bi

edit:
Further thinking. With the air gap coil(s), keep original field coil (concentric to shaft) and energize it to apply a bias field on the air gap coil(s).

Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2022, 12:45:56 PM »
Hello Bi,


I think what you have written might be correct about the pulsing alternating field IF we allow the rotor to turn with the virtual rotating field.  But IF we lock the rotor so that the virtual magnetic field moves past the claws of the rotor then I think my idea might work.  Only testing will show what happens.  I hope to be able to work on this next week.  My weekend is already full.


Thanks for the input and for giving me something to think about.


Take care,
Carroll

Offline Ufopolitics

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2022, 03:02:13 PM »
Hello Citfta,

First, let me say that I am very happy to see that my experiments somehow triggered people like you, of great expertise on this fields, to actually decide to start building a prototype based on the same principles!!

Second, I will offer, if you decide, for you to open a New Topic on my Main Thread, as I will be moderating it for you...in case you do not want some negative comments or noise there.

I think your idea is great, however, you really need to make all possible analysis before starting to put it together.

IMO, Bistander is right about the positioning of the second set inner rotor coil, which will generate the output...
However, I also agree, like you have said, it should be tested as is, then see what is the outcome.

Once you start rotating the three phase field, the fixed rotor claws will see alternated polarity changes, which will transfer (orderly) to the perpendicular coil, and this fact will generate the field change required.

Alternator rotor is made of two main steel parts (which are basically 'caps' to the main coil), upper and lower, with the claws alternating like upper-lower tooth facing the phase shifting coils.
Once you start rotating the field, each claw will alternate polarity in an orderly fashion, which -in overall view of the whole assembly- will generate upper and lower rotor caps to alternate main poles which will affect the inner single coil...and so, I believe you will see some induction output.

Eventually, I believe you will need to change the main inner rotor coil wire to a thicker gauge and more length (more turns)...to obtain more output...

Happy building and my best wishes!!

Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2022, 03:52:30 PM »
Think about that 'inner' coil, the field coil which is concentric to the shaft or axis of rotation. Actually, in its normal operation, it does not need to rotate. It would work just the same in the alternator if held stationary while the steel claw rotated. In standard alternator operation, it, the field coil, produces the RMF. But that process being reversible, would simply induce DC in the coil.

Whether that matters in this quest is dubious in my opinion. I do find this an interesting experiment.

Please don't give Ufo authority to delete me.
bi

Offline Ufopolitics

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2022, 04:33:15 PM »

Please don't give Ufo authority to delete me.
bi


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;D

Offline Ufopolitics

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2022, 04:45:42 PM »
Think about that 'inner' coil, the field coil which is concentric to the shaft or axis of rotation. Actually, in its normal operation, it does not need to rotate. It would work just the same in the alternator if held stationary while the steel claw rotated. In standard alternator operation, it, the field coil, produces the RMF. But that process being reversible, would simply induce DC in the coil.
bi

Hello Bistander,

Yes, I agree with you on the above...and that was my point, originally, when I have said that the Magnetic Field actually does not move at all in this type of Automotive Alternators...
What actually "simulates" a rotation of the field are the alternated NSNSNS claws spinning...plus, the way you have put it is perfectly well explained...yes, actually the coil did not need to rotate, just the claws.
However, look at it from "the other angle"...projecting a rotating alternated field to the now stationary claws...imagine it in your mind.
If it is done orderly alternated, it will "flash" upper and lower coil caps with NSNSNS...or viewing the way you like, it will alternate the B-Field Vector up and down related (parallel) to shaft direction.
Do you agree?

And do not worry...it would be exclusively up to Citfta if He wants me to delete you or not...hahaha

But, yes, definitively I also find it as a very interesting experiment.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2022, 05:05:17 PM »
If the stator is excited to produce the RMF, and the claws are stationary, the concentric coil sees AC. If the claws rotate at synchronous frequency, the concentric coil sees DC.
bi

Offline Ufopolitics

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2022, 05:40:17 PM »
If the stator is excited to produce the RMF, and the claws are stationary, the concentric coil sees AC. If the claws rotate at synchronous frequency, the concentric coil sees DC.
bi
Yes...agree.
Claws would be stationary, as rotor, as concentric coil...according to Citfta proposal.
So, through Rotor slip rings it will collect AC...and IMO, it will be pretty fast changes (short angles) from claw to claw angle.
Which is actually good, as the Generator side Rotor-Motor, would not need to go that fast (or 3600 RPM's)
Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2022, 05:48:24 PM »
But there is no moving magnetic field cutting the coil, which is the intent, or so I thought.
bi

Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2022, 07:59:36 PM »
Hi Bi,


The first alternator will be producing a 3 phase AC signal that will then be fed to the stator of the second alternator.  A 3 phase AC signal is constantly rotating so it would be causing the magnetic field to be cutting the coil of the locked rotor.  Or at least I hope it will.


Carroll

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2022, 09:41:23 PM »
The claw rotor of the second machine (stationary or not) will redirect the field (RMF) from the stator such that it is pulsating or constant, but not moving with respect to that coil.

That's why I suggested adding coils in the air gap (of 2nd machine) having radial axis(s) instead of axial axis.

Hey, I'm all for testing it.  I haven't actually measured it, just relating my interpretation of the standard theory. Perhaps someone can post a FEMM or flux map of the Lundell alternator so you can see what I'm talking about.
bi


Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2022, 01:13:51 AM »
Hi Ufo,


I forgot to thank you for your offer to host my thread in your section of the forum.  I appreciate that.  We'll see how it goes like this.  If there is too much negative or off topic comments then I may take you up on that offer.  Bi,  I was not referring to you, but there are some people on this forum that only seem to want to disrupt others threads.  I appreciate your comments and ideas. 


I did find a couple of alternators today in my collection of junk. I got the regulators and rectifiers removed and the bearings turn nice and free.  So now I need to make some holders for the brushes as they were originally mounted on the regulators.  I also found one of my old scooter motors for a driving force so I am on the way to getting something built.


Later,
Carroll

Offline kolbacict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1036
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2022, 07:19:22 AM »
Eventually, I believe you will need to change the main inner rotor coil wire to a thicker gauge and more length (more turns)...to obtain more output...
If you tell me how to take it apart. :)
I tried to knock down pieces of iron with claws, and a hammer and a press, and heated them with a burner. Nothing happened. they holded tight.  :(

Quote
So now I need to make some holders for the brushes as they were originally mounted on the regulators.
Maybe just cut off some conductors and solder the others?

Offline bistander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2022, 07:41:48 AM »
I'd certainly see if it works at all before rewinding to larger wire. All that would do is reduce coil resistance, and heat, to allow higher current output. But, if it's going to work at all, the existing coil wire size won't be a show stopper.
And if you know coil design basics, simply increasing wire size will not increase power output unless you can increase total mass of copper on the coil. There may not be (probably isn't) space available to do that on the existing rotor.
bi

ps. Regarding the brushes. That part won't spin so lose the slip rings and solder to the coil leads.