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Author Topic: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build  (Read 20520 times)

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #135 on: May 07, 2022, 03:45:41 AM »
It looks like you are running that air core in that last video. I was watching a zero force motor test from tinman that showed putting the core inside it really hurt the performance. Are you seeing the same thing with this setup? Just curious. Also, is your rpm triggering only once per rotation or is it catching both magnets and it's actually half the speed shown? Looking good, just gaining info on your setup.

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #136 on: May 07, 2022, 04:25:45 AM »
It looks like you are running that air core in that last video. I was watching a zero force motor test from tinman that showed putting the core inside it really hurt the performance. Are you seeing the same thing with this setup? It is the sideways coil configuration. Just curious. Also, is your rpm triggering only once per rotation or is it catching both magnets and it's actually half the speed shown? Looking good, just gaining info on your setup.

It's happening because of a 2" piece of rebar sits in the coil about 1" from the bottom.  I have an air gap at the bottom of the core- then the 2" stub of rebar that comes up under 1/2 way the coil. Then about 40-50% of the core above that is air. About 60% of the core is air.

It's working on attraction pulses.  The rebar is in a perfect position to attract the incoming magnet (where it always gets stuck at the pole) and sends the rotor right past the sticky spot and out the top..  No stick coming in or going out really.  And the rebar stub makes it possible to go the way it never want's to go- with current.. 

If I use a full core, I can get it going as fast the other direction, but using 15X as much input power- because then it's going against current like always.. My last post used 2 trigger spots, 1 each magnet. My RPM meter was catching 1 magnet- it only works on 1 polarity. Before I read 1300+, right now I got 1050 RPM.  I been playing with the timing / sensors the last hour seeing how efficient I can get it.  I can get it going quicker, but then I am pulsing outside my window and the amps creep up a bit.  I only want to pulse in the window to keep those amps below 0.00

If the wife lets me, tomorrow I plan to wind another bifilar coil for the other side.  And get a better collection circuit hooked up so I know it's working. 

One thing I said, but I'll say again.  Getting the rotor to spin with current flow is was difficult.  It doesn't want to go in that direction.  But that little core stub floating in there solved that..

Here is a video of the whole motor setup from top to bottom.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRG9quRn4A

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #137 on: May 07, 2022, 09:15:31 AM »
You have probably already researched a bit into it, but I keep bringing up the zero force motor. There are similarities for sure. I am not saying there is no back emf for sure yet of course as bedini claims, but I do see some key similarities here. I'm just posting this in case you have not seen it as similar designs you may follow to get ideas of small things to try with yours. The current draw sure looks way better in this video than many others I have seen with the zero force motor design, and it pretty much matches what you are seeing in your setup. I note this because something is different with the tiny current yours and bedinis draws compared to many others. There is clearly a subtle difference that makes this happen and you seem to be hitting on it as well.
https://youtu.be/w-GZerEwObo
https://youtu.be/fZVwMvFxPMg

Offline Tarsier_79

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #138 on: May 07, 2022, 11:05:08 AM »
Gday F

I haven't read back all through the thread. Can you post the drive circuit? I may be able to suggest a way to measure the current more accurately if you like.

Also, have you thought of using an interrupted LED timing circuit? It is more accurate and more controllable, you can adjust both the timing and the length of the pulse.

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #139 on: May 07, 2022, 01:35:52 PM »
...

I retract some of my statements.  I am NOT rotating with current. I am going against it still.  The piece of core is just adding to the already present forces that pull the rotor through.

Russ's statements would be correct- that there would be no drag "IF" you could make your rotor rotate the way it resists. But that means no Lenz. And that "IF" is the killer... 

I don't think this can go overunity UNLESS I get it rotating the other way. 

Good learning process! 

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #140 on: May 07, 2022, 02:35:28 PM »
But I still believe that the conclusions of the coil moving past the permanent magnet better close and disclose by contacts or relay. This does not require us to spend any energy and power sources.
True, in this case, the interaction forces will be much weaker than in the case of passing current through the coil. That's what pushes us away from this method...

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #141 on: May 07, 2022, 03:17:29 PM »
But I still believe that the conclusions of the coil moving past the permanent magnet better close and disclose by contacts or relay. This does not require us to spend any energy and power sources.
True, in this case, the interaction forces will be much weaker than in the case of passing current through the coil. That's what pushes us away from this method...

Yes but I think we can never generate extra power this way.  It works to produce power efficiently with the prime mover- but we can never extract the power.  We get an ultra efficient motor that we can not tap for power.  The power we generate from the magnet passing the coil will be going opposite.  If we manage to get it to exactly balance and run with no input- as soon as you pull power, the rotor will slow and stop.  It can not cross the zero line this way and give more out than in. Because as soon as the coil's flux from the passing magnet is equal to input and passes the zero line to negative territory, the passing magnets flux over-powers the direction of flux that's making it move.

The rotor needs to spin in the same direction as current.  I can make it do it- but barely..  I'm not even going to experiment going the wrong way- because I am not looking for an efficient motor that draws minimal power. 

edit-  my original configuration works the same way as current.  It's awkward with the big rod sticking out the top- , but I can get 62 degrees of a pulse window where the pulse helps me to a degree.  My timing magnets can only use about 1/2 that window and I can get it spinning all correct (barely)..  I am next going to make a timing wheel to capture the whole window.  And when I make the next coil- I can have 2 windows (I think)..

