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Author Topic: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build  (Read 8763 times)

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2022, 06:19:07 PM »
Let's not get discouraged if your device doesn't do the impossible. Don't forget where you started. Yes it may not be doing exactly as you had hoped. But you went from a motor than runs on 60 watts to one that runs over half as good for less than 1 watt. That's a massive step in the right direction. Also, don't be afraid to take a small win when you get one in this field. It may not be your goal, but who says the motor side has to generate the electrical energy back to make it ou? Sometimes hooking a small generator to a super efficient motor may be exactly the answer you need. 2 separate halves, working in unisom, could give you what you seek. I'm only throwing that out there because I see a partial win here and the last video seems to be an attitude change as if you are disappointed. Just don't forget what you have accomplished and learned on the way! After all, the inventor of the post it notes was actually trying to make the world's strongest super glue. But I think he ended up doing okay..

I am actually excited it's rotating in the right direction at all.  I think I know how to do it.  I been bench testing and all this add's up.

1. Core polarity does not change if you raise or lower the core.  The wire is still twisting around the core the same direction if the core is fully through or only partially through. You can totally have the NORTH of the core on the South side of the coil..  How this affects electric generation is to be seen yet.

2. The core gets more flux inside than an air coil.  The core over-powers the air core side. 

3. Raising the core is essential for 2 reasons.  to attract the magnet past the the stick point on the way in- and to get that other end of the magnetized core as far away from the rotor as possible so it does not hinder the exit.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2022, 08:53:33 PM »
Well, if the motor will overcome its own frictional resistance, this will already be a big victory. :)

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #152 on: May 08, 2022, 01:47:30 AM »
While I stew on all this- I will take some time to investigate my previous experience- why the motor sped up when I loaded the generator coil. I looked closer at the setup when it was doing that..  I noticed the rotor was not even close to the middle of the coil.  It was way down..  Past the center line.

So I powered the coil and hand tested to see the reactions.  When the rotor magnet is in line with the bottom of the core- the coil kicks the rotor out hard. and it has like barely any resistance coming in because the top pole is so far away.

There might be something to this-  The alignment of where the magnet passes the coil skews how the coil's poles affect the rotor.  You certainly have 1 pole affecting the rotor more than the other. 

I am going to check into this more soon

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #153 on: May 08, 2022, 06:13:51 AM »
I put the other rotor back on, found which way everything has to be to work the motor with repel the same direction as current. And it's looking much better.  I can get some RPM's now going the right way. I will have to try this repel configuration with the dog-bone rotor later, see which one gives more RPM.

Here is the video demonstrating how it works-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk8PZbF0hcE

And here is it spinning with only pulsing 1 side-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEnCH2aFeU

When I hooked it up pulsing both sides, it went much better and quicker.  Then my last H-bridge gave up the ghost because of a difference in potential between grounds. I did not get a video of pulsing both sides this round.

I got more h-bridges ordered but my weekend is over and I am out as of now.   More to come soon!

Oh- and attached is what the sinewave looks like with the core like this

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #154 on: May 08, 2022, 09:48:36 AM »
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #155 on: May 08, 2022, 12:29:18 PM »
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??

This way it actually repels away at the lower half now and works much better this way.   Like a 1/4 both with 3 nuts at the end? May still work and is worth trying.  It won't have as much core meat on the way in to attract to- and perhaps get a bigger repel.  I will try tonight.  Also worth trying is that floating stub again in this mode.  Might give me a little attract / repel action right where I want it and not affect the incoming at all.  Much to experiment with.

Another option to increase RPM which I half tested would be using 2 same polarity magnets in the rotor. Then bend the metal core out away from the rotor and stick a big NEO magnet on the top end of the core.  That makes my repel pole in the coil stronger.  But it will only work for same pole rotor because I would need to flip the magnet every 1/2 turn if the rotor alternated.  Maybe just even putting a magnet down there in the core.  So much to test!

If this motor does work- I'd imagine it would only work till core saturation.  Because it is relying on the core's magnetism.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #156 on: May 09, 2022, 05:14:43 PM »

You have probably already researched a bit into it, but I keep bringing up the zero force motor. There are similarities for sure. I am not saying there is no back emf for sure yet of course as bedini claims, but I do see some key similarities here. I'm just posting this in case you have not seen it as similar designs you may follow to get ideas of small things to try with yours. The current draw sure looks way better in this video than many others I have seen with the zero force motor design, and it pretty much matches what you are seeing in your setup. I note this because something is different with the tiny current yours and bedinis draws compared to many others. There is clearly a subtle difference that makes this happen and you seem to be hitting on it as well.
.......
 

Regarding the no backemf claim for the zero force motor (ZFM), you can notice the induced backemf in the same video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc John B. himself made on it,  see the two snapshots I attached. In this simplest ZFM, the magnets move and induce voltage in the coil from sideway like Naudin showed in the right hand side coil positioning here http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif   
The induced voltage (I indicated it by the arrow) in John's coil was around 2.5 to 3 V peak with no core (scope setting was 5V/DIV in that snapshot) and was around 5 to 6 V peak with the iron pipe core (scope was already in 10V/DIV).
 
These are low values with respect to the 12-13 V supply voltage and their effect is surely low accordingly, for sure, but backemf was present.  If you ponder on why it was low, IMHO the low induced values were due to the big coil sizes with respect to the moderate sized magnets used and the air gap size between the coil top side and the rotating magnets (see this gap at video time 1:20 - 1:21). The 200 mA current (the analog ampmeter showed) went down to around 20-30 mA (as I estimate it, the 5 Amper FSD meter makes it hard to estimate...).  The iron pipe increased the coil AC inductance hence its inductive reactance, this explains the lower current draw and the increased RPM. 

