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2022 builders survivor board => Captainpecan’s builders board => Topic started by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 04:01:06 AM

Title: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 04:01:06 AM
Floodrod's Etheric Generator

I been hunting for an action that creates usable electrical current with the condition that there is a window of "helping reaction" from the coil's generated flux.   Which possibly makes it feasible to switch the coil at exact times to harness the power of the coil's flux to work for us while eliminating "fluxing" the parts of motion that work against us.

I do believe I found a method that meets my criteria. Perhaps I am overlooking something - but I think it is my best idea yet. (yet so simple)

I will be investing time and materials in this new research / build. I do hope this concept strike a chord with others who will participate. 

Why is it an "etheric generator"?  - I got the idea for this by imagining flux around a coil as an "Ether Bubble".   You will see in the 6 minute  video.

The motion required to produce this possible opportunity of harvest is not the most desirable nor efficient. But if this meets my criteria of having the coil flux assist in power generation + possibly allowing me to only pick out the parts of gain- then so be it. 

If my idea is not debunked, maybe other minds can help think how to improve the motion to create this window of opportunity more efficiently.

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 27, 2022, 08:37:33 AM
I like where you are going with your research. The bubble explanation is a little different than what happens though I believe. It's not actually pulling you in, it's slowing you down. The slower it goes, the less it effects it. The less it effects it, the less amount of current is generated. Maybe think of it instead of like a bubble sucking everything in, it's more like a high friction bubble I would say. No matter what direction you move near and in that bubble, it will slow you down. I think that may describe it a little better. The fast short movement could be very effective though if done correctly. The current is generated by the CHANGE in the magnetic field cutting the turns of the coil. You don't have to move it far to cause a good change in the field. Short fast movement will generate pretty well also. Certainly an area worth understanding better by working it out on the bench.


There is however something I am seeing in what you are talking about the reminds me of a micro generator I made many years ago, but never did anything with it because at the time I had no idea how to boost the voltage enough to get through diodes and store it. I came up with a way to generate energy from wasted vibrations and movements of any kind. I may have to revisit that again now that I have more knowledge and resources to figure that stuff out. Picture this... I had some 3/4" disc magnets. I took a piece of PVC pipe, I think at the time I used 1.5" size, but you just need one that the magnets can move freely inside. I cut 2 rings out of the pipe. Stretched a balloon over the mouth of one of them. I put the other ring on top so that the stretched balloon was between the two and I taped it all up good with duct tape making 1 tube with a rubber diaphram in between the two. I then put magnet inside the tubes on both sides of the rubber and let them stick together on both sides pinching the rubber between them. Now I aligned the magnets in the center of the tube. Now a tiny vibration of the table makes the magnets bounce up and down. I then wrapped the pipe in magnet wire turning the whole thing into a coil with bouncing magnets in the middle. Hook it to a multimeter and you will see it generating off of very tiny movements. It works awesome. But when I did it, I couldn't get the volts high enough with the wire I used and magnets I used to ever push over that diode voltage drop. But, there are some good ways to do that now, and you can even buy magnet wire hair thin to wrap it with and get higher voltages. Not to mention series connections and multiple of them would get that voltage up a bit. But something like this could easily be put near something that is creating vibrations, and harvest some of that wasted energy. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm gonna have to make some more of these and play with them.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 12:49:05 PM
I like where you are going with your research. The bubble explanation is a little different than what happens though I believe. It's not actually pulling you in, it's slowing you down.

You're right. 1 magnet will slow it the whole time and won't work.

Even though I explained it with 1 magnet, when I thought of the actions I was using 2 magnets. I think if using 2 magnets. If they are all spaced correctly in relation to the size of the coil, drag could be eliminated.  One going left is creating a magnetic field that attracts the other right.  and vise versa.  Basically we work the motion to match the way Lenz is is working.

I will need to remake the video eliminating the 1 magnet parts.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 01:55:32 PM
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Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 27, 2022, 05:37:13 PM
Could be a possibility worth trying. But entering the coil the first magnet will pay the price and leaving the coil the last magnet will pay the price. Keeping them in the middle with short fast movements like you suggested could be worth a look. May be about time to order one of those magnetic filed viewing strips to kind of help see the blotch walls of the multiple magnets attached.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 05:45:02 PM
Could be a possibility worth trying. But entering the coil the first magnet will pay the price and leaving the coil the last magnet will pay the price. Keeping them in the middle with short fast movements like you suggested could be worth a look. May be about time to order one of those magnetic filed viewing strips to kind of help see the blotch walls of the multiple magnets attached.

Yea..  and I need to test out if reciprocating the magnet inside the coil will work. If the magnet has the right pole orientation, I think it will be most effective.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on April 27, 2022, 07:25:42 PM
I came up with a way to generate energy from wasted vibrations and movements of any kind. I may have to revisit that again now that I have more knowledge and resources to figure that stuff out. Picture this... I had some 3/4" disc magnets. I took a piece of PVC pipe, I think at the time I used 1.5" size, but you just need one that the magnets can move freely inside. I cut 2 rings out of the pipe. Stretched a balloon over the mouth of one of them. I put the other ring on top so that the stretched balloon was between the two and I taped it all up good with duct tape making 1 tube with a rubber diaphram in between the two. I then put magnet inside the tubes on both sides of the rubber and let them stick together on both sides pinching the rubber between them. Now I aligned the magnets in the center of the tube. Now a tiny vibration of the table makes the magnets bounce up and down. I then wrapped the pipe in magnet wire turning the whole thing into a coil with bouncing magnets in the middle. Hook it to a multimeter and you will see it generating off of very tiny movements. It works awesome.

It is interesting.

I also know another way.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Regarding the relevance of Hertz versus length of a stroke, I can't find much that I could understand in terms of generation. Lots of information about usage, which really doesn't apply here.

From what I think I might understand, higher frequency has more power.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Power generation is dependent on how much movement the magnet makes in front of the coil. Creating higher frequency by reciprocating extremely quick but very small strokes should make the same amount of power as reciprocating longer strokes but at a slower rate.

As an example. Say I reciprocate 1 inch per stroke and I could make 10 strokes per second. This should make the same amount of power as reciprocating 0.1 in per stroke and making 100 strokes a second.  With this reasoning be correct?



Thx
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 27, 2022, 09:45:27 PM
I think you are correct there. Someone may correct me, but that is how I understand it. Now one being more efficient than the other, I couldn't tell you that.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 27, 2022, 10:29:02 PM
Sweet. Certainly it will help with unnecessary vibration and wear on moving parts.

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 01:10:20 AM
Nope-  magnet in the coil is a no-go.

Produces great power, but drag is bad news.

If both poles in the coil- both poles either repel or attract to the coil, causing double drag.
If one pole is in the coil. that pole faces normal lens drag in and out.

Edit-  Magnets in the coils will work, but magnets would need to be positioned poles on flat faces with opposite polarities facing outward.  Then we make power and 2 alternating poles are facing the right way to neutralize drag as long as they stay in the coil.

I am going with the original idea.  It allows me to use cores and put coils on both sides of the magnets.  Let the build commence!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on April 28, 2022, 08:56:09 AM
I had this problem when I needed to convert the low travel and low speed of a Milkovich double pendulum arm into EMF.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 04:45:13 PM
WOW..  I think I found the best configuration...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13X58sQqtOU

If "Attraction is stronger than repulsion at shorter distances"  if we get the stroke length right=  No Drag

Edit. Reduce the stroke slightly more than neutralization point- it runs itself ??  (tapping the potential difference in the poles at correct spacing)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 06:14:38 PM
Don't need to "cut the flux" in this most optimal configuration yet. Movement can be inline with the coil direction.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 06:41:27 PM
ROTATION...

Rotating in middle of coil. 

Neutralized + switching window. Holy Grail?

Scope shows same way current throughout full 180 degree rotation.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 07:56:19 PM
Rotation Outside the coil also works.

Coil needs to extend past rotor


Edit-  I had the magnet direction wrong..  I'm going to show the right way.  hold tight
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 28, 2022, 11:08:29 PM
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpEyIP0TSu4

All lenz is neutralized.  Current flows 1 way with each magnet pass.

Switch the coils at gain moments.  Should work...

Note-  I think 4 pole rotor should work with no drag also. BUT you lose the chance to switch the coils for gain.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 29, 2022, 03:07:45 AM
One thing to keep in mind. Current only flowing in 1 direction does not mean no drag. Because the direction that current will run, is the drag. That current induced by the magnet, will generate a magnetic field in opposition to the field that created it. The best way to get a handle on this very frustrating beast, is to do exactly what you are doing. Hitting the bench! Also one of drawings above is the newman motor. Bedini window motor also is same configuration.


Keep it flowing!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 04:10:24 AM
One thing to keep in mind. Current only flowing in 1 direction does not mean no drag. Because the direction that current will run, is the drag.

I believe the video you sent me to watch pointed this configuration out at 38-39 minutes.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g

"If the coil is bigger than the magnets and the rotor does not pass over the edge, there can be zero cogging lenz in this configuration."  .  The same magnet pole can make the current flow in either way - the whole pass. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 29, 2022, 04:25:50 AM
I follow what you are getting at now. He is explaining a theory I think of letting the coil pulse align the magnet so all goes in same direction. Interesting. But would be fun trying to actually do it.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 04:32:14 AM
It all depends on the direction of the coil turns or the direction of the rotation..

One way it SUCKS..  Other way it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Running a magnet one way causes the current to flow the same direction the entire pass.  And you can choose what direction the coil is at what magnet by which direction you rotate the rotor.

Do I want the my North Magnet to enter on the coils North Pole or South Pole.... 

But again- the coil needs to be fully over the magnet and never pass the edge.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 04:50:28 AM
And putting the rotor IN the coil is the end all be all.  You get the FULL South and North forces at peak, and both sides of the coil are optimized.

Rotor can only have 2 polarities.  N and S. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 05:52:26 AM
Edit- magnet can not be in the coil.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: citfta on April 29, 2022, 02:56:09 PM
Hi Floodrod.


I don't want to discourage you because you are learning a lot.  But you still seem to have a problem understanding Lenz.  Your example in the last post about rotating a magnet one way that doesn't cause Lenz is clearly wrong.  But you need to build it yourself so that you can understand better.  Anytime there is current generated there WILL be Lenz.  Anything you do to reduce Lenz will also reduce the ability to generate current.  Your only hope is to be able to use Lenz in a way that will help rotation.  But as far as I know,  after many many years of research by many many people including myself NO one has found a way to do that.  Maybe you will be the one to do that if you keep trying new ideas.


In your example if you rotate the magnet one way it will generate current in one direction in the coil.  If you rotate it the other way it will generate current in the coil in the opposite direction.  Either way will still generate the Lenz effect if you try to draw current from the coil.


Keep testing and experimenting.  That is the only way to get a better grasp of how things work.


Carroll
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 03:16:29 PM
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Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 29, 2022, 05:04:32 PM
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Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 12:29:10 AM
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Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 01:39:12 AM
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Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 02:01:26 AM
I'm sorry, but that is not how Lenz works still. I think what you are stuck on is thinking that with the magnet inside the coil, since the poles of the magnet are opposing and the winding they each see are opposite, that this adds in the motion. Honestly, it just allows generation on both sides well. But the current that moves through the wire because of it, still opposes both sides of the magnet. Double induction, double Lenz. Lenz actually IS the current in the wire. That's what generates it. When you see a waveform on your scope, that simply means there is induction happening. That doesn't mean Lenz is not there. The fact that you see the wave at all, tells you there is Lenz there. The trick like citfa is trying to explain to you is to understand it, amd find a way to redirect it so that it aids. With the coil changes you are making, it is possible you could completely cancel Lenz. But when you do, you killed all the current because that is what creates it. No current, no Lenz, but also no power, just potential.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 02:15:59 AM
I'm sorry, but that is not how Lenz works still. I think what you are stuck on is thinking that with the magnet inside the coil, since the poles of the magnet are opposing and the winding they each see are opposite, that this adds in the motion. Honestly, it just allows generation on both sides well. But the current that moves through the wire because of it, still opposes both sides of the magnet. Double induction, double Lenz. Lenz actually IS the current in the wire. That's what generates it. When you see a waveform on your scope, that simply means there is induction happening. That doesn't mean Lenz is not there. The fact that you see the wave at all, tells you there is Lenz there. The trick like citfa is trying to explain to you is to understand it, amd find a way to redirect it so that it aids. With the coil changes you are making, it is possible you could completely cancel Lenz. But when you do, you killed all the current because that is what creates it. No current, no Lenz, but also no power, just potential.

Edit- Captain is right. Magnet i coil= great induction but lens at full force.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 02:38:39 AM
Would love for that to be the case. There's only 1 way to find out. And it's learning either way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage. We need more experimenters.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 03:07:13 AM
.....  You were right- magnet in coil is no good. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on April 30, 2022, 02:14:06 PM
Quote
Edit- Captain is right. Magnet i coil= great induction but lens at full force.
Everyone wants to have a useful EMF, but to cancel Lenz.
Is it possible to do the opposite, so that there is no useful EMF, but Lenz's countercurrent remains?
Just thinking out loud... ;)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: bistander on April 30, 2022, 04:58:06 PM
Everyone wants to have a useful EMF, but to cancel Lenz.
Is it possible to do the opposite, so that there is no useful EMF, but Lenz's countercurrent remains?
Just thinking out loud... ;)

Sounds like a shorted turn or loop of superconductor and reason it will levitate in a magnetic field, doesn't it?
bi
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 05:28:18 PM
Ok I think I got the configuration that may be reversing LENZ to work for me...

I can make input wattage go DOWN and RPM go UP by connecting a load.

Took forever to get the coils in the right direction, the rotor spin right, etc. Get them all in correct position with coils passing over magnets so the rotor magnets never go past the coils edge and we can get lenz to work for us.

I also think the drive coil can work for us..  I think the direction of rotation can also be positioned to get the drive coil to produce while it's pushing the magnet.

PLEASE Evaluate -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cluO1_0pG0g

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on April 30, 2022, 06:07:48 PM
Sounds like a shorted turn or loop of superconductor and reason it will levitate in a magnetic field, doesn't it?
I do not know yet.
Just trying to think outside the box.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 06:17:08 PM
Now you are getting somewhere. That's the effect we are looking for. Now, keep from drifting your thoughts to much into the wrong direction. Let's think it through and see if it can be debunked or not. Then move forward knowing you haven't missed something.


Just throwing this out there to test to try and understand exactly what is happening. We have to follow certain methods to not get drawn down a rabbit hole of misinformation on accident. Now let's think, we know we see the effect we want. Now let's narrow down a possible cause that could be fooling us. It is possible that before shorting, the magnets are drawn to the core more and slowing down the rotor. During a short, the core becomes more saturated by the induced magnetic field from Lenz law. This saturation can make the integration with the rotor less because it cannot draw to the core as much. Therefore causing what appears to be a speed up of the rotor, but in actuality is just giving you back some of what you accidentally lost already. This is the principle the orbo motor was designed on. They pulse the core to saturate it so it becomes invisible to the rotor through saturation. It's a fun design you might study someday. It's another backwards thinking concept. What you could be seeing is not actually an increase in rotor speed. It could be getting back what you accidentally wasted by having that coil core there interacting with the rotor at all. A simple test of this theory is remove 2nd coil all together and see if the rpms go up on there own. Does that make sense?


This isn't me being negative. Just trying to know for sure what we are seeing.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 06:29:04 PM
Now, if it is just a side effect of a saturated core and kind of an illusion of helping us. Then maybe we can use that too somehow? Even this doesn't explain it this time, it's another thing to consider for making that core less visible to the rotor in some later configuration. My mind is living through your experiments this weekend. I am out of town on a long drive away from my own bench until Tuesday, so I will be checking in to see what you learn this weekend. I'm stuck without my toys to play with... lol.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 06:30:50 PM
Now you are getting somewhere. That's the effect we are looking for. Now, keep from drifting your thoughts to much into the wrong direction. Let's think it through and see if it can be debunked or not. Then move forward knowing you haven't missed something.


Just throwing this out there to test to try and understand exactly what is happening. We have to follow certain methods to not get drawn down a rabbit hole of misinformation on accident. Now let's think, we know we see the effect we want. Now let's narrow down a possible cause that could be fooling us. It is possible that before shorting, the magnets are drawn to the core more and slowing down the rotor. During a short, the core becomes more saturated by the induced magnetic field from Lenz law. This saturation can make the integration with the rotor less because it cannot draw to the core as much. Therefore causing what appears to be a speed up of the rotor, but in actuality is just giving you back some of what you accidentally lost already. This is the principle the orbo motor was designed on. They pulse the core to saturate it so it becomes invisible to the rotor through saturation. It's a fun design you might study someday. It's another backwards thinking concept. What you could be seeing is not actually an increase in rotor speed. It could be getting back what you accidentally wasted by having that coil core there interacting with the rotor at all. A simple test of this theory is remove 2nd coil all together and see if the rpms go up on there own. Does that make sense?


