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Now you are getting somewhere. That's the effect we are looking for. Now, keep from drifting your thoughts to much into the wrong direction. Let's think it through and see if it can be debunked or not. Then move forward knowing you haven't missed something.


Just throwing this out there to test to try and understand exactly what is happening. We have to follow certain methods to not get drawn down a rabbit hole of misinformation on accident. Now let's think, we know we see the effect we want. Now let's narrow down a possible cause that could be fooling us. It is possible that before shorting, the magnets are drawn to the core more and slowing down the rotor. During a short, the core becomes more saturated by the induced magnetic field from Lenz law. This saturation can make the integration with the rotor less because it cannot draw to the core as much. Therefore causing what appears to be a speed up of the rotor, but in actuality is just giving you back some of what you accidentally lost already. This is the principle the orbo motor was designed on. They pulse the core to saturate it so it becomes invisible to the rotor through saturation. It's a fun design you might study someday. It's another backwards thinking concept. What you could be seeing is not actually an increase in rotor speed. It could be getting back what you accidentally wasted by having that coil core there interacting with the rotor at all. A simple test of this theory is remove 2nd coil all together and see if the rpms go up on there own. Does that make sense?


This isn't me being negative. Just trying to know for sure what we are seeing.

Now you are getting somewhere. That's the effect we are looking for. Now, keep from drifting your thoughts to much into the wrong direction. Let's think it through and see if it can be debunked or not. Then move forward knowing you haven't missed something.


Just throwing this out there to test to try and understand exactly what is happening. We have to follow certain methods to not get drawn down a rabbit hole of misinformation on accident. Now let's think, we know we see the effect we want. Now let's narrow down a possible cause that could be fooling us. It is possible that before shorting, the magnets are drawn to the core more and slowing down the rotor. During a short, the core becomes more saturated by the induced magnetic field from Lenz law. This saturation can make the integration with the rotor less because it cannot draw to the core as much. Therefore causing what appears to be a speed up of the rotor, but in actuality is just giving you back some of what you accidentally lost already. This is the principle the orbo motor was designed on. They pulse the core to saturate it so it becomes invisible to the rotor through saturation. It's a fun design you might study someday. It's another backwards thinking concept. What you could be seeing is not actually an increase in rotor speed. It could be getting back what you accidentally wasted by having that coil core there interacting with the rotor at all. A simple test of this theory is remove 2nd coil all together and see if the rpms go up on there own. Does that make sense?


This isn't me being negative. Just trying to know for sure what we are seeing.

I ran the output from the 2nd coul back to the input.  Connected Feeding into Input- RPM increase, and Input wattage decrease.   Opening the coil- RPM go down and Input goes up. 

See-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYvAPd9xqKI

If my theory is correct I can only get this to work spinning the rotor in 1 direction.  If I spin it the other direction- Lenz will work against me the whole time.  It should be very apparent.

I don't mind doing your test- but please explain more.  I would expect RPM to go up moving metal away from the rotor.  Metal creates eddy currents which slow me down.  Move it away and rotor will speed up.  I don't quite see how this test can be accurate

There as a VERY Apparent difference in which direction the rotor spins.  No matter how much I adjust the timing, I can not get the other rotation direction to get anywhere close to this way.  Unless I reverse the coil direction.

If the coils go past the rotor, Lenz can work for you.  Please take the time to listen to the video you referred me to.  About the 36-40 minute timing he explains all this..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g&t=2550s

I watched it again. Don't forget, he is using an air core coil. The core is not a variable in his explanation. Your core is drawing the magnet towards it. His isn't. That changes everything. Doesn't change the concept, just changes the variables you have to consider while testing the concept. His theory is still there.

Gotcha.  I don't mind testing of course.  But I think  it has to be more fair and decisive.  The core does slow it down obviously..  Just because the core slows it more than the induction is helping is not proof the induction is not helping.

What would solve this is if I can build enough induction with no core and reproduce the effects.  I will see if I can do it

Exactly!!! That's what I am getting at. I could be wrong, but I think your core is throwing in a variable that is skewing all your results. I think Lenz is simply starting to hide your core from the rotor giving you the effect you are seeing. Not that it is bad, just that we need to understand what is actually happening to learn from it and maybe use it too. But this way, you have to overcome all the other losses of having the core at all, before you can begin to see if the induction is helping. I think the concept is sound. It's just how to go about it.


Edit... also, the fact that you are getting back any of the losses the core adds, is a move in the right direction.

Something to consider, if you are using this coil to induce sideways, the center core size may not matter much since the magnets see only vertically up the middle. I'm just thinking that you can use a thinner air core, maybe as small as a 1/4" wooden dowel or something so you can get more turns in a smaller area. Just a thought. Also, if you have any paired wire or 2 spools, maybe wind a parallel set if wires at the same time. Bifilar wound. Just so you will have more testing options to play with. Could hook the wires in series and would be just like 1 strand. Or could hook in parallel to see the changes. Amd maybe even hook them in series backwards to see how the opposite wound strands would effect things. Just kicking out thoughts that may allow you to play with more variables in you build to learn from.

It's a little confusing to me as well. As far as the current direction from Lenz causing it, I'm not entirely sure. But what I do know, is that the rotor magnet is attracted to the core because the flux is able to go into it person and grab ahold of it. If the core is already saturated, meaning full of magnetic flux already, no more can penetrate it and the rotor magnet passes right on by. My guess is that the induced current from Lenz is at least partially saturating that core, reducing the reaction the rotor magnet has to it. It is not a bad effect, it's just not exactly the same as you were looking for. It is aiding in the rotor motion. But is that aiding only giving back a little we lost having it there at all. That's the issue. I will be driving in a couple hours for most of the night and may not respond. So I will try and find a good orbo explanation video that can show the underlying concept I think you are seeing here. Maybe we can use it as well. But it looks like it is showing you that what you are trying to achieve is partially being achieved, its just hidden inside another issue we need to wrap our heads around as well.

Now, if we can use Lenz law to simply cancel a core interaction for us so we don't have to send a pulse to do it, then it's a win anyway. Consider this...


This is a really funky idea, but see if you can visualize. Let's say you have your exact setup with that tall coil. Your rotor turning vertically is causing the Lenz to help cancel the core. Yes it may be not giving a gain to the overall motion of your rotor, but hear me out. If you had a horizontal rotor above it far enough the magnets don't interact with each other. Or even just on the other side of the core. Would the 2nd rotors magnets would be attracted to the core and the proper timing with the lower rotor would allow a neutralized core at the moment the top rotor is trying to leave it. Giving an overall gain... I don't know if I examined that right. It's a wierd idea.