Regarding the other ZFM setup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4 John showed it as an advanced version built and presented to him by Peter L, you can find all the important details in these posts by Peter as Retep: 

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35942#post35942

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35947#post35947

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35958#post35958

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35975#post35975

https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35984#post35984


In his closing post on the ZFM:  https://www.energyscienceforum.com/forum/alternative-energy/john-bedini/1861-zero-force-motor-replication-project?p=35986#post35986   he wrote this: 

"I am not going to go into Operational Theory concerning this motor in this thread, so don't ask. No one's speculations so far are even close.  I will say this. In this machine, Lenz's Law is FULLY OPERATIONAL, as is Ohm's Law,  Kirchhoff's Law,  Faraday's Law of Induction,  and  Newton's Third Law of Motion.  Anyone who says different does not know how the machine works!" 

Unfortunately, there have been no any performance measurements shown on this advanced ZFM setup, to date. Member Yaro's tests with his own replications I referred to earlier yielded around 51 % measured efficiency.

Gyula

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #157 on: May 09, 2022, 07:21:28 PM »
Yes I agree. It is a super efficient motor, but if it rotates against current like all the examples, all the laws still apply .  There is much experimenting to do here, but that's for a later date.

I want to bring my topic back to the original idea which it was created for. Bench testing and watching the scope is suggesting something pretty amazing regarding my original layout. It seems it needed a little tweaking, but I think it looks very promising. I will be posting more on it soon

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #158 on: May 10, 2022, 01:39:29 AM »
Please review before I build this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qQh_nsBg8

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #159 on: May 10, 2022, 01:01:16 PM »

Would like to understand your term "no polarity flip"   because the induced voltage waveform changes polarity from negative to positive as the SN magnet comes from the left hand side coil edge to the center of the coil and beyond.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #160 on: May 10, 2022, 01:25:37 PM »
Would like to understand your term "no polarity flip"   because the induced voltage waveform changes polarity from negative to positive as the SN magnet comes from the left hand side coil edge to the center of the coil and beyond.

With a single magnet passing over the entire coil- you get 1 complete sinewave.  half is 1 polarity- half is the other polarity.
Sliding 1 magnet 1/2 the coil without crossing center gives 1 polarity.

Sliding 2 magnets over a coil gives 1 polarity if you do not cross the edges of the coil in or out.

SLiding 2 magnets completely accross gives the same signal as sliding 1 magnet 1/2 way.

"Polarity flip" only happens when the voltage crosses the zero line.  Going up and down on the same side of the zero line is all still one polarity.  Just weaker on either side and stronger in the middle.


The image you posted shows a very slight flip at the very end because I was stopping the magnet.  In non-stopping motion- the wave is completely on 1 side of the line

Russ explains about the zero line and polarity at mark 12:14 of this video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #161 on: May 10, 2022, 04:02:43 PM »

I watched the video in slow motion and freezed the moment (attached below) when you almost reached the right hand side end of the coil, starting from the left hand side and you started counting the moves.  The induced waveform started in the negative polarity as the trailing S pole of the magnets defined and the moment the 2 magnets crossed the center line of the coil the induced wave also crossed the zero voltage line and went up to the positive polarity.  It is okay that the induced amplitudes are small but zero voltage line crossing definitely happened between the two edges. 

You wrote:   
     "Sliding 2 magnets over a coil gives 1 polarity if you do not cross the edges of the coil in or out." 
Sorry but I have not noticed this in the video. 

I understand and agree with this: "Going up and down on the same side of the zero line is all still one polarity.  Just weaker on either side and stronger in the middle."
but this is not case in my previous and present snaphots where zero line crossings hence the flips of the induced voltage polarity happen.

You wrote: 
     "The image you posted shows a very slight flip at the very end because I was stopping the magnet.  In non-stopping motion- the wave is completely on 1 side of the line"

But when you stopped the 2 magnets, by that moment you already crossed the center line of the coil from left to right, shown in my previous snapshot. And the induced voltage polarity has changed. The induced amplitudes are small indeed but they are small on both the positive and the negative polarity sides below and above and zero voltage line. And in the below snapshot the + and -  amplitudes are quasi equal.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #162 on: May 10, 2022, 04:29:26 PM »
It is difficult to show when changing directions like reciprocation.  And also very difficult when we're going slow and stopping. So let me post a snap when I pass two magnets over the entire coil.

Two magnets passing entirely over the coil including edges produces that signal.  The only time we get a polarity flip is when the magnets enter and exit the edges of the coil.

The signature is like the exact same as if we pass the coil at the other 90° angle

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2022, 04:49:31 PM »
Here's that video. https://youtu.be/t7Eb1lpsvfw

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #164 on: May 10, 2022, 04:53:55 PM »

Okay, I understand now.  Unfortunately I did not realize earlier that your tests with the two magnets joined as SN (or NS of course) corresponds to the improved  case shown by member partzman here https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg565002/#msg565002  Naudin showed the coil at other 90° angle indeed. 

Now you can load the coil by say a 10 or 20 Ohm resistor and somehow check Lenz counter to motion.  A pendulum-like setup where the movement of the bob (that includes the two magnets)  would be confined to the edges of the coil and count the number of swings?  One possibility.
Thanks for explaining.