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Author Topic: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build  (Read 8758 times)

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2022, 07:08:00 PM »
The entire parallel coil concept I have not worked with. It's very interesting to see results. I just don't have any bench experience to ad. Just what I've studied. I'm going to have to build a zero force motor even though many haven't had great results, just so I can play with variations.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2022, 08:03:12 PM »
Something to consider, if you are using this coil to induce sideways, the center core size may not matter much since the magnets see only vertically up the middle. I'm just thinking that you can use a thinner air core, maybe as small as a 1/4" wooden dowel or something so you can get more turns in a smaller area. Just a thought. Also, if you have any paired wire or 2 spools, maybe wind a parallel set if wires at the same time. Bifilar wound. Just so you will have more testing options to play with. Could hook the wires in series and would be just like 1 strand. Or could hook in parallel to see the changes. Amd maybe even hook them in series backwards to see how the opposite wound strands would effect things. Just kicking out thoughts that may allow you to play with more variables in you build to learn from.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2022, 08:12:12 PM »
Tell me more about this core saturation.

1. If the core was saturated, would the coil still produce voltage?
2. How could regular lenz reduce core saturation?
3. I would think that for core saturation to go reverse, the Lenz has to be reversed?

Please clear me up here.  All new for me

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2022, 08:40:59 PM »
It's a little confusing to me as well. As far as the current direction from Lenz causing it, I'm not entirely sure. But what I do know, is that the rotor magnet is attracted to the core because the flux is able to go into it person and grab ahold of it. If the core is already saturated, meaning full of magnetic flux already, no more can penetrate it and the rotor magnet passes right on by. My guess is that the induced current from Lenz is at least partially saturating that core, reducing the reaction the rotor magnet has to it. It is not a bad effect, it's just not exactly the same as you were looking for. It is aiding in the rotor motion. But is that aiding only giving back a little we lost having it there at all. That's the issue. I will be driving in a couple hours for most of the night and may not respond. So I will try and find a good orbo explanation video that can show the underlying concept I think you are seeing here. Maybe we can use it as well. But it looks like it is showing you that what you are trying to achieve is partially being achieved, its just hidden inside another issue we need to wrap our heads around as well.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2022, 08:47:01 PM »
Here is part of what I am referring to. In this experiment, he is using a toroid. The magnet is attracted to the toroid metal. When he pulses it to saturate the toroid, the magnet falls away. It is not pushed away by the pulse. The toroid saturates and the magnets field no longer interacts with it. This is the concept I think you are seeing. Lenz is pulsing that core for you. The rotor magnet doesn't interact as strong as speeds up as well as less current because the core isn't slowing it down as much... that's what I THINK you are seeing. If the core wasn't there, I THINK your current will be less amd rpms greater already. I think you are getting back some of your losses from having the core at all.
https://youtu.be/Xjhh0Jwj7vo

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2022, 09:08:48 PM »
Now, if we can use Lenz law to simply cancel a core interaction for us so we don't have to send a pulse to do it, then it's a win anyway. Consider this...


This is a really funky idea, but see if you can visualize. Let's say you have your exact setup with that tall coil. Your rotor turning vertically is causing the Lenz to help cancel the core. Yes it may be not giving a gain to the overall motion of your rotor, but hear me out. If you had a horizontal rotor above it far enough the magnets don't interact with each other. Or even just on the other side of the core. Would the 2nd rotors magnets would be attracted to the core and the proper timing with the lower rotor would allow a neutralized core at the moment the top rotor is trying to leave it. Giving an overall gain... I don't know if I examined that right. It's a wierd idea.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2022, 11:51:35 PM »
Tell me more about this core saturation.

1. If the core was saturated, would the coil still produce voltage?
2. How could regular lenz reduce core saturation?
3. I would think that for core saturation to go reverse, the Lenz has to be reversed?

Please clear me up here.  All new for me
     

1:  Yes, it would but the amplitude of the induced voltage would be much less due to the fact that a saturated core loses it permeability down towards that of the air i.e. even as low as to 1. Putting this otherwise, the earlier coil inductance with the unsaturated core goes down as if it had no core or it would have suddenly a core with much less permeability. 

2:  In your test setup in question the prime mover (a changing magnetic field) rotates the magnets and the magnets induce eddy currents in the core of the 2nd coil and the fields of these eddy currents hamper the rotation of the magnets, this reflects in the prime mover input power. (So it is a good suggestion to remove the 2nd coil+core and see the input to the prime mover.) 
Now what happens if you load the 2nd coil and the coil current creates its own magnetic field?  IMHO the latter influences the intensity of the eddy currents: the directions of the two magnetic fields meeting in the core have an effect that let less eddy current induction happen, hence the core loss gets reduced too. Sorry that I cannot give an exact scientific explanation, perhaps other members here can. Such manifestation happens in the so called acceleration under load tests, experienced by several experimenters. IF your 2nd core (or the whole 2nd coil+core) is removed from the front of the rotating magnets, check the input current too and compare it to that of the presence of the unloaded 2nd coil + core (what you know already).     

3: Well, I would think not. In your 2nd coil when you load it, a normal Lenz effect happens when the rotating magnets induce voltage hence current in them.  And Lenz is to blame for creating eddy currents too (because the core is electrically conductive!) hence a drag to be explored when there is no load across the 2nd coil.   8)

 EDIT see this link, may be useful: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Lenz-s-law-and-eddy-current  

Floor

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2022, 12:30:25 AM »
As an aside, sort of ...

                                                    Newton and Lenz
                                           may not need to be over come. 
                      They likely, will be a part of     why    an O.U device functions.

