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Author Topic: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log  (Read 6104 times)

Floor

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2022, 05:02:44 AM »
It is very good I think,
                 that you have now  tested this for your self.

That near to nothing effect,
                   is what I myself,  at one point, referred to as ...

                                    "an amazing transparency to the magnetic forces"

It was not the result / data I had hoped for / expected at that time, at all.
                   It was in fact, very much so, to the contrary of what I had hoped for.

What a trip ay ?

I had to simply accept the info and stow it in the ole cranial data base.

Thanks very much for the good build and demo.

   best wishes  :)

             P.S.     
             My test was something like a cross between your last one
             and this, your present build.  Your demo is valid confirmation.
                 thanks..
                    also
            Yours is a much better build and demo than was mine at that time.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2022, 06:24:42 AM »
I was looking into magnetic neutralization when I decided to get out parts I already had to experiment.  I like what I am seeing...  This is nothing new- we see it with switchable magnets.  But I have not seen it with an air-gap (no metal on metal friction except bearings)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtjhqboovCQ

I tried closing the loop at the bottom with steel (only leaving the top open) and to my surprise, the magnetic pull force seemed to get weaker.  The 1 magnet I am using is 2 times as wide than it is think. If I double it up, it should be a buttload stronger. 

I haven't done any measurements, but it got me thinking..  With a 4 wing metal-only rotor and 2 of these, it may be usable.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2022, 03:00:39 AM »
Tonight my parts were done with my next toy, so I assembled a sloppy version to test it out..  Many of these projects I am seeing and am interested in require some sort of reciprocation or a linear actuator.  So I want to build a killer actuator with lots of power with as little input as I can.

I rigged up an electromagnet and 2 permanent magnets on linear rails and controlled it via an ardiuno to test.  I have no idea how to test this besides stringing up a scale, but even that is questionable because I think I would need to measure the throw, as it becomes quite obvious that the force decreases as the throw decreases (and movement increases). And the power input changes depending on speed between polarity flips.

I am hoping people could throw ideas at me with this....  How to get the most bang for my buck?  How to lower input power to bare minimum while preserving force?  Iron core or air coils best?  Stacking more permanent magnets on top of the 2 large ones will add force?

Collecting flyback voltage?  What gives me the most flyback collection ability?  High voltage / low amps?  Will collecting flyback hurt of help the actuator in any way? 

I can already think of several uses for this actuator and by observation, it seems to be much more powerful than the old speaker setup I am used it.

I look forward to any feedback...  See the device here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngOzXVPkzl8      8)

The video might be a bit long as it shows several speeds of magnetic pole flipping with all action..

Thanks in advance


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2022, 04:05:14 PM »
Hi Floodrod, 

You ask good questions...   8)    Member gotoluc here asked quasi the same questions, see here:
  https://overunity.com/8429/mostly-permanent-magnet-motor-with-minimal-input-power/ 
 https://overunity.com/8429/mostly-permanent-magnet-motor-with-minimal-input-power/msg214772/#msg214772 
  https://overunity.com/8429/mostly-permanent-magnet-motor-with-minimal-input-power/msg318864/#msg318864   
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1dO8qWPQU   

Quote
   Collecting flyback voltage?  What gives me the most flyback collection ability?   


see here for instance:   https://overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg352483/#msg352483  and  https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg336989/#msg336989 

These links do not answer all your questions though... but at least may give you some further pieces of knowledge.

Gyula

 

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2022, 12:49:57 AM »
Thanks gyulasun.  i reviewed your info and will be referencing it again in the future.

Many new ideas have been popping, so I just tested the actuator on a lenz-free device I saw posted on youtube some time back.  And once again I am intrigued by the idea..

The main idea is that lenz only occurs in the coil itself, not affecting input power at all.  Lenz is just governing output power per coil.  But I am wondering if it is possible to just keep adding coils as needed till it goes overunity.   The only increase of input power as I see it would be the weight being added.  But that could be dealt with.

Check the video out of it in action..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-244zEUQTM


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2022, 11:59:44 AM »

 
The main idea is that lenz only occurs in the coil itself, not affecting input power at all.  Lenz is just governing output power per coil.
 