This isn't me being negative. Just trying to know for sure what we are seeing.

I ran the output from the 2nd coul back to the input.  Connected Feeding into Input- RPM increase, and Input wattage decrease.   Opening the coil- RPM go down and Input goes up. 

See-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYvAPd9xqKI

If my theory is correct I can only get this to work spinning the rotor in 1 direction.  If I spin it the other direction- Lenz will work against me the whole time.  It should be very apparent.

I don't mind doing your test- but please explain more.  I would expect RPM to go up moving metal away from the rotor.  Metal creates eddy currents which slow me down.  Move it away and rotor will speed up.  I don't quite see how this test can be accurate



Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 06:40:04 PM
It's just a theory.. a possible debunk to get out of the way... let's ignore all the wire on the 2nd coil for a second. Just having that metal core there, will react with the rotor and slow it down. Now, you have that core wrapped with wire and shorted. Lenz creates a magnetic field that is saturating that core. The more the core is saturated, the less the magnets on the rotor are drawn to the core, the faster the rotor can turn with less drag on it. I'm suggesting, take the entire 2nd coil out at check your power draw and rpm without the 2nd coil in there at all...


If, it makes no change, then you are onto something. If it then speeds up your motor and current draw goes down with no 2nd coil, then what you are seeing is the effect of your rotor reacting to the core slowing it down. And then you are partially making the core invisible getting some of what you lost back instead of getting a gain overall. You see, a fully saturated core, a magnet passes right by because the flux does not interact with it. This could be what you are seeing that is speeding it up. We just need to know that the speed up is actually speeding up, or is it because you inadvertently slowed it down to start and are now getting some back.


It's just a possible debunk so we can understand what is really happening. It may not be Lenz speeding it up. It could be Lenz saturating the core and giving you back some of what the core took already.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 06:44:17 PM
There as a VERY Apparent difference in which direction the rotor spins.  No matter how much I adjust the timing, I can not get the other rotation direction to get anywhere close to this way.  Unless I reverse the coil direction.

If the coils go past the rotor, Lenz can work for you.  Please take the time to listen to the video you referred me to.  About the 36-40 minute timing he explains all this..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g&t=2550s
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 06:50:35 PM
I've watched it quite a few times. It needs more bench work for sure. But don't forget, that video is a very advanced part of his whole concept. There is a lot more he teaches on all his other videos to get you to that point. I don't pretend to understand it all myself. But what I do see is a possibility of what you are seeing I ran into long ago when playing with core saturation. That's why I am just saying it's a possibility. It's just very similar to what I've seen on the bench and it wasn't what I thought I was seeing then. Just making sure that this isn't what you are seeing now as well. His concept looks great. Not discounting it. Just making sire that's what's going on in this replication of it.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 06:56:39 PM
I watched it again. Don't forget, he is using an air core coil. The core is not a variable in his explanation. Your core is drawing the magnet towards it. His isn't. That changes everything. Doesn't change the concept, just changes the variables you have to consider while testing the concept. His theory is still there.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 06:59:00 PM
Gotcha.  I don't mind testing of course.  But I think  it has to be more fair and decisive.  The core does slow it down obviously..  Just because the core slows it more than the induction is helping is not proof the induction is not helping.

What would solve this is if I can build enough induction with no core and reproduce the effects.  I will see if I can do it
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 07:02:36 PM
Gotcha.  I don't mind testing of course.  But I think  it has to be more fair and decisive.  The core does slow it down obviously..  Just because the core slows it more than the induction is helping is not proof the induction is not helping.

What would solve this is if I can build enough induction with no core and reproduce the effects.  I will see if I can do it
Exactly!!! That's what I am getting at. I could be wrong, but I think your core is throwing in a variable that is skewing all your results. I think Lenz is simply starting to hide your core from the rotor giving you the effect you are seeing. Not that it is bad, just that we need to understand what is actually happening to learn from it and maybe use it too. But this way, you have to overcome all the other losses of having the core at all, before you can begin to see if the induction is helping. I think the concept is sound. It's just how to go about it.


Edit... also, the fact that you are getting back any of the losses the core adds, is a move in the right direction.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 07:08:00 PM
The entire parallel coil concept I have not worked with. It's very interesting to see results. I just don't have any bench experience to ad. Just what I've studied. I'm going to have to build a zero force motor even though many haven't had great results, just so I can play with variations.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 08:03:12 PM
Something to consider, if you are using this coil to induce sideways, the center core size may not matter much since the magnets see only vertically up the middle. I'm just thinking that you can use a thinner air core, maybe as small as a 1/4" wooden dowel or something so you can get more turns in a smaller area. Just a thought. Also, if you have any paired wire or 2 spools, maybe wind a parallel set if wires at the same time. Bifilar wound. Just so you will have more testing options to play with. Could hook the wires in series and would be just like 1 strand. Or could hook in parallel to see the changes. Amd maybe even hook them in series backwards to see how the opposite wound strands would effect things. Just kicking out thoughts that may allow you to play with more variables in you build to learn from.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on April 30, 2022, 08:12:12 PM
Tell me more about this core saturation.

1. If the core was saturated, would the coil still produce voltage?
2. How could regular lenz reduce core saturation?
3. I would think that for core saturation to go reverse, the Lenz has to be reversed?

Please clear me up here.  All new for me
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 08:40:59 PM
It's a little confusing to me as well. As far as the current direction from Lenz causing it, I'm not entirely sure. But what I do know, is that the rotor magnet is attracted to the core because the flux is able to go into it person and grab ahold of it. If the core is already saturated, meaning full of magnetic flux already, no more can penetrate it and the rotor magnet passes right on by. My guess is that the induced current from Lenz is at least partially saturating that core, reducing the reaction the rotor magnet has to it. It is not a bad effect, it's just not exactly the same as you were looking for. It is aiding in the rotor motion. But is that aiding only giving back a little we lost having it there at all. That's the issue. I will be driving in a couple hours for most of the night and may not respond. So I will try and find a good orbo explanation video that can show the underlying concept I think you are seeing here. Maybe we can use it as well. But it looks like it is showing you that what you are trying to achieve is partially being achieved, its just hidden inside another issue we need to wrap our heads around as well.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 08:47:01 PM
Here is part of what I am referring to. In this experiment, he is using a toroid. The magnet is attracted to the toroid metal. When he pulses it to saturate the toroid, the magnet falls away. It is not pushed away by the pulse. The toroid saturates and the magnets field no longer interacts with it. This is the concept I think you are seeing. Lenz is pulsing that core for you. The rotor magnet doesn't interact as strong as speeds up as well as less current because the core isn't slowing it down as much... that's what I THINK you are seeing. If the core wasn't there, I THINK your current will be less amd rpms greater already. I think you are getting back some of your losses from having the core at all.
https://youtu.be/Xjhh0Jwj7vo (https://youtu.be/Xjhh0Jwj7vo)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on April 30, 2022, 09:08:48 PM
Now, if we can use Lenz law to simply cancel a core interaction for us so we don't have to send a pulse to do it, then it's a win anyway. Consider this...


This is a really funky idea, but see if you can visualize. Let's say you have your exact setup with that tall coil. Your rotor turning vertically is causing the Lenz to help cancel the core. Yes it may be not giving a gain to the overall motion of your rotor, but hear me out. If you had a horizontal rotor above it far enough the magnets don't interact with each other. Or even just on the other side of the core. Would the 2nd rotors magnets would be attracted to the core and the proper timing with the lower rotor would allow a neutralized core at the moment the top rotor is trying to leave it. Giving an overall gain... I don't know if I examined that right. It's a wierd idea.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on April 30, 2022, 11:51:35 PM
Tell me more about this core saturation.

1. If the core was saturated, would the coil still produce voltage?
2. How could regular lenz reduce core saturation?
3. I would think that for core saturation to go reverse, the Lenz has to be reversed?

Please clear me up here.  All new for me
     

1:  Yes, it would but the amplitude of the induced voltage would be much less due to the fact that a saturated core loses it permeability down towards that of the air i.e. even as low as to 1. Putting this otherwise, the earlier coil inductance with the unsaturated core goes down as if it had no core or it would have suddenly a core with much less permeability. 

2:  In your test setup in question the prime mover (a changing magnetic field) rotates the magnets and the magnets induce eddy currents in the core of the 2nd coil and the fields of these eddy currents hamper the rotation of the magnets, this reflects in the prime mover input power. (So it is a good suggestion to remove the 2nd coil+core and see the input to the prime mover.) 
Now what happens if you load the 2nd coil and the coil current creates its own magnetic field?  IMHO the latter influences the intensity of the eddy currents: the directions of the two magnetic fields meeting in the core have an effect that let less eddy current induction happen, hence the core loss gets reduced too. Sorry that I cannot give an exact scientific explanation, perhaps other members here can. Such manifestation happens in the so called acceleration under load tests, experienced by several experimenters. IF your 2nd core (or the whole 2nd coil+core) is removed from the front of the rotating magnets, check the input current too and compare it to that of the presence of the unloaded 2nd coil + core (what you know already).     

3: Well, I would think not. In your 2nd coil when you load it, a normal Lenz effect happens when the rotating magnets induce voltage hence current in them.  And Lenz is to blame for creating eddy currents too (because the core is electrically conductive!) hence a drag to be explored when there is no load across the 2nd coil.   8)

 EDIT see this link, may be useful: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Lenz-s-law-and-eddy-current  (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Lenz-s-law-and-eddy-current) 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: Floor on May 01, 2022, 12:30:25 AM
As an aside, sort of ...

                                                    Newton and Lenz
                                           may not need to be over come. 
                      They likely, will be a part of     why    an O.U device functions.

          Personally, I think it a good idea to understand Newton's observations /" laws ",
                                     front ward and back ward, inside and inside out. 
              Not just memorize them, nor the given standard examples of their expression,
                                    but instead, fully comprehend what Newton observed.
... ... ... ...
                                                   That
Newtons observations       can be / have been     used to construe physic's laws of
conservation                        is quite obvious.                               
                                                    That
they are, now days, so written as to, at least imply those laws of conservation
                                           is also quite obvious.
... ... ... ... ...
                                                   Personally
I do not find physic's laws of conservation to be the natural consequence of Newtons
observations.  Neither do I find them to be some thing which is inherently with in
nor which is the essence of Newton's observations.
... ... ... ...
                                  To allow ones self to be convinced
                                                          that
                         the defiance of Newton's" laws" or Lenz's law
                                         is the path to free energy
                         is to have fallen for / be defeated by a kind of
                                            straw man debating tactic.

                                                          Example

                                      Perpetual motion is impossible !
Really ?

For one, why would anyone think that an O.U. device must be in perpetual motion ?
                                    Only in knee jerk defiance, that's why !

                                                          Beside that,
mankind knows of     no thing   which is not            already,         in perpetual motion !
... ... ... ...
                Defeat Newton's "laws" through permanent magnet interactions ? 
                                                               No!
      Defeat the idea that Newton's "laws" mean that magnets can not do work cyclically !
... ... ... ...
                                                          NEXT...
         Defeat the idea that Lenz's "law" must be over come in order to derive O.U. from
                                                               the fields !
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 01, 2022, 03:30:56 AM
Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek. We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said.
After all, if they didn't understand what wind was, a windmill would be perpetual motion as well. We never said there wasn't a source of energy for what we seek.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: Floor on May 01, 2022, 05:05:48 AM
Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek. We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said.
After all, if they didn't understand what wind was, a windmill would be perpetual motion as well. We never said there wasn't a source of energy for what we seek.

                      Well said.

"Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek."

                    Indeed / hence / one reason for my own / others use of the term "Over Unity".
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
"We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said."
True that..
                                                             But every thing       
                                  is already "hooked to the wheel work of nature"
                                                  regardless of what Tesla has said.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
               There are various definitions / classifications / ideas as to what constitutes a field.
Generally, our current vocabulary distinguishes regular / real world objects as not being fields.
                                                        however
                                                 Things are fields. 
                                    Fields with particular characteristics.
                    One of which is long duration in time, as (more or less) a pattern.
                                         Every known thing / object is a field.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
                         "After all, if they didn't understand what wind was,
                              a windmill would be perpetual motion as well."

Given that perpetual motion means that it never stops moving (more or less or practically speaking). Then no, they / people did not think it was perpetual motion and that is not and
was not the meaning of the phrase "perpetual motion".
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
               Energy is a concept, an abstraction, something which is inferred
                                          and which we mathematically derive.
                                                   It cannot be measured.
         Only the changes it has caused (past tense) can be observed or measured.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

                                              That having been said...

                    I think that Lenz's law should be studied / experimented with
                    and every imaginable method by which to "defeat it" explored. 

                     More importantly, every detail of it should be understood in terms
                     of the most absolutely basic and clear ways available to the individual
                                            who is exploring / doing O.U. research
                                                                  related to it.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 01, 2022, 08:18:38 AM
I am thinking the same way. I believe Lenz will be part of the solution, but probably not trying to get rid of it. I believe it will be finding a way to benefit from it. After all, that is a variable that shows up from an outside source in what people think is a closed system. We may not like it right now, but it's predictable, and repeatable, to give us the opportunity to learn how to make it work for us. I think it will have something to do with that, as well as recycling energy we used to create the effect in some ways.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 01, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I am thinking the same way. I believe Lenz will be part of the solution, but probably not trying to get rid of it. I believe it will be finding a way to benefit from it. After all, that is a variable that shows up from an outside source in what people think is a closed system. We may not like it right now, but it's predictable, and repeatable, to give us the opportunity to learn how to make it work for us. I think it will have something to do with that, as well as recycling energy we used to create the effect in some ways.

I am not trying to "get rid of lenz"..  I am trying to find a configuration where Lenz does not hinder the rotor.  Or better yet- assists.

Magnets going over coils invoke induction. Without this, there is no electric generated. I am looking to eliminate "LENZ DRAG"  --  Not the eliminate the whole Lenz effect.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 01, 2022, 01:29:15 PM
This is what I am getting at. 
And if you don't pass the edge of the coil- it's all one way. No flip on the way out
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: Floor on May 01, 2022, 02:12:48 PM
I am not trying to "get rid of lenz"..  I am trying to find a configuration where Lenz does not hinder the rotor.  Or better yet- assists.

Magnets going over coils invoke induction. Without this, there is no electric generated. I am looking to eliminate "LENZ DRAG"  --  Not the eliminate the whole Lenz effect.


Again..
Keep on rocken it, to the both of you.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 01, 2022, 03:32:16 PM
Okay I had it a little backwards. No need for a collection coil at all. Just a driver which acts as both.

Pulsing the coil will set direction of flux in coil. You have the ability to cause the rotor to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on when you pulse. The magnet tries to align with the coil polarity, causing the rotor to spin. Nothing new here.

Since this coil configuration causes only one way current with no flips, you can work against your input current or with your input current depending on which way you spin the rotor.

Essentially, you use input current to spin the rotor in the correct direction that the spinning magnets are adding to the induction instead of fighting it. It is possible to build more induction in the coil from the magnet spinning than induction required to spin the magnet.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 01, 2022, 03:52:46 PM
And I think magnet inside the coil, is even better. Same philosophy. Pulsing the coil spins the magnet very easy because of optimal flux alignment. And spin the right way, it will work in the same direction as the input current making it possible to get more out from the induction created from the spinning magnet then needed to put in to spin the magnet.

Edit. I am not 100% sure of this yet. Maybe wrong maybe right
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 01, 2022, 05:39:10 PM
Okay I had it a little backwards. No need for a collection coil at all. Just a driver which acts as both.

Pulsing the coil will set direction of flux in coil. You have the ability to cause the rotor to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on when you pulse. The magnet tries to align with the coil polarity, causing the rotor to spin. Nothing new here.

Since this coil configuration causes only one way current with no flips, you can work against your input current or with your input current depending on which way you spin the rotor.

Essentially, you use input current to spin the rotor in the correct direction that the spinning magnets are adding to the induction instead of fighting it. It is possible to build more induction in the coil from the magnet spinning than induction required to spin the magnet.
Now I think you are grasping what he was referring to in that video better now.


Quote
And I think magnet inside the coil, is even better. Same philosophy. Pulsing the coil spins the magnet very easy because of optimal flux alignment.
You basically described the joseph newman motor. Not sure the exact pulse time alignment as that, but same build. There are a ton of people who have made that design you can look at on YouTube to see its operation and learn from others work. But the timing of their pulse may make the difference. As with this concept, I think you are maybe hunting a pulse that both gives the push and the pull at the same time, but also attempting to have Lenz do the same, all in the same direction. It seems the pulses would be sent more out of alignment to attempt taking advantage of the spin. Almost like maybe pulsing out of conventional alignment. Not sure where the pulse is best for that one.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 01, 2022, 06:11:47 PM
Yeah. He certainly was going after Newman's theories..

