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Author Topic: Tesla switch concept revisit.  (Read 2194 times)

Offline captainpecan

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Tesla switch concept revisit.
« on: December 19, 2021, 10:07:21 PM »
I am currently working on a build of a combination of things I have just been wanting to experiment more with. I've been away for quite a few years and I'm just getting back in the swing of things. I am currently evolving my build according to things I'm learning and trying to fill in gaps of interests I've never gotten to test properly.


Something that has always held my interest is projects related to the Tesla Switch concept. The Ronald Brandt Tesla Switch plans that John Bedini has worked with and presented. There use to be a good number of experimenters building Tesla switch devices using mechanical switches. I cannot seem to find much that has changed in the years I've been away. If anyone knows of any others working on this general concept, please feel free to share so I can try and catch up a bit.


A big question I have, is if this concept may have a different name? What I am referring to is the simple task of sending current from batteries in series, through loads, and landing it into batteries in parallel. Running off of the difference between battery packs while charging the parralel packs. In a sense, just attempting to recycle the energy flowing through loads. Is anyone familiar with other names of this general concept for me to research others experiments with? I am not even sure this concept even came from Tesla per say, but it does carry the name of Tesla switch I believe Ronald Brandt may have named it as such. Some speculated that this is how Tesla ran his electric car. But I am unable to actually find anything that backs that up other than others saying what they also heard.


This whole concept has always intrigued me and I do feel it follows many things Tesla has tried to explain to us in many of his works. Like I said, I cannot say for sure this battery switching concept was even his. But it does seem that if we recycle the energy used to run loads, at the very least, we should be able to increase efficiencies well beyond sending all current to ground and wasting it.


Thought???
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 04:17:37 AM by captainpecan »

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2021, 10:52:34 PM »
The general concept of my build is very simple, but has many little concepts built into it. In general, I simply want to hook a self made motor generator combination that is maybe 90% or more efficient. As the load between batteries in series dumping into batteries in parallel.


There are many many ways of trying to follow this concept. But if you can pass, let's say 10 watts of power through motor coils and into the parralel battery pack, while also generating 9 watts of power from a generator hooked to the same motor into the parralel battery bank as well. If the transfer of energy from a series bank of batteries to a parralel bank is somewhat efficient, it stands to reason that it may be possible to recycle enough energy through the motor to get an overall gain in the end. Did that make sense how I explained it? That is what I want to test.


My actual build idea is much more complex with combinations of serpentine wound coils, regular wound round coils, an attraction motor concept, as well as mixing in some things I've learned from bedini and adams motor builds I have done. Will it all work and create more out than I put in... probably not... but I've got to learn stuff the hard way sometimes as we all do. I am building it in a way that I can simply hook some fins to it and put it in the wind and use it as a battery charger anyway when it's done and if it proves to be nothing out of the ordinary, so I'm out nothing but time and gaining knowledge anyway.


You see, I have always felt, that the magnetic field that forms around a coil of wire, IS NOT energy leaving the wire itself. That energy leaves as a result of sending it to ground in my opinion. I feel that that magnetic field IS THE ENVIRONMENT SURROUNDING THE COIL REACTING TO IT. And that that magnetic field can be used to generate energy INDEPENDENTLY from the environment itself reacting to the current in the wire and not actually the current itself. If that is true, as long as you cam recycle part of the original current instead of sending it direct to ground, there may be a gain in energy stored Ina battery bank that does not violate any laws of physics. It would simply be using an outside force to generate it, just like a windmill does. No violation there either. Just a different source of energy being converted. That's my theory I want to test anyway... I can't seem to find anyone really testing this exactly to prove it wrong yet.


Here is a short video that I made of an experiment I did over 13 years ago that got my brain running on this concept and it never stopped. I did however make a mistake in the video and used the word "gain" in energy at the end when I really meant to say "less loss" instead. However the extremely simple experiment is interesting.
https://youtu.be/vwp7podu06s


I'll start posting pictures and video of my build as I go along for anyone interested in following my craziness... lol.

Offline onepower

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2021, 08:42:56 AM »
captainpecan
Here is an interesting paper on the two capacitor paradox...
The Paradox of Two Charged Capacitors – A New Perspective
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.5034.pdf

Even after conduction and radiation losses are removed we still lose half the energy which agrees with your conclusion. I also did all the same experiments and came to a similar conclusion.

Logically, we cannot claim a load dissipates energy then place the same load in a system in which the end result does not change. As the paper I included shows the loss occurs in the capacitors or source/sink regardless of any supposed load in the system.

It's an interesting problem and a little science and deductive reasoning goes a long way.

We could consider the following...
1)In a cap to cap discharge we lose 50%.
2)In a cap to inductor to cap discharge we lose almost nothing.

So in instance two we utilized the kinetic energy of the electrons moving in the conductor to generate a magnetic field to conserve some of the energy in the system. However the kinetic energy of the electrons is not the total energy present in the system. I suppose the trick is accounting for all the rest of the energy in the system not utilized. As we can see from the two capacitor problem we can use it or lose it.

