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Author Topic: Buoyancy motor with fire  (Read 1356 times)

Offline jimbo

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Buoyancy motor with fire
« on: April 09, 2022, 08:35:29 AM »
I was having some breakfast and noticed the pot boiling and thought what if ??? Most buoyancy motors use water and a air pump and deliver like 1/3 extra power or they claim .but here I'm looking at this pot of water and its boiling creating a gradient in the water .why use a motor and pump air when steam bobbles might work .and if you used a very well insolated system you could run it on a candle flame .and be completely in closed .when the water hits boiling point it only needs a very small amount of energy to keep things going .if its well insolated .no big need for hi pressure steam just the desplacement of the water with steam .. And some liquids boil below the human body temp so flame not needed  like ether at around body temp . no electrical needed doable at a camp site scalable ?. Just a thought.

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2022, 01:05:27 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_cycle

If you understand the physics of the Organic Rankine cycle it may help you reason out how your buoyancy engine might function. Instead of a candle the sun could be your heat source.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2022, 04:55:20 PM »
To get enough work from lifting gas from the bottom, you need to have a sufficient height of the liquid column. A large column of water creates pressure at the bottom, the boiling point will be higher.
It works against us.

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2022, 05:11:14 PM »
In closed system although the water column will raise the boiling point the increased gas pressure from refrigerant boiling off will also work against you. You will have to condense that gas cap at a certain rate also.

Offline jimbo

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2022, 09:29:38 PM »
Yes a tall column but very well insulated .I saw a buoyancy motor diagram from a couple of researchers and it was a pot or pipe with a shalt in the middle with blades going up it many fan blades they were surrounded with a thin pipe  shield only 50% of the volume was used to go up the other 50% was going down out side of the thin pipe this created a fly wheel effect .they said this design was highly effective .I'd use the flame ...once the boiling starts the flame is all that's needed to continue . as a test unit .I'd use water because its safe .for now .this could be made small for camp fire use .
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 08:35:31 AM by jimbo »

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2022, 09:36:51 PM »
Can you provide a link to the info.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2022, 11:02:42 PM »
Most buoyancy motors use water and a air pump and deliver like 1/3 extra power or they claim .

I saw a video on this where it was advised use a small air pump to bubble air to the bottom of a tank, and collect the air in a cup like chamber to create a buoyancy motor.

I worked out the math.  Calculate Volume of air / depth to maximum possible joule output.  So I knew exactly how much power it can max out at.  Then calculate how much power it will take to run a pump to displace that volume of water with air at that depth.   I found out there is no power gain.  We are harvesting power from displacing water with air at a certain depth.  But we are getting the air there by displacing that exact amount of water with air by using outside power sources.

I can't comment on boiling.  But I did see a few videos of someone boiling water from eddy currents by alternating magnetic fields under an aluminum bottom beaker.

Offline jimbo

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2022, 08:31:52 AM »
Well if you think about it that bubble will rise a mile up in to the atmosphere .so you could be pushing something way up there with very little .I was thinking of using a HHO unit and running it @30 psi moving water as in a air water pump 15 ft into the air  and running it down a water escalator on a 45 deg angle .then using the hydrogen in a motor or fuel cell.that's double usage for one action .  no I don't have a link I saw it twice many years ago .it might still be out there on the web I don't know . but using boiling water is simpler its easy to replenish..safe ..and by using a upside down funnel on the bottom of the pot you could move most or all of the bubbles up in to the fans which might look like a jet engine intake .also fire is easy your walking on fuel in the woods .

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2022, 06:04:08 AM »
This reminds me of a thought experiment I came up with many years ago. I never looked into pressures to much. But your post reminded me of what I was thinking long ago.
Through some research, it appears that electrolysis improves up to 65% with higher pressures. If one was to have a very long, and deep column in the ocean, with the electrical wiring running all the way down to the bottom. In theory, it would take less energy to split the water molecules than above water level. Of course the splitting causes, the bubbles which can be used to generate energy all the way up to the surface using boyancy methods you are discussing. You could also draw some energy off of the surface turbulence as the bubbles release under the surface. Then of course, we can get energy still from hydrogen as it is still buoyant in air above the surface. Then of course we can burn the gas after we have generated any energy we can squeeze from it. Burning the gas will form water we can catch for desalinated drinking water. Then we can use the heat released from burning it to generate even more.
Yup. Lame brain idea. But it gets the old noodle moving. Just makes you think of all the natural processes we could technically capture energy from if we could of start the right chain reaction. Is this one feasible, probably not. Just a thought experiment. But sure seems like we can get a lot of possible energy from a tiny splitting of water.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 08:32:36 AM by captainpecan »

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2022, 06:09:10 AM »
Water also will boil in a vacuum. Just another possible boyancy avenue.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2022, 09:30:10 AM »
Through some research, it appears that electrolysis improves up to 65% with higher pressures.
Not 65 percent. Smaller.
But the output is really a little more.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2022, 09:50:29 AM »
Just was an UP TO number. Highest i saw in 1 study but they used different electrolyte of course as well. Just that it makes it easier instead of harder like one might just assume, i sure did.

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Buoyancy motor with fire
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2022, 02:02:18 AM »
https://youtu.be/8Zenn0VD2Bo

A device like in this video is what I thought Jimboot was thinking about.