I just need to stumble around in a dark until I understand it. But once I find the light, I well know all the ins and outs of it and can build it.

No video or textbook could have made it so clear in my head as actually making all the mistakes to get there along the way.

I will be looking at the videos now of other builds. I am still contemplating about magnet inside the coil, I cannot get it to work on paper. But I know one of his designs had the magnet in the middle
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 01, 2022, 06:37:59 PM
Yeah, one thing to keep in mind as well. He is sharing info he has learned from his bench work. That does not mean he figured it all out yet either. But, he certainly has a better understanding of the underlying physics than we do yet. That video is also 4 years old. That is Russ from Zero Fossil Fuels and he has been around forever in this industry. He has a very good understanding of the nature involved in what we do. Learning from his successes and failures is a very good step. That series he put out has a ton of good info in there.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 01, 2022, 08:16:55 PM
Yeah, one thing to keep in mind as well. He is sharing info he has learned from his bench work. That does not mean he figured it all out yet either. But, he certainly has a better understanding of the underlying physics than we do yet. That video is also 4 years old.
That is Russ from Zero Fossil Fuels and he has been around forever in this industry. He has a very good understanding of the nature involved in what we do. Learning from his successes and failures is a very good step. That series he put out has a ton of good info in there.


That is indeed Russ whose video you referred to but Zero Fossil Fuel is another person.  See the text from Russ under this video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42un77XxTg0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42un77XxTg0)   

Russ runs the RWG Research Lab https://rwgresearch.com/ (https://rwgresearch.com/)   and his forum is this:  https://open-source-energy.org/ (https://open-source-energy.org/)   

Ok? 

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: ramset on May 01, 2022, 08:29:08 PM
Sorry to interrupt
However Russ would probably be available for input here ( can be contacted if necessary?)
He is also steadfast open source fellow!
Respectfully
Chet
Ps
Please remove this comment if ? ( for any reason)


Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 01, 2022, 08:35:14 PM

Well Russ is a member here  8)    https://overunity.com/7030/stanley-meyer-explained/msg511643/#msg511643 (https://overunity.com/7030/stanley-meyer-explained/msg511643/#msg511643)  Probably a heads up could be made towards him.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 01, 2022, 08:55:26 PM


That is indeed Russ whose video you referred to but Zero Fossil Fuel is another person.  See the text from Russ under this video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42un77XxTg0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42un77XxTg0)   

Russ runs the RWG Research Lab https://rwgresearch.com/ (https://rwgresearch.com/)   and his forum is this:  https://open-source-energy.org/ (https://open-source-energy.org/)   

Ok?
Oh crap, I confused myself. I had just been watching another video from zero fossil fuels just prior to that comment... lol.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 02:05:09 AM
I am still convinced there is helping action here drawing power with this configuration.

We can all agree current travels only  1 direction the whole pass if we do not cross the edge of the coil. Which means travel of magnet over the coil - the polarity of the coil stays the same the whole way. I can show this- also Russ shows this many many times.

Take A and B..  Same direction of travel and same polarity of coil.  If A isn't going to happen, Neither is B...  If A does happen- then B happens also.

Now take C and D.  Again, same direction of travel and here will will assume the opposite polarity coil..   Whatever happens to C will also happen to D.

Does anyone see what I am saying?  If there is Full Drag with C then there is No Drag with D.

It is my bet that A and B are both Incorrect.  And C and D are correct

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 02:53:14 AM
Even better yet- I can make either of these happen by flipping the coil..     I can get current to flow either direction I want the whole pass (going in the same direction of travel)..

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 02, 2022, 03:09:03 AM
Looks like it's an actual bench test that will answer your question best. BTW, did you happen to remove the 2nd coil just to get a set of baseline numbers to compare to? You know, rpm, volts and amps. Then whatever you test, you have a much better idea of what the results mean overall.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 03:25:18 AM
Looks like it's an actual bench test that will answer your question best. BTW, did you happen to remove the 2nd coil just to get a set of baseline numbers to compare to? You know, rpm, volts and amps. Then whatever you test, you have a much better idea of what the results mean overall.

I was planning on doing the air coil test to get accurate results I can trust.  I got copper ordered...  But what I am seeing now-  ummmmmmmm.........

Reciprocate a magnet inside a coil..  Don't go past the edge of the coil...  You can switch lenz to either work for you or against you by flipping the coil direction.  And magnet inside the coil is awesome induction..

watch-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI0HDG6naO0
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 04:03:39 AM
I am in contact with Russ via email.  I am asking him if what I am seeing in that vid is what I think it is.  If he replies again- I will post his reply
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 02, 2022, 04:17:49 AM
I dont think flipping the coil is only changing the Lenz law effect direction. All that does is simply flipping the polarity. You flip the induction as well as the back emf. Both. So you get the same result, it's just opposite polarity because the wire is running opposite direction.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 05:15:55 AM
I dont think flipping the coil is only changing the Lenz law effect direction. All that does is simply flipping the polarity. You flip the induction as well as the back emf. Both. So you get the same result, it's just opposite polarity because the wire is running opposite direction.

Makes sense-   If the front of the coil was south the other end was north already. (i overlooked that)      Flipping it did nothing.  Lol...  It the line stayed the same direction both sides, then that would have been promising

So either way- it was like the image below regardless which direction the coil was.  Which is still good for rotation i think.

I will do the air coil bench test soon enough
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 02, 2022, 05:53:17 AM
I do see the use for the arc style coils of the zero force motor design.
As far as moving to air core coil. Good move, but don't completely ignore the steel core. There could be much to learn with experements there. Your speed increase is something to explore, even though it may not be more than you lost, it's still there and interesting.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 02, 2022, 01:13:19 PM
I do see the use for the arc style coils of the zero force motor design.
As far as moving to air core coil. Good move, but don't completely ignore the steel core. There could be much to learn with experements there. Your speed increase is something to explore, even though it may not be more than you lost, it's still there and interesting.

Yes- the new coils I will make will have a hollow tube where I could place a steel rod it I like, so I can experiment all ways.  It will be tested for sure.  Few days till I have the setup to test all accurately. 

I did a simple test energizing the coil to see interaction with the different motion to form a hypothesis. And I am seeing what my picture showed.  Traveling down the side in a straight line - the coil should do everything it can to restrict my motion in the stroke.  But coming in from an angular motion via rotation seems to change he dynamics. That restricting motion caused by a vertical pass reacts opposite on the magnet if it's coming in on an angular trajectory.

And verifying that current direction is the same in both orientations has been done by Russ and myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hg7_Lotf5U

I will test this hypothesis
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 08:32:49 AM
Something with your last video seems odd. I get what you are questioning about lenz. That isn't what I'm a little confused about. What I am confused about it that you are showing that with the power turned on to the coil the entire time, it is pulling the magnet inward on the approach, and at the middle point it begins to push the magnets outward. You are saying you are getting an aid in rotation on the way in as well as on the way out with the coil turned on the entire time? So you are saying if the rotor had all N facing magnets it would continue to rotate without ever turning off the coil? That doesn't make sense. Maybe I am hearing you wrong? I'm just trying to understand what you are saying the setup you have there is doing, not thinking about the lenz side of things yet.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 12:34:55 PM
Something with your last video seems odd. I get what you are questioning about lenz. That isn't what I'm a little confused about. What I am confused about it that you are showing that with the power turned on to the coil the entire time, it is pulling the magnet inward on the approach, and at the middle point it begins to push the magnets outward. You are saying you are getting an aid in rotation on the way in as well as on the way out with the coil turned on the entire time? So you are saying if the rotor had all N facing magnets it would continue to rotate without ever turning off the coil? That doesn't make sense. Maybe I am hearing you wrong? I'm just trying to understand what you are saying the setup you have there is doing, not thinking about the lenz side of things yet.

With the coil powered, there are definitely sticky spots.  We both know it won't rotate by itself. If it was a different style rotor- it would suck toward the top of the coil from the attraction then stay there.  If we gave it momentum to get past the sticky point- the repelling fields would give it a kick on the way out.  But there is definitely a gate to pass. Sort of like caloways old V-Gate.  And we know the V-gate doesn't run by itself either.

But the V-gate uses a permanent magnet as a stator with a constant field, where I would use coil inductance. The differences is a coil can be switched on/ off and has varying flux levels depending on the magnet speed / proximity.  And we also know the V-gate would self run IF we were able to turn the stator permanent magnet on and off at exact moments (without using power).

With my current design- I can not build enough induction using an air coil to get any attraction on the way in or repulsion on the way out yet because the magnet is not close enough and I do not have the proper copper to make a coil without raping my iron core one- which I want to keep. 

My copper wire should be delivered today- and I am going to redesign the rotor so I can pass the coil with more area coverage on the way in and out.  And I am going to hit the coil from both sides with 2 rotors. 

All this leaves 1 last question-  I wasn't switching the coil- so if this effect was making mine speed up- how could it when the V-gate doesn't do that?  My guess is, the side of the coil is not equal in magnetism the whole way.  The top and bottom of the coil would have the highest degree of force and the middle should be neutral. So if my rotor magnet was perfectly aligned with the coil (dead center) I should have equal pull in as push out.  But what if it wasn't aligned exactly right?  What if my coil was positioned a little up or down to make the repelling out side closer to the pole than the attraction coming in?  Is this why I could only make it happen in 1 direction and not the other?

To sum up my answer to your question-  If I was controlling the power input to the coil at the right timing and positioned the coil in the right way to give 1 side more than the other when I cranked it up- yes I think I can get it to keep going.  But not with a static field centered. When using the magnets to create induction, it may make this possible because the field is changing with respect to the magnet position and I can tilt and move the coil to different positions.

All this is just my current throey. There may be nothing here, or maybe there is.  but All my data is saying something cool is happening..  This is the closest I been to any effects I seek, so I definitely need to experiment with different designs , positions, switching, and all that to get that coil full of induction with the magnets then see if I can use it to help me.

Edit- 1 last thought.  In my other thread, a link was posted evaluating efficiency when positioning small coils this way . The efficiency was measured up to 53% if I recall.  And every one that I saw were passing the edges of the coils..  Passing the edges slows you down on the way in and out.  Now take that data-  eliminate the resistance passing the edges- and possible even switch out the sticky point.  That's the direction that needs to be explored IMO

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 03, 2022, 01:04:08 PM
The differences is a coil can be switched on/ off and has varying flux levels depending on the magnet speed / proximity.

If you do not use power supplies, then yes. Just short the coil with contacts.

And we also know the V-gate would self run IF we were able to turn the stator permanent magnet on and off at exact moments (without using power).
I'm afraid it is. A lot of time has been spent on these devices.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 01:17:26 PM
I'm afraid it is. A lot of time has been spent on these devices.

Plenty of videos using power to neutralize the PM at the gate and it will run.  Just not without using power or outside force.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 03, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
Yes. I did it with an electromagnet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjAQUkHuTn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjAQUkHuTn8)

з.ы.
And what if we twist the magnetic field like air in a Ranque-Hilsch tube? Which separates the gas of the same temperature into hot and cold.
Lenz will come out in one direction, useful EMF in the other? ;D
Crazy thoughts?
But how original...  8)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 03, 2022, 03:20:16 PM
Yes. I did it with an electromagnet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjAQUkHuTn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjAQUkHuTn8)

...
 

Hi kolbacict, 

What if you replace your electromagnet with an actuator arm?  The arm would move up and down vertically and its bottom would be glued to the diaphragm of a loudspeaker.  The top of the arm would hold a permanent magnet which would help reduce the strength of the sticky point of the V-gate whenever the rotor arrives there. 
The coil in the speaker would receive pulses to lift up and release the arm at the correct moments. 
This idea came from member Liberty and he made tests on such setups but he did not use V gate but I think he used magnets glued onto a rotor in a spiral line where the sticky point happens when the rotor magnet closest to the rotor edge arrives at the actuator arm magnet. See his short videos: 

https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor/videos  (https://overunity.com/Hi kolbacict,  What if you replace your electromagnet with an actuator arm? The arm would move up and down vertically and its bottom would be glued to the diaphragm of a loudspeaker. The top of the arm would hold a permanent magnet which would help reduce the strength of the sticky point of the V gate whenever the rotor of the V gate arrives there. The coil in the speaker would receive pulses to lift up and release the arm at the correct moments.  This idea came from member Liberty and he made tests on such setups but he did not use V gate but I think he used magnets glued onto a rotor in a spiral line where the sticky point happens when the rotor magnet closest to the rotor edge arrives at the actuator arm magnet. See his short videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor/videos   See his website with some more details: https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/2601.html  https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/47101.html)    See his website with some more details:   

 https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/2601.html (https://overunity.com/Hi kolbacict,  What if you replace your electromagnet with an actuator arm? The arm would move up and down vertically and its bottom would be glued to the diaphragm of a loudspeaker. The top of the arm would hold a permanent magnet which would help reduce the strength of the sticky point of the V gate whenever the rotor of the V gate arrives there. The coil in the speaker would receive pulses to lift up and release the arm at the correct moments.  This idea came from member Liberty and he made tests on such setups but he did not use V gate but I think he used magnets glued onto a rotor in a spiral line where the sticky point happens when the rotor magnet closest to the rotor edge arrives at the actuator arm magnet. See his short videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor/videos   See his website with some more details: https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/2601.html  https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/47101.html)     https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/47101.html (https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/47101.html)   

Floodrod, sorry if this is off topic...   8)       
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: Cadman on May 03, 2022, 05:23:59 PM
Floodrod

Would something like this be worth trying?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 05:29:03 PM
Floodrod

Would something like this be worth trying?

Yes. But not with downward vertical motion, but with rotation. It downward motion should be restrictive the whole time.

I was planning to experiment with something similar, horseshoe-shaped coils with both feet going down.

The aim is to pass these coils in that same orientation without getting close to the edges. So your diagram is certainly something I am going to try. Good thinking!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 06:26:08 PM
Many ideas have rolled through here, so I'm just bring up something to think about I mentioned before. If you are looking to wind another coil with your new wire, you might consider winding 2 parallel strands. Just so you can test some different arrangements. You can always hook the 2 strands in series and it will be just like a normal wind anyway. But you can hook different ends up and see the effect of trying to draw energy off one strand while running with another, or hook them in series opposite directions just to see how it would effect things. Just an idea you might think about that could give you more things to test and learn from if you are winding a coil anyway.


Also, if you are trying to save that iron core, wrap it in wax paper or something before you wind it. Or find a piece of pvc it will slide into nicely and wrap the pvc. That way you can slide the core out. It would also allow you to test your setup air core or iron core, and different variations of how far the core is slid into it and hanging outside the wire turns. Just different thoughts that may help you get more learning out of that bench time!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 06:35:30 PM
Many ideas have rolled through here, so I'm just bring up something to think about I mentioned before. If you are looking to wind another coil with your new wire, you might consider winding 2 parallel strands. Just so you can test some different arrangements. You can always hook the 2 strands in series and it will be just like a normal wind anyway. But you can hook different ends up and see the effect of trying to draw energy off one strand while running with another, or hook them in series opposite directions just to see how it would effect things. Just an idea you might think about that could give you more things to test and learn from if you are winding a coil anyway.


Also, if you are trying to save that iron core, wrap it in wax paper or something before you wind it. Or find a piece of pvc it will slide into nicely and wrap the pvc. That way you can slide the core out. It would also allow you to test your setup air core or iron core, and different variations of how far the core is slid into it and hanging outside the wire turns. Just different thoughts that may help you get more learning out of that bench time!

Yes. Double winding sound like a definite. Thank you for that.

Regarding the new coil, I was going to do it around a plastic tube which I could slide a core in and out.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 06:53:56 PM
Keep in mind also, you are following down the path of experiments that Russ shared. Assume, you will have to try something totally different here somewhere. Keep thinking out of the box. Russ is VERY OPEN SOURCE. If he figured this out completely, he would have shown you the exact working device and exactly how to make it. So just following those assumptions, do not get discouraged. Just understand, this probably will not be an obvious solution or he would have nailed it down already. Just use that info to understand that what he did was share all his work so that we can find what he may have missed but was searching for. You are learning more at the bench than many learn ever with just thinking about stuff. That's exactly how it works, and why we have to keep at it. Because I have a feeling that the solution to free energy will probably be something completely counterintuitive that you have to notice by actually doing it and not just visualizing it. Like the double slit experiment in quantum physics. No amount of theorizing would have expected the results they get when they actually do it! If you have never looked at the double slit experiment, it's worth a look. Slightly off subject, but not as much as you might think. Could even explain a source of free energy. It's a fun little video that gets your brain moving if you haven't seen it yet.
https://youtu.be/Q1YqgPAtzho
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 07:09:18 PM
Yes, I have read much on that subject. I'm no stranger to the power of collective consciousness, sacred geometry, and all the anomalous subjects that the wonderful internet has offered over to past couple decades.