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #142 on: May 07, 2022, 04:23:54 PM »
This is an example of spinning correctly--  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHeX6ar-22U

I am able to do even quicker using magnets on top of the rod.  This is the direction I will be going

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #143 on: May 07, 2022, 05:29:17 PM »
Let's not get discouraged if your device doesn't do the impossible. Don't forget where you started. Yes it may not be doing exactly as you had hoped. But you went from a motor than runs on 60 watts to one that runs over half as good for less than 1 watt. That's a massive step in the right direction. Also, don't be afraid to take a small win when you get one in this field. It may not be your goal, but who says the motor side has to generate the electrical energy back to make it ou? Sometimes hooking a small generator to a super efficient motor may be exactly the answer you need. 2 separate halves, working in unisom, could give you what you seek. I'm only throwing that out there because I see a partial win here and the last video seems to be an attitude change as if you are disappointed. Just don't forget what you have accomplished and learned on the way! After all, the inventor of the post it notes was actually trying to make the world's strongest super glue. But I think he ended up doing okay..

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #144 on: May 07, 2022, 06:19:07 PM »
Let's not get discouraged if your device doesn't do the impossible. Don't forget where you started. Yes it may not be doing exactly as you had hoped. But you went from a motor than runs on 60 watts to one that runs over half as good for less than 1 watt. That's a massive step in the right direction. Also, don't be afraid to take a small win when you get one in this field. It may not be your goal, but who says the motor side has to generate the electrical energy back to make it ou? Sometimes hooking a small generator to a super efficient motor may be exactly the answer you need. 2 separate halves, working in unisom, could give you what you seek. I'm only throwing that out there because I see a partial win here and the last video seems to be an attitude change as if you are disappointed. Just don't forget what you have accomplished and learned on the way! After all, the inventor of the post it notes was actually trying to make the world's strongest super glue. But I think he ended up doing okay..

I am actually excited it's rotating in the right direction at all.  I think I know how to do it.  I been bench testing and all this add's up.

1. Core polarity does not change if you raise or lower the core.  The wire is still twisting around the core the same direction if the core is fully through or only partially through. You can totally have the NORTH of the core on the South side of the coil..  How this affects electric generation is to be seen yet.

2. The core gets more flux inside than an air coil.  The core over-powers the air core side. 

3. Raising the core is essential for 2 reasons.  to attract the magnet past the the stick point on the way in- and to get that other end of the magnetized core as far away from the rotor as possible so it does not hinder the exit.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #145 on: May 07, 2022, 08:53:33 PM »
Well, if the motor will overcome its own frictional resistance, this will already be a big victory. :)

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #146 on: May 08, 2022, 01:47:30 AM »
While I stew on all this- I will take some time to investigate my previous experience- why the motor sped up when I loaded the generator coil. I looked closer at the setup when it was doing that..  I noticed the rotor was not even close to the middle of the coil.  It was way down..  Past the center line.

So I powered the coil and hand tested to see the reactions.  When the rotor magnet is in line with the bottom of the core- the coil kicks the rotor out hard. and it has like barely any resistance coming in because the top pole is so far away.

There might be something to this-  The alignment of where the magnet passes the coil skews how the coil's poles affect the rotor.  You certainly have 1 pole affecting the rotor more than the other. 

I am going to check into this more soon

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #147 on: May 08, 2022, 06:13:51 AM »
I put the other rotor back on, found which way everything has to be to work the motor with repel the same direction as current. And it's looking much better.  I can get some RPM's now going the right way. I will have to try this repel configuration with the dog-bone rotor later, see which one gives more RPM.

Here is the video demonstrating how it works-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk8PZbF0hcE

And here is it spinning with only pulsing 1 side-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEnCH2aFeU

When I hooked it up pulsing both sides, it went much better and quicker.  Then my last H-bridge gave up the ghost because of a difference in potential between grounds. I did not get a video of pulsing both sides this round.

I got more h-bridges ordered but my weekend is over and I am out as of now.   More to come soon!

Oh- and attached is what the sinewave looks like with the core like this

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #148 on: May 08, 2022, 09:48:36 AM »
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??

Online floodrod

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Re: Floodrod's Etheric Generator Research / Build
« Reply #149 on: May 08, 2022, 12:29:18 PM »
Just a thought, while you wait for your parts. Do you have a thinner bolt to use? Like, 1/4" maybe. And wedge some paper in there so the core is pushed against the furthest edge inside the coil. Then at the bottom place a thicker piece of metal about 1" tall or so just below the thinner bolt. Just curious if maybe the thinner core is still enough to pull it in, but as it comes in, it may have a slightly stronger attraction to the lower 1" which is thicker and pull the magnet just past the center spot so that it aligns that little bit better on it's own for your pulse? I think I explained it right. Basically what you have now, but thicker at the very bottom, and thinner and more away by just a bit on the way up. Just a thought that may help you get that extra 1/4" past the center you may want to line it up better??

This way it actually repels away at the lower half now and works much better this way.   Like a 1/4 both with 3 nuts at the end? May still work and is worth trying.  It won't have as much core meat on the way in to attract to- and perhaps get a bigger repel.  I will try tonight.  Also worth trying is that floating stub again in this mode.  Might give me a little attract / repel action right where I want it and not affect the incoming at all.  Much to experiment with.

Another option to increase RPM which I half tested would be using 2 same polarity magnets in the rotor. Then bend the metal core out away from the rotor and stick a big NEO magnet on the top end of the core.  That makes my repel pole in the coil stronger.  But it will only work for same pole rotor because I would need to flip the magnet every 1/2 turn if the rotor alternated.  Maybe just even putting a magnet down there in the core.  So much to test!

If this motor does work- I'd imagine it would only work till core saturation.  Because it is relying on the core's magnetism.