          Personally, I think it a good idea to understand Newton's observations /" laws ",
                                     front ward and back ward, inside and inside out. 
              Not just memorize them, nor the given standard examples of their expression,
                                    but instead, fully comprehend what Newton observed.
... ... ... ...
                                                   That
Newtons observations       can be / have been     used to construe physic's laws of
conservation                        is quite obvious.                               
                                                    That
they are, now days, so written as to, at least imply those laws of conservation
                                           is also quite obvious.
... ... ... ... ...
                                                   Personally
I do not find physic's laws of conservation to be the natural consequence of Newtons
observations.  Neither do I find them to be some thing which is inherently with in
nor which is the essence of Newton's observations.
... ... ... ...
                                  To allow ones self to be convinced
                                                          that
                         the defiance of Newton's" laws" or Lenz's law
                                         is the path to free energy
                         is to have fallen for / be defeated by a kind of
                                            straw man debating tactic.

                                                          Example

                                      Perpetual motion is impossible !
Really ?

For one, why would anyone think that an O.U. device must be in perpetual motion ?
                                    Only in knee jerk defiance, that's why !

                                                          Beside that,
mankind knows of     no thing   which is not            already,         in perpetual motion !
... ... ... ...
                Defeat Newton's "laws" through permanent magnet interactions ? 
                                                               No!
      Defeat the idea that Newton's "laws" mean that magnets can not do work cyclically !
... ... ... ...
                                                          NEXT...
         Defeat the idea that Lenz's "law" must be over come in order to derive O.U. from
                                                               the fields !
« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 05:20:09 AM by Floor »

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2022, 03:30:56 AM »
Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek. We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said.
After all, if they didn't understand what wind was, a windmill would be perpetual motion as well. We never said there wasn't a source of energy for what we seek.

Floor

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2022, 05:05:48 AM »
Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek. We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said.
After all, if they didn't understand what wind was, a windmill would be perpetual motion as well. We never said there wasn't a source of energy for what we seek.

                      Well said.

"Well, claiming perpetual motion is just for those who don't have a clue what we seek."

                    Indeed / hence / one reason for my own / others use of the term "Over Unity".
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
"We simply seek a way to hook our machines to the wheel work of nature like Tesla said."
True that..
                                                             But every thing       
                                  is already "hooked to the wheel work of nature"
                                                  regardless of what Tesla has said.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
               There are various definitions / classifications / ideas as to what constitutes a field.
Generally, our current vocabulary distinguishes regular / real world objects as not being fields.
                                                        however
                                                 Things are fields. 
                                    Fields with particular characteristics.
                    One of which is long duration in time, as (more or less) a pattern.
                                         Every known thing / object is a field.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
                         "After all, if they didn't understand what wind was,
                              a windmill would be perpetual motion as well."

Given that perpetual motion means that it never stops moving (more or less or practically speaking). Then no, they / people did not think it was perpetual motion and that is not and
was not the meaning of the phrase "perpetual motion".
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
               Energy is a concept, an abstraction, something which is inferred
                                          and which we mathematically derive.
                                                   It cannot be measured.
         Only the changes it has caused (past tense) can be observed or measured.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

                                              That having been said...

                    I think that Lenz's law should be studied / experimented with
                    and every imaginable method by which to "defeat it" explored. 

                     More importantly, every detail of it should be understood in terms
                     of the most absolutely basic and clear ways available to the individual
                                            who is exploring / doing O.U. research
                                                                  related to it.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2022, 08:18:38 AM »
I am thinking the same way. I believe Lenz will be part of the solution, but probably not trying to get rid of it. I believe it will be finding a way to benefit from it. After all, that is a variable that shows up from an outside source in what people think is a closed system. We may not like it right now, but it's predictable, and repeatable, to give us the opportunity to learn how to make it work for us. I think it will have something to do with that, as well as recycling energy we used to create the effect in some ways.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2022, 12:16:21 PM »
I am thinking the same way. I believe Lenz will be part of the solution, but probably not trying to get rid of it. I believe it will be finding a way to benefit from it. After all, that is a variable that shows up from an outside source in what people think is a closed system. We may not like it right now, but it's predictable, and repeatable, to give us the opportunity to learn how to make it work for us. I think it will have something to do with that, as well as recycling energy we used to create the effect in some ways.

I am not trying to "get rid of lenz"..  I am trying to find a configuration where Lenz does not hinder the rotor.  Or better yet- assists.

Magnets going over coils invoke induction. Without this, there is no electric generated. I am looking to eliminate "LENZ DRAG"  --  Not the eliminate the whole Lenz effect.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2022, 01:29:15 PM »
This is what I am getting at. 
And if you don't pass the edge of the coil- it's all one way. No flip on the way out

Floor

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2022, 02:12:48 PM »
I am not trying to "get rid of lenz"..  I am trying to find a configuration where Lenz does not hinder the rotor.  Or better yet- assists.

Magnets going over coils invoke induction. Without this, there is no electric generated. I am looking to eliminate "LENZ DRAG"  --  Not the eliminate the whole Lenz effect.


Again..
Keep on rocken it, to the both of you.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2022, 03:32:16 PM »
Okay I had it a little backwards. No need for a collection coil at all. Just a driver which acts as both.

Pulsing the coil will set direction of flux in coil. You have the ability to cause the rotor to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on when you pulse. The magnet tries to align with the coil polarity, causing the rotor to spin. Nothing new here.

Since this coil configuration causes only one way current with no flips, you can work against your input current or with your input current depending on which way you spin the rotor.

Essentially, you use input current to spin the rotor in the correct direction that the spinning magnets are adding to the induction instead of fighting it. It is possible to build more induction in the coil from the magnet spinning than induction required to spin the magnet.