One of my family members has direct contact daily with Brad Sorensen. I've spoken to him once or twice. If you ever heard of McCandlish or ARVs, Brad was the source who brought all the information to McCandlish. S4, alien technology kind of guy. He holds 400 patents for a lot of top military stuff.

The only inkling we could get out of him of free energy was that short stroke reciprocation can lead to something. But I do not think that's the only way. But these are subjects I'm assuming he cannot talk too much about due to disclosure things. I am sure if it was not possible, he would have no hesitation saying you're wasting your time.



Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 08:13:06 PM
I'm finally back home from a long trip so I can start hitting the bench again soon myself. A few thoughts about your project that keeps rattling around in my head I may need to try and explore a bit. I think I will wind some stuff to play with.
One of your earlier experiments APPEARED to neutralize the core of the coil seemingly from the induced current of Lenz law. I think you saw it as an increase in rotor speed but the discussion of having a core causing more slow than the speed gain kind of drifted the subject. I am thinking back to the result you did get. Even if having the core slowed the rotor more, the fact that you got an increase in speed at all is note worthy in my opinion. I think the amount of saturation decreased the rotor magnet attraction to that core. That can be useful. Of course using a different arrangment probably. But if we can get a neutralized core as a side effect of something we are already doing for another function, it could be an additional source. For instance, ignore a coil. A magnet rotor would attract to the metal and if it was neutralized at the moment it began to pass the center and pull away, we have rotation. If we didn't have to pay for that pulse that neutralized it and it was done as a side effect of something else we were doing, then we can get a free gain of energy to help offset something else. Not sure I even explained that well.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 08:24:51 PM
I am not convinced it is the core yet. If it turns out to be, I am not opposed to going down that direction. But I will need confirmation first.

I see my theory very convincing still. Holding the coil vertical and making a vertical pass with the magnet should definitely create resistance the whole way. But when we pass the same coil with rotation, that resistance is no longer the same and it appears to be interacting with the motion in a totally different manner.

If you have any video references of desaturating a core to get something to run better, please send my way. I can't even begin to speculate on that subject because I have no clue how that would possibly work.

Hopefully I will know more in a few days, as my weekend is quickly approaching and I could get more data on this phenomenon




Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 08:36:39 PM
Thats actually just the simple test of removing that 2nd coil and core all together and get a speed rating and current draw without any additions so there is a baseline number to work from. Something is speeding it up. But the only way to understand what it is is just to narrow it down. As far as saturating a core to speed up a motor I have seen quite a few times in videos and stuff. It's usually done and not recognized as to what is really happening. There was a Thane heinz debunk video I saw this effect being shown. Now in his video, he described it as a debunk to thanes speed increase. I can't say I 100% agree, just that this effect is demonstrated and in his video, it does make sense. I'll try amd find it and add it. But the video I posted earlier of the torroid and the working concepts behind Stearns orbo shows neutralizing a core. It was a torroid, bit the concept is the same. I'll try and edit and add some links. I'm not saying this is what is going on, I'm just saying this COULD be the speed up you saw in that test and isn't to hard to debunk if it isnt. But this is me referring to one of your earlier experents, not so much your latest one.


Here was an old video of debunking Thane heinz. I'm not giving an opinion on that, and whether or not he actually did debunk thane heinz speed up effect, but he does do some valid experements that show saturation increasing speed.
https://youtu.be/kfRxsC9yumQ (https://youtu.be/kfRxsC9yumQ)


And Here is one I posted earlier that simply shows a pulse saturating the toroid so the magnet is no longer attracted to it. Neutralizing that core per say. You are not seeing the magnet propelled away. It's just falling away because it is no longer attracted to it.
https://youtu.be/Xjhh0Jwj7vo (https://youtu.be/Xjhh0Jwj7vo)


These I think could give the speed up of your motor test. It's a theory anyway.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 08:49:08 PM
It actually is kind of hard to debunk.

Just removing the core to see the speed is not going to answer the question accurately.  It is already known a hunk of metal will slow the rotor. Move the metal away and the rotor goes quicker. There's no arguing that. Just because the rotor is going quicker without the core does not mean that the inductance wasn't helping the rotor. It could very well be that the inductance was helping the rotor, just not enough to overcome the resistance of the core.

The only way I see to accurately answer this is to see if I could reproduce the effects without a core.

I will know soon enough. And you could be assured I will share the results like always.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 08:59:10 PM
I'm sorry, your not getting what I am saying on the debunk. We agree, the core will slow it down. The question is how much. The test without the coil or core all together to see the speed of motor and current draw will show you exactly how much you do lose adding that core there. Then when you induce the current from Lenz into it and it speeds up the rotor, you will know exactly how much it added to the speed, even though it will not get back more than you lost by having the core at all. Then you will have some base numbers to compare to. My point is, I don't think you got more speed increase than you lost simply by having the core. But you DID GET AN INCREASE.... that's note worthy and I don't think we should ignore it. Now it's a matter of explaining why amd trying to narrow it down. Once it is fully understood why, we can begin to manipulate it in different ways to maybe get use from it. I'm simply suggesting getting a set of baseline numbers to work from so you know where you are at in each experiment. The fact that younwere not able to get enough just using the air core also tells you that the core was imperative to the experiments speeding up result. But why? That's the question.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 09:09:30 PM
I don't mind doing it. And I will certainly post a numbers.

I just am failing to see how it will Tell us much.

Let's just say it goes 2000 RPM without the coil there.
Now it drops to 1500 RPM with the core and coil there open.
Then it speeds up to 1700 RPM when we load it.

These are just examples, but what would this have told us? I don't see how this will tell us if we were speeding it up from rotor coil interaction, or from saturating the core. Can you explain a little deeper?

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 09:23:29 PM
Sure, the point of the test comes from your original thought of what was happening. You originally saw a speed increase and thought that it was Lenz speeding everything up and we solved the problem. Later you have realized that a speed up, ignoring the original slow down, did not give us what we thought. It was an over all loss still, just less. Not having those original numbers causes that jump to confusions. Having those numbers helps document for future theories. For instance, now we know the core is definitely part of the equation. When we can see the speed up from Lenz, we can measure how much is generated causing it. We can then feed the same amount of current into the coil and measure the effects of saturation and if it is even enough power to cause any saturation at all. If it is not, then saturation is definitely not the cause. But without a set of baseline numbers, we don't even have anything to compare future teat results to.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 09:30:10 PM
Okay I will do it. Just so you know though that coil produces like no amps. That thing goes past 100 volts but even with a load I can't even see a hundredth of an amp with a load.

It's somewhere about 8000 feet of 30 gauge. 2.5 lb worth

And the core is a piece of a garden cart axle cut off
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 09:38:39 PM
So, you are getting basically no Amperage out of that and you are getting a speed increase shorting it? That coil must be way bigger than it appears in the video. I'll wind up a test rig and see what's going on here when I get settled in from our trip.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 09:59:07 PM
I am not home now, but in a few hours I could send measurements and ohm readings of it. I'm going to guess it's somewhere about 10 to 12 in long. And the circumference is probably about that of an egg.  The core rod is probably about 5/8 to 7/8 of an inch diameter and runs the length of the coil.

The voltage shocks uncomfortably when it hits me. But yeah no amps really

The prime mover on the other hand has amperage if used as a generator coil
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 10:24:10 PM
And for what it's worth. I have tried using the black coil as the prime mover. My power supply goes up to 32 volts. I can max out the power supply at 32 volts and it uses 0.00 amps.

The black coil can make the rotor spin, just very weakly because I can't get any amps into it.  The blue and white coil on the other hand uses some old cat5 wire I had laying around. At 32 volts it pulls about a half an amp which is plenty to speed my magnet rotor up
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 03, 2022, 10:26:52 PM
With that number of turns, it could actually generate a pretty strong magnetic field. Even though there isn't much for current, that could have a large ffect on things.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 03, 2022, 10:46:52 PM
With that number of turns, it could actually generate a pretty strong magnetic field. Even though there isn't much for current, that could have a large ffect on things.

I think so, it inducts great I think. I could get it to speed up the rotor to good speeds by holding a piece of metal from the top of the core down a couple inches into the coil above the rotor. I think it doesn't do good as a prime mover because it is much larger than the rotor so the strongest poles are quite far away from the rotor
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 04, 2022, 12:08:56 AM
Okay I will do it. Just so you know though that coil produces like no amps. That thing goes past 100 volts but even with a load I can't even see a hundredth of an amp with a load.

It's somewhere about 8000 feet of 30 gauge. 2.5 lb worth

And the core is a piece of a garden cart axle cut off
 

Well, your coil with the awg 30 and 8000 feet has around 825 Ohm DC resistance and considering its surely high inductive reactance at the rpm frequency you induce AC in it, the low output current could be explained. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 01:18:25 AM
As for the power supply maxed out and showing 0 ma, that just simply means less than 10ma. Many do that. Mine does. With that much resistance, it's entirely understandable.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 01:40:19 AM
Coil rang out on my fluke at 720 ohms. Measures 7.5" long by a little under 2" diameter.


positioned a new style rotor -  ran it to about 3500 rpm with the core in front of it.
No core or coil- Just rotor.  3585 RPM.  14 volts- averaging about .7 amps
With core and coil:
Coil was producing 85 volts open circuit.  RPM was about 3530 open circuit. 14 volts .83 amps (average)
Shorted coil- Volts went to .02.  RPM stayed the same. 3530 ish.  14 volts and about the same amps.

Input amperage is harder to tell because my PS auto adjusts. so these are close averages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch/P7QqrhHqzNs

I will do more tests
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 02:12:11 AM
Coil aligned around dead center.  Horrible spacing as I have a bolt in the way. With much worse spacing, coil loves it. 113 volts open. I could only imagine if the gap was good.

No RPM decrease or raise in input amperage noticed  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ZmJ6fmZ8g

I'm thinking I need to drill a hole in a core amd wrap the coil leaving a hole so the axle shaft can go through.  Hit this coil from both sides with 2 rotors
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 03:22:24 AM
Ok so I need some clarification on something.  It's very possible my mind is just missing something here.  But the logic doesn't make sense to me.

I can show moving the magnet makes the current go 1 way when passing downward on the outside of the coil- and current goes opposite way when passing downward on the same side inside wall of the coil.  How could both ways be restricting my movement when the current flips depending what side of the wall you are on? 

I recorded a demonstration here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMuInkauxkM   

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 03:34:12 AM
To answer the last video. What you are missing is viewing the problem from the perspective of the magnet. The magnet on the inside of the coil is reacting to a coil wound from left to right (per say). Then the magnet on the outside of the coil sees the coil winding from right to left. To the magnet and the direction the force is coming from, it is all opposite so therefor the polarity is opposite. Nothing there t9 add to anything. Just opposite side sees the winding opposite so gives you opposite polarity.


Another way to look at it, you are technically flipping the magnet around to face the same pole inward. Think of this. If a guy behind you is facing your back and holding his right hand up, then he moves in front of you and turns around to face you but still holding his right hand up. It is now the opposite side to you even though to him it is still his right hand.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 03:58:18 AM
To answer the last video. What you are missing is viewing the problem from the perspective of the magnet. The magnet on the inside of the coil is reacting to a coil wound from left to right (per say). Then the magnet on the outside of the coil sees the coil winding from right to left. To the magnet and the direction the force is coming from, it is all opposite so therefor the polarity is opposite. Nothing there t9 add to anything. Just opposite side sees the winding opposite so gives you opposite polarity.


Another way to look at it, you are technically flipping the magnet around to face the same pole inward. Think of this. If a guy behind you is facing your back and holding his right hand up, then he moves in front of you and turns around to face you but still holding his right hand up. It is now the opposite side to you even though to him it is still his right hand.

What A brain twister.  Can we go a little deeper with this if you don't mind. I am still a little fuzzy about it.

Lets just say we are dealing with a north pole only. A big bar magnet only interacting the north face for simplicity.  Depending if the magnet is inside or outside the polarity of the coil flips because current flows in the other way.

In this example- pushing the North down inside the coil makes the top of the coil South,  resisting us the whole way.  But putting the magnet outside the coil causes the top of the coil to become North.  Now the exact same motion downward has no resistance.

I can comprehend your description if the magnet was going the other direction, or switing from the other end of the coil. But the exact same downward motion set the polarity differently with the same motion from the same starting point.

Sorry if I am wrong and I do appreciate you explaining.  This is just very twisty for me
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 04:00:19 AM
I think your rotor change completely changed your entire approach. I'll watch a couple times to make sure I'm not just looking at it funny, but now it seems your magnets are passing the turns horizontally instead of cutting the turns across them. Am I looking at it wrong?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 04:08:03 AM
I think your rotor change completely changed your entire approach. I'll watch a couple times to make sure I'm not just looking at it funny, but now it seems your magnets are passing the turns horizontally instead of cutting the turns across them. Am I looking at it wrong?

Yep- I noticed that too.  When I brought it up to center that happened.  but it produced a good degree more power like that.  Because the rotor is going in a circumference, some flux is being cut still.  I think the jump is because in the middle I can hit both sides of the coil with 2 magnets
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 04:08:56 AM
And yes it can get confusing. I suggest you completely forget about Lenz law right now. It is screwing you up. It's best to go back to the basics here. Look up right hand rule.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 04:17:26 AM
Sorry but I have to keep going with this.

There is no need to flip the magnet.  Take a big bar magnet and only dip 1 pole in the coil and reciprocate.  One completely helps, one completely hurts.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 04:41:31 AM
Exactly, no need to flip the magnets, because you are flipping the coil. Consider the direction the wire is running from the magnets point of view.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 04:47:49 AM
The magnetic field rotates around the wire. It is the direction of rotation that you are changing. Picture this... take a bolt, and put a washer on it. Balance the bolt horizontal with the washer in the middle vertically. Push down on the side of the washer towards you and the washer rotates doward and away. Now do the same on the other side. Push downward away from you and the washer rotates downward and toward you. You pushed down the same on both sides but the washer rotated opposite. The washer simulates a cross section of a strand of wire. Same principle. The magnetic field will rotate depending on the circumstances. The direction the current flows will show you the direction the magnetic field will rotate and vice versa. Hence, the right hand rule. The picture added is just to show you how what you are doing may seem the same motion to you, but is perceived differently by the strand of wire.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 05:22:57 AM
Got it.  I had to bench test to understand. I powered a coil and used a magnet to feel.  Inside coil it behaves opposite than it does outside with the same current direction.  Thank you again for working with me to get it.

Regarding the long coil- the peak of the current is when the magnets are dead center of the vertical coil. And that happens to be the dead spot of the coil in regards to force being applied to the magnets.   When the coil is outputting peak voltage, the magnets are as far from the poles as possible. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 04, 2022, 05:30:15 AM
That goes in line woth the changing inductance of the coil when magnets are away and against it. Another hard concept to explain right out the gate. But that is an expected result.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 04, 2022, 07:26:45 PM
So I am planning to wind my new coils. I want to make sure I get the most out of them so I have another question..

This might be kind of hard to explain but I'll try. Say my rotor was 5 inches in length and I could get 500 turns of wire within that 5 inches.

Coil 1 has 1500 turns and measures 15 inches. The rotor only passes the center 500 turns, and the other 500 turns on each end get no action from the magnet..

Coil 2 is exactly 5 in to match the rotor. And has exactly 500 turns. The entire coil is passed by the rotor..

Both coils are being exposed to the same 5 inches of the rotor. And both coils have exactly 500 turns which are influenced by the rotor..

Will both coils produce the same output?

I understand the idea that it will waste wire. But will it also bring the strongest point of magnetism away from the rotor?

Does the weakest point of coil magnetism in the center become weaker as the pole spread apart?

Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 05, 2022, 12:36:51 AM
I have to question your layout of magnets passing the coil. I am not sure how you have it aligned. It seems like your new rotor is moving magnets parallel to the turns and not across the turns. This could be why you are not seeing any current flow and very little effect except for voltage. I could be wrong because I can't really tell how you have it laid out. Do you have any still shots that show wire wind direction and the direction the magnets move?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 01:53:40 AM
I have to question your layout of magnets passing the coil. I am not sure how you have it aligned. It seems like your new rotor is moving magnets parallel to the turns and not across the turns. This could be why you are not seeing any current flow and very little effect except for voltage. I could be wrong because I can't really tell how you have it laid out. Do you have any still shots that show wire wind direction and the direction the magnets move?

I have several rotors I am playing with. The last one that I showed that produced the most volts was like this image.  The magnets never pass the top or bottom of the coil, so they are cutting the flux in the parts that count. But in an arcing motion as they pass the peak moments of production.  It's a weird alignment but I can make it with 4 magnet penetration at 1 time in this way. I can wind a coil with a hole going through for the shaft and position a rotor on either side.