Regards
AC


Offline captainpecan

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2021, 09:11:22 AM »
@ onepower,


Thanks for posting that pdf. Very interesting read and exactly the type of stuff I'm looking to further my knowledge about. The part that makes me curious the most is if we replace the capacitors with lithium ion batteries. For instance, hooking the device inline between a 24v pack and a 12v pack and running it from the 12v difference as the energy flows from one pack to charge the other. They can have a charge efficiency greater than 95% in certain cases. I don't expect to see that good of efficiency, but if it can be done noticeably better than the near 50% I was able to duplicate in that elementary style experiment back then, maybe some really fun results could be noticed... Problem is, measuring exactly the amount of energy leaving a set of batteries and ending up in another set of batteries in a short period of time isn't quite as cut and dry as with capacitors. And then you deal with the charge curve of lithium ion that allows those greater efficiencies and so on. Soooo.... will batteries show the same type of losses as the capacitors do? My guess from reading that paper is that the very characteristic built into the capacitors that is causing the loss is not present in batteries. I need to read the paper a few more times tomorrow to make sure I grasped it all. It is way to early in the morning for me to be trusting my brain right now. But it appears that most of that energy loss in the capacitors are due to the internal pressures of the plates which is why the amount of energy to charge it is 1 volt is so different after there is already 12v in it for example. Batteries I believe are different in that aspect. Just my thoughts anyway.


But, I am currently doing a build to try and start testing these things and at the very least, settle many questions bouncing around in the old noodle I've had. Thanks again for posting the paper.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2021, 10:42:53 AM »
I remember someone here doing similar things a few yrs back


Series batteries through a motor to parallel batteries


And also an odd circuit where 2 series batteries through a load
to a reversed battery that charged.


I dont remember any ‘ou’ being found but there was a bit of
‘recycling’ of energy, or at least collection of wasted electricity.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 12:18:09 PM »

Offline icarus

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2021, 03:01:17 PM »
I think of interest for you: on google patents search for    US 2008/0030165 A1
Ciao

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2021, 04:02:59 PM »
I think of interest for you: on google patents search for    US 2008/0030165 A1
Ciao


Very much so. This I have not seen. Definitely is the same concept. Thank you.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2021, 04:12:10 PM »
I found this:
For anyone who is interested
 


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.greenoptimistic.com/build-tesla-4-battery-switch/%3famp


Yes, that is what I built years ago. I did not get ou at the time, but I seemed to get way longer run time. I did not stick to it long enough to give it justice. I have wanted to give it a better shot for a long while.

Offline Energy Hack

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2022, 06:21:14 PM »

I recently did a You Tube on the Tesla Switch using relays as switches and just (4) 12v batteries.  I could not get the HZ above about 30 with standard auto relays.  Probably solid state would work better or at least it would switch much faster. (i was hoping to get over 100Hz).  Some old reports on the switch state it should be effective over 100Hz.

When measuring power delivered to load it was about 83% of stated battery capacity using LiFePO3 batteries.  (For load, I charged another 12v battery between the switch batteries by running a boost converter and then some LED bulbs in parallel.) 

Here's the video if anyone interested in the subject.

https://youtu.be/sYgtUcAJk5k 

I plan to do another iteration at some point. Thx


Offline captainpecan

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2022, 06:34:09 PM »
Thats awesome. That's exactly the kind of research I have been hunting for. There isn't enough people posting there numbers out there to see the actual run times. I have been doing something similar but its a very slow version of manually switching every so often after some energy has flowed for a while. It's not using the fast switching theory that Ronald Brandt said was the key. But it does appear to greatly increase the amount of run time I can light bulbs off of my simple invertor. There is a lot to learn still here. I am working on another project but it still has this concept wrapped up in it. Hopefully Ill have something to share soon.


What was your run time results? Did it seem to you that you were actually recycling that energy and gaining run time? It seems that way to me, although of course it does not charge up the batteries on it's own as Ronald  Brandt claimed. At least mine doesn't. They all run down, just much slower and I appear to get more work out of them before they do.

Offline Energy Hack

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Re: Tesla switch concept revisit.
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2022, 12:22:48 PM »
The run time was around 14 hours and the load 18 watts. (2) 4-watt LED's and a 10-watt Boost Converter charging an external battery.  I continually measured all the loads to confirm power output.   I did a second test and got similar results.  The system returns about 80% of the batteries stated capacity however once one battery goes dead I stop it.  There is in fact still power in the other three batteries though none are over 13 volts.  Also, batteries are over  year old and have been used in several experiments so they may not actually have 76wh in each (as stated on the battery).  I did NOT do a control group to see how much power they can deliver in a standard load set up.  I may do a third test and put just a DC motor in for the load to see if I get different results vs resistive load of LED lights.  It may also be possible to build this solid state with Mosfets and get the switching speed up to 100hz.  Trying to design that but my electronics skills are pretty basic!