Well, I am afraid the small output you get explains the seemingly no Lenz effect... for the magnet moving inside the coil receives the back and forth movements from the actuator, that is the source of the output. 

You would need to check how the input current to the actuator changes when your generator coil (with increased number of turns or even adding further coils) produces comparable output power to that of the actuator input.   

I wonder what kind of Lenz free device you managed to see on youtube?   8)   Did it get disappeared? 
 
Thanks for showing your tests.
Gyula


Thanks gyulasun.  i reviewed your info and will be referencing it again in the future.

Many new ideas have been popping, so I just tested the actuator on a lenz-free device I saw posted on youtube some time back.  And once again I am intrigued by the idea..

The main idea is that lenz only occurs in the coil itself, not affecting input power at all.  Lenz is just governing output power per coil.  But I am wondering if it is possible to just keep adding coils as needed till it goes overunity.   The only increase of input power as I see it would be the weight being added.  But that could be dealt with.

Check the video out of it in action..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-244zEUQTM

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2022, 02:54:39 PM »
 

Well, I am afraid the small output you get explains the seemingly no Lenz effect... for the magnet moving inside the coil receives the back and forth movements from the actuator, that is the source of the output. 

Gyula

Thank you for evaluating Gyula.

I do not doubt what you say, just struggle to understand the reason why.

The coil itself (along with the magnet) moves with the actuator.  Lenz will develop inside the coil as the flux increases inside the coil from the passing magnet, thus slowing the magnet's movement. This I do understand.  Lenz will govern the coils output.

But what I fail to understand is how this could stress the actuator itself (besides adding more weight by adding additional coils).  The actuator is only moving weight, and the weight stays the same whether the magnet is locked in position or free-sliding around (because we are moving the entire coil also). If anything, I would imagine the actuator input to go lower as Lenz builds because the magnet will not be bashing on the opposing side of the stroke so hard.

It is very possible I am not seeing the whole picture.  I post to learn and hear from others (like You).  But any explanation on to why this lenz inside the coil will stress the actuator would be enlightening to me :)

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2022, 03:13:41 PM »
In a nutshell I believe it’s inertia. When coil is open magnet slides back and forth freely. When coil is shorted Lenz will oppose magnet. That magnet has some amount of inertia. Now your actuator has to fight that inertia. Not and expert but that’s the way I see it.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2022, 04:05:16 PM »


Well, I may have misunderstood your test setup here. I thought the magnet can freely move inside the coil?  If not, what causes induction in the output coil? Because the magnet+coil moves together with the actuator, no?   

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2022, 04:08:52 PM »
In a nutshell I believe it’s inertia. When coil is open magnet slides back and forth freely. When coil is shorted Lenz will oppose magnet. That magnet has some amount of inertia. Now your actuator has to fight that inertia. Not and expert but that’s the way I see it.

Yes I can understand how this may come into play.  The dynamics of it get complicated to understand.

The actuator will obviously be ahead of the magnet, and the magnet will always trail the actuator. Since you are moving the coil against a magnet that is not traveling at the exact same speed and timed differently, yes lenz will be affecting the actuator.

So many questions!  This may end up on my list to experiment with at a later time when  I have nothing else going on. 

Offline floodrod

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2022, 04:17:39 PM »

Well, I may have misunderstood your test setup here. I thought the magnet can freely move inside the coil?  If not, what causes induction in the output coil? Because the magnet+coil moves together with the actuator, no?

Yes the magnet is enclosed inside the coil and can slide inside the tube past the coils. The tube is attached to the actuator.

I do see how Lenz could come into play now as the coil will be ahead of the magnet on each stroke, thus transferring the resistance to the actuator. .  The more I look at it, the more I start to think it's all relative. 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2022, 04:25:07 PM »
Yes, it "should be" like that and unfortunately the Lenz draw could be measured more readily when the output power would approach the input power to the actuator. 
(Whenever we measure or indicate current the low decimal digits resolution of the meter may hide small changes which may amount to tens of milliAmpers for instance.  I mention this in general.)

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Floodrods Magnetic Testing Log
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2022, 04:38:43 PM »
It looks as though ends of tube are taped off. Is air still able to move freely in or out of tube. Or is the magnet inside small enough to not cause air compression.