 I am just contemplating if making the coil extra long would produce the same energy with exerting less drag, since the poles will be further away.  And if so- I could even bulk it up in the middle where the rotor passes and let the poles be thinner. 

I was examining my bar magnets with the poles on each end closely. The Poles are ultra strong. As I am almost in the middle- practically all strength is lost before the change-over.  And I think that very spot on the coil is the peak production zone. I am thinking maybe keeping my rotating magnets right in that goldilox zone where production is highest and drag force is at a minimum.  Then extend those poles out to make it even better.

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 02:00:52 AM
I also tried this way which produced 33% less volts

Edit-  It probably produced more like 50% less volts if you take into consideration the gap differences.  The dead center way had a much larger gap because I have a bolt and rod stud in the way
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 05, 2022, 02:53:29 AM
Ok, that's what I thought. I'm not saying you have them wrong, because I am not sure what effect you are testing and it could be exactly what you are wanting to try. But, your energy is generated when the magnet runs perpendicular with the turns. You are running mostly in line with them. Remember running a magnet straight up the side goes right across the windings. You are having mostly the effect if you had done that same test bit ran the magnets sideways against the coil instead of up amd down. Did I explain it clear enough to understand? You can get voltage without much Amperage in that configuration typically. Is that what you are wanting?


Edit... maybe it's right. I thought your magnets were centered on the core. The shaft is below the core isn't it? So just one magnet passes across the windings?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 04:17:12 AM
Edit... maybe it's right. I thought your magnets were centered on the core. The shaft is below the core isn't it? So just one magnet passes across the windings?

I tested both. Center and lower.  Center outperformed lower by a Large margin.

That was just a test- not the build. In the center should have just about the same amount of wires crossed perpendicular if I make the coil bigger than the circumference of the rotor path.  It should cut the wires at the prime voltage generation spot and wind down to parallel about when the zero line is approaching and polarity flips.  And center is the only way I can get 4 magnets to pass at once (that I can think of).

I can't think of any good reason not to have the one coil also be the prime mover. If I go that route- no need to extend it so much to the sides- because I want that end polarity juice to rotate the rotors easily. And if Russ is correct- drag is no longer a problem in this config.

I think I am decided. 1 large coil to cover the entire rotor path. Atleast double wound as you suggested. Maybe even triple. Wind around PVC pipe with a hole in the middle for a shaft to go through. 2 rotors (1 on each side). Pipe will have a hollow center so I can experiment sliding a core into each side.

I checked and current only flows 1 way in this configuration from zero point to zero point- and I can make it flow eitherway by changing rotation direction. And if sensor is positioned at zero line- I can make the rotor spin either way without problem.

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 05, 2022, 03:48:01 PM
I also get a similar asymmetrical picture.
Although if you calculate the integral area of the positive and negative EMF, I think it will be symmetrical. I hope you got what I meant...
In general, it is interesting to play with this device. :)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 06:45:55 PM
I have been drawing and bench testing hours on end to try to make current go the same direction as induction as Russ says is possible,  it is VERY difficult. Getting the rotor to rotate in the correct way seems almost impossible if it even is possible.  No matter how hard I try, I can not make North want to attract North.  (LOL)...

The only window I am possibly seeing is boxed in yellow.  Pulse to initiate rotation and collect only at that moment and the rotor "MIGHT" go in the direction we want which matches the current.  The sinewave reaction looks like it will work- and during a bench test powering the coil, I can get a peek of movement the right way only in those 2 spots per pass.  The entire prime collection moments all hurt rotation and I see no way to get rotation to go the way we want without opposing incoming current to induction current direction.

I am not saying it will work, but if it does- capturing window will be small and weak.  Perhaps combining this with Rus's info on harvesting the dielectric capacitance can be used to collect at peak without affecting the rotor and delivering that small burst in the window of possible opportunity.

It's either go for this method or just make a nice long coil and produce as much as I can without bringing the rotor close to the poles to hopefully minimize as much drag as I can.

Decision time
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 07:10:38 PM
A little edit on the above post.  I can only get the window to work on 1 side.  The repel away does not want to cooperate. See what I am saying here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkEsGrn6FOg

Coil / core length shape might be able to be worked to increase the window size and induction amount. I need to make sure I do not ruin the direction of induced current and get that window larger while passing more of the coil in that window.  it's quite a skimpy looking window at the moment.  But a ray of hope (until I am debunked. LOL)

Edit- I am uploading a video showing there is no opposition current within that tiny window. Hang tight- will post it in a few

Edit #2- Here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwHrrJ6Q_-A
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 05, 2022, 07:58:04 PM
I also get a similar asymmetrical picture.
Although if you calculate the integral area of the positive and negative EMF, I think it will be symmetrical. I hope you got what I meant...
In general, it is interesting to play with this device. :)
The rotor you have there, did you cast that in wax, or is it resin? Looks like a nice quick easy rotor build for a specific experiment.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 05, 2022, 08:33:18 PM
penoplex.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2V9rcdeKn9c (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2V9rcdeKn9c)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 05, 2022, 09:12:55 PM
I tested this on an air coil to eliminate core influence possibilities.  I can reproduce the effect with an air coil. Current wave looks all correct- and powering it, I can get movement in the direction current is flowing.

Coil does not have to be as big as I first thought. My rough tests suggest making the coil size the circumference of the rotor is about the sweet spot that will pull it in the hardest and keep the sine wave in perfect shape.

I am able to expand the window substantially by playing with the core poles and bringing the top one down and still preserving the current direction.. But that's for future experimentation.

First I need to wind a coil the right size and see if I can get rotation in the right direction with induced current. I think I can do it.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 06, 2022, 12:12:32 AM
I wound a bifilar coil and started testing.   I'm testing with paralleling the leads now- but I will try series later.  For testing I need some amperage.

 I am liking the action with 1/2 core the best.  With half a core, I can get a good 42-43 degree jolt going in the right direction.  I think I can get this jolt 2 times per rotation, so collecting just under 1/4  (about 86 degrees total) of the rotation cycle. And I can "almost" get the peak.  It seems the coil's inductance is working for me (not against) only in this nice sized window.  At other parts of the rotation, it works against me, so the coil will need to be switched off at those times.

I know I can get it to spin with this, because I made it spin in the right direction hand-timing - -  turning on / off the supply..  With a hall sensor, I can make it cook I'm sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGa1rJ4CNFU

I plan to have 2 of these coils on either side of the rotor, and 2 rotors also.  So we can times this force by about 4

Addition-  Just tried series and it works as good if not better with wayyy  less wattage

I think I am reversing Lenz with this configuration in this 42 degree window



Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 06, 2022, 02:01:29 AM
Yes, I can get the kick 2 times per rotation.  1 time per 1/2 cycle.

What I think is happening-  By extending the core half way down the middle- the middle core has more flux surrounding it and is more powerful than an air core pole.  The air core pole wants to hold it back and attract- but the core above also wants to attract the rotor (because it is inside and the polarity works because it's on the other side of the coils) - and the steel core is more powerful, so it overpowers the bottom pole's holding force and pulls it right through the bottom pole that restricts us.  The more induction we build- the more this action will give back..

For those thinking it's happening because the magnet is attracted to the steel- Here's a video showing this is not the case. Also a step by step showing all..  Including my theory what's happening.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApkQde6Ym8

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 06, 2022, 02:15:01 AM
I assumed you were going to like series better as far as wattage. Have you tried hooking them in series opposite? I assume it will really hinder the performance since the magnetic field would be fighting itself, but this is all a good learning experience. Just curious if something totally out of the ordinary would happen because backwards stuff seems to work differently at times confusing us. Who knows?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 06, 2022, 02:20:58 AM
I assumed you were going to like series better as far as wattage. Have you tried hooking them in series opposite? I assume it will really hinder the performance since the magnetic field would be fighting itself, but this is all a good learning experience. Just curious if something totally out of the ordinary would happen because backwards stuff seems to work differently at times confusing us. Who knows?

Yeah I tried both ways.  One way series pulls .3 amps.  Opposite way pulls .8 amps.  The .3 watts sounds a lot better and works just as good.  Paralleling them all takes like 1.4 amps.

I am printing out a timing wheel now to glue magnets into to trigger hall sensors to collect / pulse in the window.  I chose 40 degrees collection window this first run.. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 06, 2022, 06:21:39 AM
I have been thinking about getting a 3d printer. Do you mind sharing any info if you like yours or would have chosen something else? They are getting pretty reasonable priced now, but I don't know if the cheaper ones are worth it or not.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 06, 2022, 06:45:04 AM
I have been thinking about getting a 3d printer. Do you mind sharing any info if you like yours or would have chosen something else? They are getting pretty reasonable priced now, but I don't know if the cheaper ones are worth it or not.

I got a knockoff of an ender 3.  It's a Longer and it's OK..  The Ender 3 is cheaper than the longer now.  I replaced many parts on it but it's still chuggin away. I design in tinkercad and use cura slicer. Both free.

Regarding my motor-  I got 1 hall sensor hooked up only pulsing once per rotation and I can get up close to 300 RPM in the same direction as the input current..  I have an another entire window to pulse in to get these RPM's up. Tomorrow I will be tweaking.. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 06, 2022, 07:04:21 AM
Hopefully you can keep that current down a bit as well. RPM may be cool, but there is way more to the equation. After all, you can have a 100 rpm motor rip an arm off, and a 30,000 rpm motor you can stop by barely touching! I think tweaked a bit, you can get way more efficient than your adams motor with what you have learned. Keep plugging away!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 06, 2022, 09:21:43 AM

What if you replace your electromagnet with an actuator arm?  The arm would move up and down vertically and its bottom would be glued to the diaphragm of a loudspeaker. 
I have no doubt that it would work. The loudspeaker is the same electromagnet, what's the difference? If a magnet could be moved without using any energy...
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 06, 2022, 04:39:31 PM
I have no doubt that it would work. The loudspeaker is the same electromagnet, what's the difference? If a magnet could be moved without using any energy...
Hi kolbacict, 

Yes, a loudspeaker coil is also an electromagnet but the big difference is that in your V gate setup the electromagnet is influenced by the rotating V gate magnets directly, giving unwanted inductions that the input power should defeat and this process (direct Lenz) normally gives under 100% efficiency or COP < 1.   

If you remove the input coil from the rotor magnets to avoid direct induction, chances are much better to reduce Lenz effect. If you wish, read through the links to the pages I gave earlier.

See this fantastic double spiral motor assembly, built by member Honk here:   

https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267139/#msg267139 (https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267139/#msg267139)     

and read his story on the failure first here:   

https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267144/#msg267144 (https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267144/#msg267144)     and then here   

https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267796/#msg267796 (https://overunity.com/3456/f-b-d-i-s-s-m-flux-boosted-dual-induction-split-spiral-motor/msg267144/#msg267144)   

Gyula   
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 06, 2022, 11:31:17 PM
Great Progress!!!!

Finally got it tweaked and inducing current the same way as pulsing, I can go 600+ RPM and my Power Supply input is 32 Volts, 0.00 amps!

It's been going 40 minutes now and it stays at 0.00 amps input. I am not saying it is running itself, but I am pretty sure I found my window of opportunity.  More copper and magnets and who knows!  I have a good feeling about it..

See it in action and stabilized at 0.00 amps input.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11vtctId6UY

The trick is a small 2" piece of rebar floating in the lower half off the ground by about 2".  It sucks the magnet right past the sticky point creating a nice window to collect / pulse.
Since there is no core on the top- it sails out with little resistance. And of course it is switched to only pulse / collect in the window.



Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 07, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Your power supply will say 0 amps if it is less than 10ma. You would need to hook an amp meter in line with it to know actual power consumption. But either way, it is running on very little wattage. Looking positive.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 12:50:28 AM
Your power supply will say 0 amps if it is less than 10ma. You would need to hook an amp meter in line with it to know actual power consumption. But either way, it is running on very little wattage. Looking positive.

Yeah- once I am all dialed in- I will check it.. I am not saying it can run itself.  :-X

Now 1340 RPM-  More than double!   Still 0.00 Amps... (registering on PS)

Last video I only had 1 hall sensor pulsing once per rotation.  Now I am pulsing twice- once in each window per rotation..  Those are my only windows to get it to rotate in this direction.  So if it's gonna get any better- needs more copper / magnet power..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQwYI9eNLGY
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 07, 2022, 03:45:41 AM
It looks like you are running that air core in that last video. I was watching a zero force motor test from tinman that showed putting the core inside it really hurt the performance. Are you seeing the same thing with this setup? Just curious. Also, is your rpm triggering only once per rotation or is it catching both magnets and it's actually half the speed shown? Looking good, just gaining info on your setup.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 04:25:45 AM
It looks like you are running that air core in that last video. I was watching a zero force motor test from tinman that showed putting the core inside it really hurt the performance. Are you seeing the same thing with this setup? It is the sideways coil configuration. Just curious. Also, is your rpm triggering only once per rotation or is it catching both magnets and it's actually half the speed shown? Looking good, just gaining info on your setup.

It's happening because of a 2" piece of rebar sits in the coil about 1" from the bottom.  I have an air gap at the bottom of the core- then the 2" stub of rebar that comes up under 1/2 way the coil. Then about 40-50% of the core above that is air. About 60% of the core is air.

It's working on attraction pulses.  The rebar is in a perfect position to attract the incoming magnet (where it always gets stuck at the pole) and sends the rotor right past the sticky spot and out the top..  No stick coming in or going out really.  And the rebar stub makes it possible to go the way it never want's to go- with current.. 

If I use a full core, I can get it going as fast the other direction, but using 15X as much input power- because then it's going against current like always.. My last post used 2 trigger spots, 1 each magnet. My RPM meter was catching 1 magnet- it only works on 1 polarity. Before I read 1300+, right now I got 1050 RPM.  I been playing with the timing / sensors the last hour seeing how efficient I can get it.  I can get it going quicker, but then I am pulsing outside my window and the amps creep up a bit.  I only want to pulse in the window to keep those amps below 0.00

If the wife lets me, tomorrow I plan to wind another bifilar coil for the other side.  And get a better collection circuit hooked up so I know it's working. 

One thing I said, but I'll say again.  Getting the rotor to spin with current flow is was difficult.  It doesn't want to go in that direction.  But that little core stub floating in there solved that..

Here is a video of the whole motor setup from top to bottom.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRG9quRn4A
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 07, 2022, 09:15:31 AM
You have probably already researched a bit into it, but I keep bringing up the zero force motor. There are similarities for sure. I am not saying there is no back emf for sure yet of course as bedini claims, but I do see some key similarities here. I'm just posting this in case you have not seen it as similar designs you may follow to get ideas of small things to try with yours. The current draw sure looks way better in this video than many others I have seen with the zero force motor design, and it pretty much matches what you are seeing in your setup. I note this because something is different with the tiny current yours and bedinis draws compared to many others. There is clearly a subtle difference that makes this happen and you seem to be hitting on it as well.
https://youtu.be/w-GZerEwObo (https://youtu.be/w-GZerEwObo)
https://youtu.be/fZVwMvFxPMg
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: Tarsier_79 on May 07, 2022, 11:05:08 AM
Gday F

I haven't read back all through the thread. Can you post the drive circuit? I may be able to suggest a way to measure the current more accurately if you like.

Also, have you thought of using an interrupted LED timing circuit? It is more accurate and more controllable, you can adjust both the timing and the length of the pulse.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 01:35:52 PM
...

I retract some of my statements.  I am NOT rotating with current. I am going against it still.  The piece of core is just adding to the already present forces that pull the rotor through.

Russ's statements would be correct- that there would be no drag "IF" you could make your rotor rotate the way it resists. But that means no Lenz. And that "IF" is the killer... 

I don't think this can go overunity UNLESS I get it rotating the other way. 

Good learning process! 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 07, 2022, 02:35:28 PM
But I still believe that the conclusions of the coil moving past the permanent magnet better close and disclose by contacts or relay. This does not require us to spend any energy and power sources.
True, in this case, the interaction forces will be much weaker than in the case of passing current through the coil. That's what pushes us away from this method...
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 03:17:29 PM
But I still believe that the conclusions of the coil moving past the permanent magnet better close and disclose by contacts or relay. This does not require us to spend any energy and power sources.
True, in this case, the interaction forces will be much weaker than in the case of passing current through the coil. That's what pushes us away from this method...

Yes but I think we can never generate extra power this way.  It works to produce power efficiently with the prime mover- but we can never extract the power.  We get an ultra efficient motor that we can not tap for power.  The power we generate from the magnet passing the coil will be going opposite.  If we manage to get it to exactly balance and run with no input- as soon as you pull power, the rotor will slow and stop.  It can not cross the zero line this way and give more out than in. Because as soon as the coil's flux from the passing magnet is equal to input and passes the zero line to negative territory, the passing magnets flux over-powers the direction of flux that's making it move.

The rotor needs to spin in the same direction as current.  I can make it do it- but barely..  I'm not even going to experiment going the wrong way- because I am not looking for an efficient motor that draws minimal power. 

edit-  my original configuration works the same way as current.  It's awkward with the big rod sticking out the top- , but I can get 62 degrees of a pulse window where the pulse helps me to a degree.  My timing magnets can only use about 1/2 that window and I can get it spinning all correct (barely)..  I am next going to make a timing wheel to capture the whole window.  And when I make the next coil- I can have 2 windows (I think)..
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 04:23:54 PM
This is an example of spinning correctly--  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHeX6ar-22U

I am able to do even quicker using magnets on top of the rod.  This is the direction I will be going
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 07, 2022, 05:29:17 PM
Let's not get discouraged if your device doesn't do the impossible. Don't forget where you started. Yes it may not be doing exactly as you had hoped. But you went from a motor than runs on 60 watts to one that runs over half as good for less than 1 watt. That's a massive step in the right direction. Also, don't be afraid to take a small win when you get one in this field. It may not be your goal, but who says the motor side has to generate the electrical energy back to make it ou? Sometimes hooking a small generator to a super efficient motor may be exactly the answer you need. 2 separate halves, working in unisom, could give you what you seek. I'm only throwing that out there because I see a partial win here and the last video seems to be an attitude change as if you are disappointed. Just don't forget what you have accomplished and learned on the way! After all, the inventor of the post it notes was actually trying to make the world's strongest super glue. But I think he ended up doing okay..
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 07, 2022, 06:19:07 PM
Let's not get discouraged if your device doesn't do the impossible. Don't forget where you started. Yes it may not be doing exactly as you had hoped. But you went from a motor than runs on 60 watts to one that runs over half as good for less than 1 watt. That's a massive step in the right direction. Also, don't be afraid to take a small win when you get one in this field. It may not be your goal, but who says the motor side has to generate the electrical energy back to make it ou? Sometimes hooking a small generator to a super efficient motor may be exactly the answer you need. 2 separate halves, working in unisom, could give you what you seek. I'm only throwing that out there because I see a partial win here and the last video seems to be an attitude change as if you are disappointed. Just don't forget what you have accomplished and learned on the way! After all, the inventor of the post it notes was actually trying to make the world's strongest super glue. But I think he ended up doing okay..

I am actually excited it's rotating in the right direction at all.  I think I know how to do it.  I been bench testing and all this add's up.

1. Core polarity does not change if you raise or lower the core.  The wire is still twisting around the core the same direction if the core is fully through or only partially through. You can totally have the NORTH of the core on the South side of the coil..  How this affects electric generation is to be seen yet.

2. The core gets more flux inside than an air coil.  The core over-powers the air core side. 

3. Raising the core is essential for 2 reasons.  to attract the magnet past the the stick point on the way in- and to get that other end of the magnetized core as far away from the rotor as possible so it does not hinder the exit.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 07, 2022, 08:53:33 PM
Well, if the motor will overcome its own frictional resistance, this will already be a big victory. :)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 08, 2022, 01:47:30 AM
While I stew on all this- I will take some time to investigate my previous experience- why the motor sped up when I loaded the generator coil. I looked closer at the setup when it was doing that..  I noticed the rotor was not even close to the middle of the coil.  It was way down..  Past the center line.

So I powered the coil and hand tested to see the reactions.  When the rotor magnet is in line with the bottom of the core- the coil kicks the rotor out hard. and it has like barely any resistance coming in because the top pole is so far away.

There might be something to this-  The alignment of where the magnet passes the coil skews how the coil's poles affect the rotor.  You certainly have 1 pole affecting the rotor more than the other. 

I am going to check into this more soon
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 08, 2022, 06:13:51 AM
I put the other rotor back on, found which way everything has to be to work the motor with repel the same direction as current. And it's looking much better.  I can get some RPM's now going the right way. I will have to try this repel configuration with the dog-bone rotor later, see which one gives more RPM.

Here is the video demonstrating how it works-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk8PZbF0hcE

And here is it spinning with only pulsing 1 side-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEnCH2aFeU

When I hooked it up pulsing both sides, it went much better and quicker.  Then my last H-bridge gave up the ghost because of a difference in potential between grounds. I did not get a video of pulsing both sides this round.

I got more h-bridges ordered but my weekend is over and I am out as of now.   More to come soon!

Oh- and attached is what the sinewave looks like with the core like this
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 08, 2022, 09:48:36 AM
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 08, 2022, 12:29:18 PM
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??

This way it actually repels away at the lower half now and works much better this way.   Like a 1/4 both with 3 nuts at the end? May still work and is worth trying.  It won't have as much core meat on the way in to attract to- and perhaps get a bigger repel.  I will try tonight.  Also worth trying is that floating stub again in this mode.  Might give me a little attract / repel action right where I want it and not affect the incoming at all.  Much to experiment with.

Another option to increase RPM which I half tested would be using 2 same polarity magnets in the rotor. Then bend the metal core out away from the rotor and stick a big NEO magnet on the top end of the core.  That makes my repel pole in the coil stronger.  But it will only work for same pole rotor because I would need to flip the magnet every 1/2 turn if the rotor alternated.  Maybe just even putting a magnet down there in the core.  So much to test!

If this motor does work- I'd imagine it would only work till core saturation.  Because it is relying on the core's magnetism.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 09, 2022, 05:14:43 PM

You have probably already researched a bit into it, but I keep bringing up the zero force motor. There are similarities for sure. I am not saying there is no back emf for sure yet of course as bedini claims, but I do see some key similarities here. I'm just posting this in case you have not seen it as similar designs you may follow to get ideas of small things to try with yours. The current draw sure looks way better in this video than many others I have seen with the zero force motor design, and it pretty much matches what you are seeing in your setup. I note this because something is different with the tiny current yours and bedinis draws compared to many others. There is clearly a subtle difference that makes this happen and you seem to be hitting on it as well.
.......
 

Regarding the no backemf claim for the zero force motor (ZFM), you can notice the induced backemf in the same video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc) John B. himself made on it,  see the two snapshots I attached. In this simplest ZFM, the magnets move and induce voltage in the coil from sideway like Naudin showed in the right hand side coil positioning here http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif (http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif)   
The induced voltage (I indicated it by the arrow) in John's coil was around 2.5 to 3 V peak with no core (scope setting was 5V/DIV in that snapshot) and was around 5 to 6 V peak with the iron pipe core (scope was already in 10V/DIV).
 
These are low values with respect to the 12-13 V supply voltage and their effect is surely low accordingly, for sure, but backemf was present.  If you ponder on why it was low, IMHO the low induced values were due to the big coil sizes with respect to the moderate sized magnets used and the air gap size between the coil top side and the rotating magnets (see this gap at video time 1:20 - 1:21). The 200 mA current (the analog ampmeter showed) went down to around 20-30 mA (as I estimate it, the 5 Amper FSD meter makes it hard to estimate...).  The iron pipe increased the coil AC inductance hence its inductive reactance, this explains the lower current draw and the increased RPM. 

Regarding the other ZFM setup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4) John showed it as an advanced version built and presented to him by Peter L, you can find all the important details in these posts by Peter as Retep: 

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35942#post35942 (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35942#post35942)

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35947#post35947 (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35947#post35947)

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35958#post35958 (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35958#post35958)

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35975#post35975 (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35975#post35975)

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35984#post35984 (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35984#post35984)

In his closing post on the ZFM:  https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35986#post35986  (https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35986#post35986)  he wrote this: 

"I am not going to go into Operational Theory concerning this motor in this thread, so don't ask. No one's speculations so far are even close.  I will say this. In this machine, Lenz's Law is FULLY OPERATIONAL, as is Ohm's Law,  Kirchhoff's Law,  Faraday's Law of Induction,  and  Newton's Third Law of Motion.  Anyone who says different does not know how the machine works!" 

Unfortunately, there have been no any performance measurements shown on this advanced ZFM setup, to date. Member Yaro's tests with his own replications I referred to earlier yielded around 51 % measured efficiency.

Gyula
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 09, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
Yes I agree. It is a super efficient motor, but if it rotates against current like all the examples, all the laws still apply .  There is much experimenting to do here, but that's for a later date.

I want to bring my topic back to the original idea which it was created for. Bench testing and watching the scope is suggesting something pretty amazing regarding my original layout. It seems it needed a little tweaking, but I think it looks very promising. I will be posting more on it soon
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 01:39:29 AM
Please review before I build this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qQh_nsBg8
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 01:01:16 PM

Would like to understand your term "no polarity flip"   because the induced voltage waveform changes polarity from negative to positive as the SN magnet comes from the left hand side coil edge to the center of the coil and beyond.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 01:25:37 PM
Would like to understand your term "no polarity flip"   because the induced voltage waveform changes polarity from negative to positive as the SN magnet comes from the left hand side coil edge to the center of the coil and beyond.

With a single magnet passing over the entire coil- you get 1 complete sinewave.  half is 1 polarity- half is the other polarity.
Sliding 1 magnet 1/2 the coil without crossing center gives 1 polarity.

Sliding 2 magnets over a coil gives 1 polarity if you do not cross the edges of the coil in or out.

SLiding 2 magnets completely accross gives the same signal as sliding 1 magnet 1/2 way.

"Polarity flip" only happens when the voltage crosses the zero line.  Going up and down on the same side of the zero line is all still one polarity.  Just weaker on either side and stronger in the middle.


The image you posted shows a very slight flip at the very end because I was stopping the magnet.  In non-stopping motion- the wave is completely on 1 side of the line

Russ explains about the zero line and polarity at mark 12:14 of this video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 04:02:43 PM

I watched the video in slow motion and freezed the moment (attached below) when you almost reached the right hand side end of the coil, starting from the left hand side and you started counting the moves.  The induced waveform started in the negative polarity as the trailing S pole of the magnets defined and the moment the 2 magnets crossed the center line of the coil the induced wave also crossed the zero voltage line and went up to the positive polarity.  It is okay that the induced amplitudes are small but zero voltage line crossing definitely happened between the two edges. 

You wrote:   
     "Sliding 2 magnets over a coil gives 1 polarity if you do not cross the edges of the coil in or out." 
Sorry but I have not noticed this in the video. 

I understand and agree with this: "Going up and down on the same side of the zero line is all still one polarity.  Just weaker on either side and stronger in the middle."
but this is not case in my previous and present snaphots where zero line crossings hence the flips of the induced voltage polarity happen.

You wrote: 
     "The image you posted shows a very slight flip at the very end because I was stopping the magnet.  In non-stopping motion- the wave is completely on 1 side of the line"

But when you stopped the 2 magnets, by that moment you already crossed the center line of the coil from left to right, shown in my previous snapshot. And the induced voltage polarity has changed. The induced amplitudes are small indeed but they are small on both the positive and the negative polarity sides below and above and zero voltage line. And in the below snapshot the + and -  amplitudes are quasi equal.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 04:29:26 PM
It is difficult to show when changing directions like reciprocation.  And also very difficult when we're going slow and stopping. So let me post a snap when I pass two magnets over the entire coil.

Two magnets passing entirely over the coil including edges produces that signal.  The only time we get a polarity flip is when the magnets enter and exit the edges of the coil.

The signature is like the exact same as if we pass the coil at the other 90° angle
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 04:49:31 PM
Here's that video. https://youtu.be/t7Eb1lpsvfw
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 04:53:55 PM

Okay, I understand now.  Unfortunately I did not realize earlier that your tests with the two magnets joined as SN (or NS of course) corresponds to the improved  case shown by member partzman here https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg565002/#msg565002 (https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg565002/#msg565002)  Naudin showed the coil at other 90° angle indeed. 

Now you can load the coil by say a 10 or 20 Ohm resistor and somehow check Lenz counter to motion.  A pendulum-like setup where the movement of the bob (that includes the two magnets)  would be confined to the edges of the coil and count the number of swings?  One possibility.
Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 05:18:37 PM
Okay, I understand now.  Unfortunately I did not realize earlier that your tests with the two magnets joined as SN (or NS of course) corresponds to the improved  case shown by member partzman here https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg565002/#msg565002 (https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg565002/#msg565002)  Naudin showed the coil at other 90° angle indeed. 

Now you can load the coil by say a 10 or 20 Ohm resistor and somehow check Lenz counter to motion.  A pendulum-like setup where the movement of the bob (that includes the two magnets)  would be confined to the edges of the coil and count the number of swings?  One possibility.
Thanks for explaining.

Yes, it relates exactly to parts partzmans post.  But the amazing part is, the polarity it sets corresponds to the last magnet to enter. Which means all the force repelling that out, is attracting the one in front which is closer to the center.

And it stays that polarity the entire pass, helping us on both sides of the coil. The only place we have hurtful inductance is crossing the edges and when the leading magnet gets stuck to the center
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 05:27:21 PM
The pendulum idea is good, except that the coil would have to be cut when the leading magnet is aligned with the middle. Because we have attraction in that one spot
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 06:42:48 PM

Perhaps with a normally closed reed switch? which would open at the right moment? would it be enough? 

EDIT:  if you have only a normally open reed switch, and have two  n-channel power mosfets rated for say 100V drain-source breakdown voltage, you could use this circuit I attached. Just swap R1 and the reed, the latter should short circuit the gate-source points at the right moment to switch the conducting mosfets off.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 07:10:16 PM
Perhaps with a normally closed reed switch? which would open at the right moment? would it be enough? 

EDIT:  if you have only a normally open reed switch, and have two  n-channel power mosfets rated for say 100V drain-source breakdown voltage, you could use this circuit I attached. Just swap R1 and the reed, the latter should short circuit the gate-source points at the right moment to switch the conducting mosfets off.

Maybe. The pendulum would have an arcing motion which would bring one magnet closer than the other at different points adding variables.

I might as well just print a rotor that passes the coil top like an axial flux alignment. and use hall sensors to cut the coil.

Increased RPMs and lower input wattage would confirm if using an air coil.

Edit. I won't have much of a problem working with arduinos and Hall sensors.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 08:27:51 PM

Okay, I agree.  Have it your way of course.  Use a pendulum comes member Norman here, also an excellent experimenter.

The two mosfets constitute a bidirectional switch, AC current can go in any direction when they are switched on.  In case of one mosfet the body diode may conduct when a reverse current is present. But you surely know these.  8)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 10, 2022, 08:48:41 PM
Okay, I agree.  Have it your way of course.  Use a pendulum comes member Norman here, also an excellent experimenter.

The two mosfets constitute a bidirectional switch, AC current can go in any direction when they are switched on.  In case of one mosfet the body diode may conduct when a reverse current is present. But you surely know these.  8)

Yes 2 MOSFETs or I got a bag of triacs .  I usually just rectify it first then switch the DC with one MOSFET. Is there any downfall doing that?

I do thank you for taking the time to read and offer advice.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 10, 2022, 08:57:10 PM
Well, if you use a full wave diode bridge to rectify and switch the DC output side with one mosfet, that is ok also for testing.  Downfall: the diodes may introduce unwanted losses when the power level involved is small.   

Triacs are normally slow switches, you need to select for the quicker ones. Solid state relays are also slow.   
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 11, 2022, 01:52:33 AM
Well- it won't work..  I fired up the coil with the power supply and compared motion reaction to exact points of the wave.  And of course, the complex nature of the flux put a monkey wrench in my gears.  The center core hole is not where the strongest pull is.  And the flip I keep referring to on the "edge" is not really the edge. 

The 2 pole magnet will stick to the exact center of the coil wall which it is passing.  The center core is not sucking it in.  And that incoming polarity flip we see is not happening on approach. It happens when the leading magnet enters the coil and only goes the other way right when the 2 poles are centered on the center line of the coil wall.  And the same on the way out.  There is no window with an air core.  Switching the coil has no benefit here.   It is full drag the whole way.

I will be reverting back to experimenting with getting my motor to rotate the same was as the current.  I may revisit this idea again at a later date if new info emerges
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 11, 2022, 02:42:03 AM
Here is a diagram of reactions I saw a almost all points.  I included what I think is happening with single polarity magnet also. I tested by powering a coil and using several magnets in all directions feeling where the forces are in relation to the magnet position.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: kolbacict on May 11, 2022, 09:02:34 AM
Here is a homemade solid state relay circuit from IR's apnotation.
I did it. It turned out badly. I don’t know why, maybe the components are not the same. Then I did it in my own way. It turned out better. :)
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: gyulasun on May 11, 2022, 11:23:10 AM
Here is a diagram of reactions I saw a almost all points.  I included what I think is happening with single polarity magnet also. I tested by powering a coil and using several magnets in all directions feeling where the forces are in relation to the magnet position.
 

Unfortunately, Lenz law hampers our efforts when it is about coil and magnet flux interactions. 
A different approach separates the direct interaction between the coil and the magnet, I referred to such setup for kolbacict here: 

https://overunity.com/19099/floodrods-etheric-generator-research-build/msg566457/#msg566457 (https://overunity.com/19099/floodrods-etheric-generator-research-build/msg566457/#msg566457)  and here:
https://overunity.com/19099/floodrods-etheric-generator-research-build/msg566625/#msg566625 (https://overunity.com/19099/floodrods-etheric-generator-research-build/msg566625/#msg566625)   

Sorry that I draw attention to this without my testing it. The inventor Liberty is a member here and I normally give the benefit of doubt to anyone with reasonable claims till proven otherwise.

I mean this claim from him: 

"It is not necessary to power this motor 100% of the time.  If powered at say 25% of the time, it should run on an average power consumption of 1.5625 watts.  (using DC ohms law)  4 watts out / 2 watts in = 200% efficient."
  from his website https://www.dynamaticmotors.com/47101.html   

Anyway, thank you for all your arduous efforts to do and share your findings. 

Gyula
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 11, 2022, 01:06:20 PM
Thanks! I will be re-reading all you posted on my next off day.

One more configuration is intriguing me.  Magnet reciprocating inside the coil.  One polarity repels me out both sides- one polarity keeps me in on both sides.  And it seems there may be a way to reverse the polarity on which direction I reciprocate without letting the polarity flip on 1 stroke.   Preliminary results suggest it depends how far I reciprocate and where the magnet / coil alignment extends to.  If I reciprocate too far, the polarity flips.

It's looking like the safe-zone is center line of magnet to edge of the coil as of now. 

I will be gathering more info on this.  No claims are being made yet
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 12, 2022, 03:40:02 AM
You've been doing great work. I have been pretty busy this week, but I've been catching up as I can. Thanks again for continuing the efforts and sharing along the way. There are some great talented people watching and adding info as they can. Thank you to everyone, and keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: onepower on May 12, 2022, 05:12:33 AM
This is interesting stuff however the only requirement for a FE device is to invoke more change than is normally present in an equivalent process or device. Motion is energy, more motion equates to more energy.

How does what is presented relate to generating or extracting more energy/motion?.

Regards
AC

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 12, 2022, 07:22:49 PM
This is interesting stuff however the only requirement for a FE device is to invoke more change than is normally present in an equivalent process or device. Motion is energy, more motion equates to more energy.

How does what is presented relate to generating or extracting more energy/motion?.

Regards
AC

That latest configuration will not work.  But I just had a revelation I should have had a long time ago.  And I am sure it's been posted many times..

It seems Flux can be practically free..  And Flux drives our motors.  Connecting our coils directly to a power supply on both sides was such a waste..  The same amount of flux we produce with 25 watts to drive our motors can be had for a fraction of that amount of wattage.

If we hookup a power supply to a battery, we can place the coil between the 2 positive leads.  If the coil is low ohms with nice fat wire (like a 1 ohm coil), we get nice big flux and barely use any wattage producing it.   The majority of the current is being caught by the battery instead of going into the ground.

A diode after the coil is probably a good idea to prevent the battery voltage from going the other way. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 12, 2022, 07:46:04 PM
Yes, that is what I have been working on for many years. There is much info about that online. Both good and bad. It's the same concept as sending energy from 2 batteries in series, into 2 batteries in parallel. It is the same concept of catching the energy in capacitors on the other side. That of course has its own 50% or so loss unrelated to the motor, but the concept is there. I have had great success in increasing run times using this recycling method. In fact it is a huge part of my current experiments. I just haven't shown a lot of it yet. You do NOT capture all the energy into the battery. But it DOES appear to capture a portion you can then reuse. And that motor is not consuming it. You are passing it through it. I did a little dumb video many years ago showing a motor is not consuming it as we have been told. Yes there are losses, but we are actually sending it to ground and neutralizing all of our potential instead doing it the normal way. This way, we do recycle a portion of it.
https://youtu.be/vwp7podu06s (https://youtu.be/vwp7podu06s)

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 12, 2022, 07:58:16 PM
How does what is presented relate to generating or extracting more energy/motion?.

Regards
AC

The less the flux interferes with the rotor- the more motion there will be.   I needed to learn how lenz affects me.  I know the sayings and what the Laws say- but I had to see it all in action for myself to understand why it works like it does..   There is a degree of truth in beating a portion of the lenz resistance by adjusting the core position in certain coil arrangements. How this affects power generation, I am not sure.

Next I want to experiment with what I just posted.  Creating my flux to drive the motor between 2 positive leads- for a fraction of the cost
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 12, 2022, 08:24:03 PM
Yes, that is what I have been working on for many years. There is much info about that online. Both good and bad. It's the same concept as sending energy from 2 batteries in series, into 2 batteries in parallel. It is the same concept of catching the energy in capacitors on the other side. That of course has its own 50% or so loss unrelated to the motor, but the concept is there. I have had great success in increasing run times using this recycling method. In fact it is a huge part of my current experiments. I just haven't shown a lot of it yet. You do NOT capture all the energy into the battery. But it DOES appear to capture a portion you can then reuse. And that motor is not consuming it. You are passing it through it. I did a little dumb video many years ago showing a motor is not consuming it as we have been told. Yes there are losses, but we are actually sending it to ground and neutralizing all of our potential instead doing it the normal way. This way, we do recycle a portion of it.
https://youtu.be/vwp7podu06s (https://youtu.be/vwp7podu06s)

Cool!  Correct me if I am wrong..  Not counting inefficiencies of battery charging, etc..   The amount we capture / lose from power supply through a coil to a battery should be calculatable by ohms of the coil??  Does the math work from power supply to battery?

Example-  PS pushing 12V 1 amp straight to a battery.  So the resistance of the battery is 12 ohms in this example.

Add a 1 ohm coil between, now we have 13 ohms.  at 12V, current is now 0.92308 amps to the battery.  We are using under 1/10th of the 12 watt input power to create the flux.  the other 90+% is going to the battery.

If we connect the 1 ohm coil to the PS directly with 12V, we use the full 12 watts.  But by collecting the output, we use under 1.2 watts to create the same amount of flux?

If we are losing more than this, what's the cause? 

Another example-  I am charging a car battery with 100' cables.  Does it take more power to charge the car battery if the 100' charging cable is coiled up rather than straight?

Thanks for any info you can share!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 12, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Yes... and no... this one is hard to explain because it seems it shows something different to me on the bench than you would expect. But exact measuring using batteries is a skill I am lacking in. I just get so many different variances in charges being held over time and stuff. It is so much easier to measure it using capacitors because you can get very accurate measurements that are repeatable. But then you also have normal losses simply from using capacitors. It's frustrating. But here is what I have learned from my bench tests...


A quick answer to your question is that yes, you can get pretty close to figuring your losses in the manner. It should not be true, but i have seen similar on the bench. How you cam test it yourself is just like the simple test I did in that old video. When I do them, adding just a resistor between them, still does not lose extra energy. Even using a high resistance. What I see is simply a slower transfer of the energy. Now, there is an argument that if you release the energy way slower, you did lose that work you could have gotten done by pushing all the current faster. But when measuring the amount of energy that actually transfers and gets caught in the other caps, there is very minimal loss. If I had to explain it, using this method to run a motor, the higher the resistance the slower the energy transfers, the less torque the motor gives. That is my assumption. You basically trade torque for longer run time. Which isn't really a waste of energy, it's simply changing how it's used. I also see differences in how much energy is able to transfer due to higher inductance in the circuit, and to counter emf. In my experents, back emf seems to do the same thing as added resistance. It just slows down the energy transfer but it still transfers. I have a lot of theories and tests I've done. It is essential to my motor builds I just haven't gotten a motor efficient enough to move to begin testing woth this powering design. I believe my new motor I am building right now is a perfect candidate and I will be posting a lot about it. New threads coming. Just been waiting on parts.


BTW... You have been following Russ's videos. He 100% understands all this concept because I have been seeing his videos he had made discussing it. Look into his videos posted to grasp the concept better if you need. He has great way of explaining things. His video 4 and 5 will get you looking at things the correct way... here is his part 4. It's a little long, but you already know what your in for when watching his videos... lol
https://youtu.be/6YTRzTniKc8 (https://youtu.be/6YTRzTniKc8)


I will start a thread for this stuff. I don't want to highjack your thread with it to much.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 12, 2022, 09:21:42 PM
Yes... and no... this one is hard to explain because it seems it shows something different to me on the bench than you would expect. But exact measuring using batteries is a skill I am lacking in. I just get so many different variances in charges being held over time and stuff. It is so much easier to measure it using capacitors because you can get very accurate measurements that are repeatable. But then you also have normal losses simply from using capacitors. It's frustrating. But here is what I have learned from my bench tests...


A quick answer to your question is that yes, you can get pretty close to figuring your losses in the manner. It should not be true, but i have seen similar on the bench. How you cam test it yourself is just like the simple test I did in that old video. When I do them, adding just a resistor between them, still does not lose extra energy. Even using a high resistance. What I see is simply a slower transfer of the energy. Now, there is an argument that if you release the energy way slower, you did lose that work you could have gotten done by pushing all the current faster. But when measuring the amount of energy that actually transfers and gets caught in the other caps, there is very minimal loss. If I had to explain it, using this method to run a motor, the higher the resistance the slower the energy transfers, the less torque the motor gives. That is my assumption. You basically trade torque for longer run time. Which isn't really a waste of energy, it's simply changing how it's used. I also see differences in how much energy is able to transfer due to higher inductance in the circuit, and to counter emf. In my experents, back emf seems to do the same thing as added resistance. It just slows down the energy transfer but it still transfers. I have a lot of theories and tests I've done. It is essential to my motor builds I just haven't gotten a motor efficient enough to move to begin testing woth this powering design. I believe my new motor I am building right now is a perfect candidate and I will be posting a lot about it. New threads coming. Just been waiting on parts.


BTW... You have been following Russ's videos. He 100% understands all this concept because I have been seeing his videos he had made discussing it. Look into his videos posted to grasp the concept better if you need. He has great way of explaining things. His video 4 and 5 will get you looking at things the correct way... here is his part 4. It's a little long, but you already know what your in for when watching his videos... lol
https://youtu.be/6YTRzTniKc8 (https://youtu.be/6YTRzTniKc8)

Will do...  I am testing already.  It becomes quickly obvious I want my coil resistance to match the battery resistance to maximize flux and get most efficiency.

Example-  if my coil reaches 5 amps at 2 volts (which it does)  but I have to put out 13 volts 2 amps to charge my battery,  my coil is only getting 2 amps through it and only needs under 1 volt to make it pull 2 amps.  So I am sending 11 unneeded volts, which hurts my wattage for no additional flux.  Not really wasting because my battery is charging- but defeating the purpose.

But if my coil and battery had the same ohm value- I'd be maximizing my flux to watt ratio. It appears in best case scenario, you can almost double your flux for the same input price..

Yes I know there are losses I am not including and it may not work out like I am insinuating.   Just thinking out loud how this should work so when I setup my next motor I have a plan
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 12, 2022, 09:49:12 PM
You are doing exactly as needed. This is one you really do need to learn on the bench. It is also one of the reasons I am experimenting with higher resistance coils of thinner wire to get more turns In a smaller space. Stronger field, less current, but higher voltage. It has seemed to me that the batteries capture more efficiently at lower current charge. At least that's what seems to be happening for me and I am testing. So I am trying to match a motor with coils that both use low current AND get strong magnetic flux. It's a work in progress anyway.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 13, 2022, 12:29:14 AM
I have about 10 coils like the ones shown.  To start, I plan to run alternating polarities through 5 of them- then dump into a battery.
Take 5 more of the coils and clamp them to the 5 that are being pulsed with alternating polarities.
Rectify and store the output.  Then take measurements.

I will run the voltage just above the battery nominal voltage, so the battery will take a charge. And tinker with pulse rates via an ardiuno. 

I have yet to check out solid-state stuff. This will be good learning for me.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 13, 2022, 03:09:36 AM
Consider this though. If the battery is 12v, and you run 14v from the power supply, the load only sees the difference. So it would only see 2v. Keep that in mind. Your experent is a good start. I have found some success pulsing through a transformer and using the secondary to run full size led bulbs. I currently use that to light a couple rooms in my house and I keep switching battery packs. The packs run down but I feel they last way longer and these are 8 watt bulbs I run off of about 1 watt at full brightness. There are batter ways, like joule thief, but I have been playing with this just for fun. What I did find though, if I run it through a motor, I get better efficiency. It seems that if I use the generated magnetic field for work, i lose less energy. If I collapse the field to charge something or use it on the opposite side of a transformer, it isn't as efficient. Just my experience anyway. Also, running loads of other than wire in line loses more energy as well. For instance an incandescent bulb does burn some of the energy into heat and light. But it does still charge the battery, so I'm assuming its still better than sending it to ground.


Edit... BTW I did go ahead and make a thread you can post anything you want in with these concepts without having to run to far off topic here.
https://overunity.com/19112/work-done-while-recycling-the-energy/msg566889/#new
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 15, 2022, 03:30:07 AM
I got a kinda newish plan that relates to my original idea of this thread.

I noticed this several times and been trying to harness it with rotation, but it's difficult because the small window needs precise timing.  And within the window, there is a "hot zone" which it would be best to focus all the energy and motion within.  Short stroke reciprocation is my best bet here.

I can get generated current to flow the direction of input.  And I am like 99% sure of this.  Lenz is reversed in this 1 small spot.

I can easily feel it when powering the coil also.  In the exact spot where the current goes the right way- the flux helps the motion of the magnet in that exact window.  It actually goes that way the remainder of the coil, but the power drop-off is not worth passing those parts of the coil.

I need to setup a reciprocator and hit only this small section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC65NQoo-Xg

I am uploading another video to show it in action
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 15, 2022, 04:11:48 AM
Edited... I just understood what you were doing. My comments weren't relevant.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 15, 2022, 04:24:42 AM
I want to use half core and only focus in the cherry spot..

I just tested Powering the coil and passing the magnet.

Input goes UP when passing the first side of the coil.. 

When I hit my cherry-spot  INPUT GOES DOWN when passing that half.

Exactly the confirmation I needed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu1sH8400dw


NOTE-  But sure- I'd like to see the videos you mention.  More info the better!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 15, 2022, 04:32:38 AM
Seeing your new video. When you remove the core on the left, does the left side still draw more current when you pass the magnet, or does it go down as well without the core. I only ask because I'm trying to understand core effect a bit better. You have a higher inductance on the left side with half core. Just trying to visualize what's going on. Also, same exact setup, does current still drop if you go right to left on right hand side. The coreless side, moving magnet towards the center. Current still drop?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 15, 2022, 04:47:02 AM
I'm trying to think this through. I may be thinking backwards, but it seems that if successful at Lenz induced current running in same direction as supplied current, wouldn't the current supplied go up, not down? Are you maybe working on the wrong side of the equation? I understand everything is backwards and confusing and I am probably wrong here, but it's bugging me.
The reason I say this, is with a motor, the current actually increases under load because the motor is turning slower and the back emf of Lenz actually decreases. As the motor turns faster, the induced magnetic field of Lenz increases restricting the current flow. The Lenz law is actually causing the motor to draw less current. That is why when you load a lenzless motor the current would not change.

Am I backwards here? It's actually pretty important to understand to find the desired results. Maybe someone can add some thoughts to this part?


Edit.... This could still all be correct. Maybe if Lenz current runs in the same direction, it may do both things, increase the ability of current to flow that TYPICALLY draws more from source, but at the same time, fills that void with its own current??? Maybe? So possibly I am thinking correct on how it works, but forgetting that the input current increase is now replaced by the induced Lenz current??
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 15, 2022, 04:50:56 AM
Glad you recommended testing that.

OK I did 2 tests..

I can not get a reading with no core- as it's hard to build inductance that way.. 

Test 1-  I positioned a coil the traditional way and powered it.  I had the coil sucking me in when I try to escape..  (the way I think Lenz works)..  And when I escape- the input goes UP.

Test 2-  I positioned the long coil on the side like the videos.  Core going all the way through.  Going the way it doesn't want to go makes the input go UP.  Going the way it DOES want to go makes the input current go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HNIwjZAErM
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 15, 2022, 04:55:25 AM
Thanks for trying some different stuff. One step over to understanding it all.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 15, 2022, 06:06:09 AM
I am thinking if one makes a zero force motor and it spins the direction it wants to go--, it's all good.  That could explain the zero force motors using like no amperage. And possibly my generator speeding up.

Same dynamics as passing a magnet the conventional way, except no polarity flip.

On the magnet approach, the coil is trying to repel the magnet from getting into the center hole of the coil.  Just like a conventional arrangement.
On the magnet exit- the coil is trying to suck the escaping magnet into the center hole-  Just like a conventional arrangement.

But since it's passing the coils side- after your past the coil poles, it zooms the magnet in the direction of the spin because it's trying to bring the magnet into the exit's side center hole.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 15, 2022, 07:11:51 AM
You are doing so much work in that direction, you just might have to take the step of making a zero force to test your thoughts. I know I have been thinking of making one myself, just simply because I have not played with that aspect of things yet. But, I've seen some where using a metal core has really hurt the performance. So  not sire if you onto the exact same thing or just something very similar.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 16, 2022, 04:54:19 AM
I tinkered with the motor on and off throughout the day.  I can get it going pretty good (about 500 RPM estimate) on about 1 watt input power. But I have no answers yet.  Moving the core has HUGE effects. And the length of the core has big effects also.  If the core extends too far past the coil ends, the motor will barely move because the poles are too far away.  Shortening the core makes it speed up. 

When I got the generator coil to speed up the rotor, I was using a different rotor with a different configuration on how the magnets pass the coil.  I will have to re-visit that setup and try to get it spinning with little amp draw like now- then see if I can recreate the speed-up effect. 

One thing is for certain. Every small change matters a lot.  if something changes by 1/4" it can throw off the whole thing.

Edit- one last detail with the setup I used today.  If the timing is set at the zero line where polarity flips, I can get the rotor spinning either way with no problem without adjusting the timing.  That alone is very telling about the forces of the flux in this configuration.. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 16, 2022, 11:35:39 PM
Nope- I was wrong with my image 2 posts ago.  On a downward stroke, the starting side is attracting you and the finish side is repelling.  But I noticed something else quite interesting..

Put a long core through a coil..  Now run a magnet along the core outside the coil..  The polarity of the core is the same as the coil on each stroke, but the flux is on both sides of your magnet the whole time.  Nothing really  to resist you..  If the end of the core is a little stronger like I suspect, then the end of the core rocks it in your favor.

Now take this and put 2 magnets on each side of the core so we have 4 magnets to 1 coil.  Probably get alot more out than running 1 magnet over the coil.  I can think of dozens of arrangements of this fashion.

Main point it, use as many magnets needed to get lots of flux moving around in the core-  and keep the magnets moving in the direction of the core only while keeping the magnets over the core the whole time.  If you cross the core or go over an edge, it resists you coming back in / out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guZUuYqO57U
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 17, 2022, 04:29:34 AM
I took a microwave transformer that I opened and tested this in another arrangement.  The core is nice and big so it covers the whole magnet.  Reciprocating it left and right produces very nice voltage.  When I powered the coil- the whole core was uniform in magnetism. The magnet is completely covered by one pole of the coil..  Any polarity the coil is spitting out is neutralized by the magnet because you have both magnets polarities inside 1 pole of the coil uniformly.

It needs a core to work tho.  Without a core the center is not uniform in magnetism.  The inner walls are dominant with no core.  But with a metal core-  the whole center core becomes uniform in magnetism with the inside edges of the center of the coil. And if you can fit your magnet inside the cores perimeter and have room for movement, your golden.

Not sure about eddy currents or other angles yet.  But a transformer has laminated iron core, so hopefully it's not too much of a problem.  I might be missing something- but I can't see how lenz can touch us in this position

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 18, 2022, 03:55:26 AM
I tested this over and over and over again.  Dozens of times.  And I am sure this configuration totally reverses Lenz to work for you. It makes current flow not in opposition to input but in your favor.  I narrowed down the most powerful alignment that produces the most inductance and AC..

It may work with rotation, but you have a lot to fight and need to pass several zones that hurt you.  Exact switching is a must and the margin for success gets small.  You can make the "hot zone" larger but in doing so, you lose AC intensity.  But short-stroke reciprocation should keep my magnet in the peak zone the whole time with no need to switch anything.

Insert a core in a coil, but do not go to the end.  The area that has no core is your "hot zone"..  You can make the zone larger by pulling the core back more, but your AC production goes down.  You have from the end of the core to the end of the coil to work in.

Any motion over the core works against you exact same as usual.  But as soon as you pass the end of the core (and are still over the coil)  the coil acts as if you past the edge of the coil and flux works opposite till the end of the coil.  Inducing current in that zone should pull your magnet in the direction you want.

I am going to build the reciprocator.  Not sure if I can build enough power in this configuration to totally succeed, but out of all my theories and investigations- this is the one that eats the cake.  I will update when it's built
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 19, 2022, 05:23:33 AM
The last design seems to have an issue.  It is correct, as the end of the coil goes in the direction I want, but the end of the core hinders motion.  I have 2 competing same polarities on each side of me, and the stronger one is the core behind me. Both are sucking me in- and the core beats the coil pole.  So no good!

But I found another one that has caught my interest.  In the image below, once both poles are within the coil, polarity of the coil reacts upon the leading polarity magnet.  (opposite what it does when going over the top of the coil).  From initial observances, it seems like a great line-up.  Non-scientific guestimates from what I've seen, I'd say that lineup produces about 3/4 of the power that one pole does in the same orientation.  The middle is the dead zone.

I am not really concerned with power production, as I can add magnets as needed.  I have been wrong many times already, so I remain cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 20, 2022, 12:36:11 AM
The last position generates no power if the magnet is level.  No Good!

But I revisited the idea we discussed earlier in this thread.  And my tests are showing the magnet wants to move in the correct direction on each stroke.
Remember Partzman's sine wave.  And the magnet polarity closest to an edge dictates which direction current flows in the coil in this position.

My last tests were with no core and it didn't look probable.  But when i added a core- everything changed.  The magnet no longer stick between the coil wall.  The leading magnet is attracted all the way over the coil to the core.

Apparently a magnets desire to attract to another opposite polarity over-powers the repulsion of like repelling poles every time in it's desire to attract. 

When I test the single polarity movement with two polarity field movement-  The dual field magnet goes the exact opposite way as the trailing single field alone.  But they produce the same direction sinewave.

I have to setup governors to limit movement, because if you go too far to the center- when you flip polarities, the magnet wants to keep going to the other side of the coil (which is undesirable).. I need it to return to the starting position.

The printing is underway to try it

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 20, 2022, 03:33:18 AM
I made the first prototype..  And something weird is happening.  I hope people can chime in and take a peek and give me their opinions.

No sensors yet-  just switching polarities with set timing.  I will be testing sensors soon.

The thing starts reciprocating..  The supply amperage starts off and fiddles around a bit-  then the input amperage Drops and goes to 0.000 amps-  where it stays there for a good 10-20 seconds.  Then amps climb back up for a bit and the cycle continues.  Amps drop back to 0.000 amps and it stays there a while again. Cycle  Repeating and Repeating.

I really need to get this thing working with sensors instead of wood blocks- so it's not wasting energy propelling into a brick wall.  But what the heck is going on here?

HERE-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDApjslrEIc

Note-  I can also hookup an Led as a load and the LED stays lit when amps say 0.000

Thanks!
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 20, 2022, 04:01:31 PM
Can you hook up another amp meter in line to just make sure it isn't just an anomaly on the power supply guage? The reason I ask is that you can hear by the sound of the side slapping as the current changes. It seems to not quite slam the sides as hard when the amps got higher just before the power supply dropped out. But I don't hear any change in sound when the amps drop out. It stands to reason that if it actually drops out that way, we should hear a very obvious sound change. Same issue when the current comes back, not much of a change in sound. But, again, resonance is a funny animal we don't know everything about either. If it is hitting resonance you never know, maybe it really does hit a sweet spot that it runs for nearly nothing. Since you are feeding the current back into it, maybe something great is happening. But the no sound change with that much current change makes me wonder if you are chasing a faulty reading? May be worth eliminating that possibility first.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 20, 2022, 05:03:56 PM
Can you hook up another amp meter in line to just make sure it isn't just an anomaly on the power supply guage? The reason I ask is that you can hear by the sound of the side slapping as the current changes. It seems to not quite slam the sides as hard when the amps got higher just before the power supply dropped out. But I don't hear any change in sound when the amps drop out. It stands to reason that if it actually drops out that way, we should hear a very obvious sound change. Same issue when the current comes back, not much of a change in sound. But, again, resonance is a funny animal we don't know everything about either. If it is hitting resonance you never know, maybe it really does hit a sweet spot that it runs for nearly nothing. Since you are feeding the current back into it, maybe something great is happening. But the no sound change with that much current change makes me wonder if you are chasing a faulty reading? May be worth eliminating that possibility first.

I think it's something with the capacitor built on the H bridge.  I'm assuming if it is pulling more than the capacitor can store, the cap smooths it out amperage is constant.  But if the machine pulls less than the cap can store- it runs off the cap until the cap needs to re-charge.

I came to this conclusion because the cap exploded on me..  Like a firecracker.  The h bridge is still working with no cap now.  And with no cap- I can not reproduce the effect.  I can get the amps to go real low and still get good force, but the .000 miracle is gone now

I can probably verify by putting a cap on the DC input side and see if the effect comes back.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 20, 2022, 05:10:48 PM
Oops...  Well, the exploding capacitor is certainly a big clue.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 20, 2022, 05:38:17 PM
Here's something interesting (i think)...

When I pulse the coils with no moving magnet underneath - I use about .2 amps when holding the voltage steady.

When I put the magnet slider in- it starts to swing hard and amps do not increase when moving the slider. If anything, amps decrease a little.

It seems it's not drawing more under load. Maybe even less
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 20, 2022, 05:47:33 PM
Here's a video of it happening..   Most definitely amperage pull goes down when putting the pulsing coil under load when magnet / coil is arranged this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DNzlSFMEok
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 21, 2022, 12:59:39 AM
How does it react when you use the energy from the secondary? Like maybe dumping it across a battery or something. Just wondering if you used that flux in the core for something, if you can still get that same result? I've always wondered if there is free work to be extracted from an efficient transformer in some way.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 21, 2022, 02:00:22 AM
How does it react when you use the energy from the secondary? Like maybe dumping it across a battery or something. Just wondering if you used that flux in the core for something, if you can still get that same result? I've always wondered if there is free work to be extracted from an efficient transformer in some way.

I have a few updates. 

1.  The 0.000 anomaly was something in the power-supply as you thought.  I was able to repeat the 0.000 amp so I hooked up a 2nd amp meter.  And input was a constant 0.17 amps.  Perhaps it's a capacitor dump in the supply.

2.  I repeated the test with the new amp meter also.  Amps do not increase.  Pulsing the coil with no magnet slider near it uses the same wattage as when the slider is there and table is shaking. 

3. Pulling off the secondary is no good.  The secondary has full lenz law applied. There is a normal 180 phase difference.  So any power you pull from the secondary raises the input accordingly.  I have primary and secondary both in series to get as many turns as I can.

Other notes:

If it's doing what I think it is, the only way i will know for sure is to get my hands on another big coil and rig up a collector-only coil.  I think if I align it right with the proper stroke, I don't think it will have any bog down.

I really don't like reciprocation because any momentum it gains can not be transferred to the next cycle.  All inertia is lost between strokes.  Rotation will be difficult but I might have to go in that direction.

Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 21, 2022, 03:10:29 AM
Seems like a natural progression from results. I figured you would pay for anything you drew off the secondary. But hey, worth a shot. Did it change the reaction of the slide though? I also agree, rotation seems the best way to go, but overall are you doing much different than just a complicated pulse motor? What are your advantages you are looking to exploit here? Also, have you tried holding back the slider while it is running to see if it draws more current? Maybe just freely reacting isnt really enough of a load. Kind of like a motor running at idle. Not that the slamming back and forth isnt a load at all, just sharing general thoughts keeping the mind moving around things a bit.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 21, 2022, 03:11:45 AM
Here is a map-out of the entire pass..  Where we are on the sine wave, and the exact place where the helpful action is..

If you study it, you will see why rotation can get difficult.  The coil wall needs to be thick when compared to the magnet.  The only helpful place is when the blotch wall of the magnet is dead center with the coil wall on the incoming side-  until the magnet's blotch wall is lined up with the entrance edge of the iron core.  All other places are hurtful.  So 1 side of the coil's wall needs to be larger than the magnet.  The whole coil must be several times the size of the magnet.  And even then, timing is still critical.

I am thinking about making a pancake coil-  But I don't want to waste wire without knowing anything about them, how flux works, etc.  Any resources?
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 21, 2022, 03:19:50 AM
Did it change the reaction of the slide though?

Not really because the power supply adjusted to compensate for the extra load.

overall are you doing much different than just a complicated pulse motor?

Trying to narrow in on an exact window of opportunity I see.  Reciprocation and rotation have different dynamics..  I tried reciprocation because I get a window on each side as opposed to one small one with rotation.

What are your advantages you are looking to exploit here?


I attached an image above of the action plan and where the window is..  I can make a video demonstrating the window- all tests say it's really legit.

have you tried holding back the slider while it is running to see if it draws more current?


Yep..  Holding it still and letting it swing has no effect on the amperage. 
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 21, 2022, 03:21:04 AM
Good question. Pancake coils are another coil setup I have no experience with but have been very interested in. There are some experiments you could do maybe with just really cheap regular insulated wire as far as studying flux and general workings of it before you use expensive good wire. Maybe you have some old wire around somewhere, or maybe you can get lucky unraveling a MOT coil for free wire. Or go really small scale and rip open one of them hundreds of old flip phone wall chargers laying around and rob some wire off of the transformer in it. Just ideas to reuse junk.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 21, 2022, 03:27:32 AM
Yeah. I see what you are aiming for. Your chasing something specific and interesting. I just like to brain storm a bit, and it helps someone else who may be late to party interested in following who may pop in with a great idea at random some day.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 21, 2022, 04:03:19 AM
here is the reciprocator only working in optimal position.  Lowest power draw I could muster..

Demonstrating stopping the slider, letting it reciprocate, and removing the magnet.  All with amp draw showings on 2 meters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDunFxpKUtY
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 22, 2022, 12:45:19 AM
Posting another observation on this configuration.  Take it as you will

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaNGSN7ZdzI
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 22, 2022, 03:04:38 AM
I can make it do miraculous things.  Loading the coil with an 8 ohm resistor causes input wattage to drop when aligned dead center.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehydmPfe66o

But only if I make it smash a stopper on the sides.  I think it has something to do with stopping  "Over Swing". 

i think it's obvious putting the shorted coil in front of it makes it swing harder with more motion.  I think when that happens, it throws the magnet by the stator coil too far and the stator switches polarity when the magnet is still going from the momentum.  So the stator coil needs to exert more power to fight that and reverse the inertia.  But by using hard stoppers in the right place, it shuts down that inertia and allows everything to sync better..

All this is telling me I have to make it with rotation..  If that sweet spot is indeed giving the magnet more momentum when it passes, that last thins I want to do is kill that momentum and reverse it to start over.

I guess I know what I have to do
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: captainpecan on May 22, 2022, 10:15:23 AM
This is very interesting. Judging by the sound, it appears to have a bit of strength to it as well. Nice find. Definitely worth looking further.
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on May 24, 2022, 01:12:44 AM
....
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on June 07, 2022, 02:58:46 AM
OK I am finding this exciting..  I plan to build this effect out in larger scale now after seeing this.

All my tests suggest rotating a magnet over only an extended core will help my rotation, not brake it.  The strongest magnetism shows to be at the edge of the coil, and the polarity does not flip if I run a magnet past the coil edge UNTIL I pass the edge of the core.  So rotating the magnet over the core only without passing the edge should assist in rotation.

I setup a sample rig and tested a few configurations.  With 2 coils (horrible spacing etc) I am able to increase RPM of the rotor by 200 RPM and lower input to the prime mover.

Am I correct that the ever damaging laws of flux braking is not affecting this setup?

Is is core saturation causing the speedup?

Or is something else happening?

Unfortunately I can not test without a core because the core is mandatory.  I need to get laminated cores and build this bigger!

See the first test here-
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfwwIPzcy_4
Title: Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
Post by: floodrod on June 07, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
I did 2 tests which show more info on this effect and in my mind, prove it's worth exploring to the fullest.

1.  It matters not which direction we rotate the rotor..  Coming towards or going away from the coil BOTH produce the same phase! And the nail in the coffin is the polarity stays the same with no flip till the next polarity changes it!  This suggests to me that rotating 1 way the coil will oppose rotation, but rotating the other way may help rotation.  See-  the test
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO9l2hhO1oI


2..  I needed to ensure I knew which polarity the core was at which end when a magnet passes it..  The core takes opposite polarity from the magnet facing it.  If the magnet is North on the right side, the core will be North on the left side.  See the test-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIWPbmQlVfU

This all tells me rotation direction AND magnet / coil placement on the core make a world of difference..  And can explain why I only saw the speedup effect in certain positions.

I have a few more bench tests to do to verify some other factors and find the absolute best placement for all.  But the results are all pointing to something promising