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Author Topic: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.  (Read 9277 times)

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2022, 11:32:29 PM »
Your video still proves it. You accidently showed it at the last second the video cuts when you pull you hand away from the rotor. The magnet does 1 full pass without you stopping it. Look at the wave form at the last second.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2022, 11:41:46 PM »
I see why that test showed you what it did and why it is confusing you. You are slowing it down and stopping in the middle of the coil each time. So you only see the 2nd half of the coil. That's why you are only seeing one polarity each time. You are pushing it away but slowing it on the way in. If you assume the peak is the center, it makes you only test half of the cycle. Don't assume that. I know it sounds true, but it isn't. You will see. You just have to step back and look at it different than you are. Turn it from before the coil to after it. One full pass. Not from center to center. You will then see both polarities with one pass.

Your probably right-  starting between magnets does flip at dead center. 

 but this is still considered a win to me..  Center to center = 1 direction current.  No current flip exiting and entering on the next magnet till dead center.

If I have same way current from dead center to dead center-  the induced flux has to be attracting a rotor magnet and repelling the other since they are alternating.

I marked the rotor with a red dot on 1 magnet.  Spunn the rotor 1 complete revolution and took a pic.  1 rotation = 2 complete waves.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2022, 11:48:48 PM »
Yeah, here was screen shots of the last second of your video. It shows it happening on 1 pole of a magnet passing.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2022, 11:53:39 PM »
I marked the rotor with a red dot on 1 magnet.  Spunn the rotor 1 complete revolution and took a pic.  1 rotation = 2 complete waves.
There you go. Now the original waveform makes sense. Now you can see the 2 cycles yourself hopefully. It's a bit hard to wrap your mind around, I know. I had many confused nights trying to understand it myself. But when you get it, you really start to understand things better. It's awesome to know someone else here that has a twisted mind like me has this tool as well.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2022, 11:58:27 PM »
@floodrod
BTW, feel free to message me if you want any special threads for research or builds. Stefan hooked me up with a builders board and I can easily get you any moderated thread you would like to work with. Just message me and I'll hook you up.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2022, 11:59:21 PM »
There you go. Now the original waveform makes sense. Now you can see the 2 cycles yourself hopefully. It's a bit hard to wrap your mind around, I know. I had many confused nights trying to understand it myself. But when you get it, you really start to understand things better. It's awesome to know someone else here that has a twisted mind like me has this tool as well.

Yes..  But not 4 sinewaves per rotation..  Only 2...   Same way current center to center..  =   it can not be opposing rotation the whole way.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2022, 01:24:14 AM »
Cool!..  When 2 alternating polarity magnets pass a coil-  the joining line between the magnets work together and eliminate a polarity change causing an amplified wave rather than 2 smaller waves individually.

The pattern is as follows:

1 magnet= 1 Sinewave...
2 magnets = 1.5 sine waves.
3 magnets = 2 sine waves
4 magnets= 2.5 sine waves
5 magnets = 3 sine waves
6 magnets = 3.5 sine waves.

In the case of my rotor- I have 4 alternating magnets.  If I go dead center to dead center without passing the last coil- I get 2 sine waves.  If I go past the coils center before stopping I get the 2.5 sine waves.

We can control the sine wave count if your rotors magnets are within flux range from each other and if they are alternating.  Which means we can pick the direction of current on exit.

------>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXt78KfV8RU

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2022, 02:25:31 AM »
Interesting stuff. That wave from the 2 magnets looks very similar to the waveform of a sideways coil.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2022, 02:57:29 AM »
Interesting stuff. That wave from the 2 magnets looks very similar to the waveform of a sideways coil.

My theory on that is:

when the current flips at dead center, if the magnets flip polarity at that exact spot, it cancels out a current flip and amplifies that spike.

1 Magnet has 1 sine wave
2 magnets would have 2 sine waves, but we have 1 join so subtract 1/2 sine wave and get 1.5
3 magnets should have 3 sine waves, but we have 2 joins so subtract 1 sine wave and get 2
4 magnets should have 4 sine waves, but we have 3 joins so subtract 1.5 sine waves and get 2.5
5 magnets should have 5 sinewaves, but we have 4 joins so subtract 2 and we get 3
6 magnets should have 6 sine waves, but we have 5 joins, so subtract 2.5 and we get 3.5
etc.


Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2022, 01:04:52 PM »
After drawing this all out dozens of times-  I realized It has to be true..    If it didn't do this-  standard alternating magnet generators would have no drag...  but this isn't the case!  That cancelling out of a current change is making sure standard generators do NOT go overunity.


on my alternating pole rotor- if it made 4 sine waves it would have no drag!  but it can't let that happen... so it removed a current polarity swap per magnet and only has 2.

but now i know how to change current direction..  Perhaps there is a configuration that would do what I seek. I have to work out all combinations and sine wave directions and see..  There are dozens of possibilities to explore with this.  but one thing is for sure-  my current rotor / coil design with 4 poles and 4 coils aligned can not eliminate drag in this configuration..

Not a "success" yet-  but certainly a "win" .  Now I am not randomly switching coils in the dark with no idea what's going on..  Now I have the tools to make a complete strategy and attack plan.  A step forward!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 12:55:51 AM by floodrod »

Floor

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2022, 03:08:48 AM »
Just wanted to say that it's much appreciated (the topics etc.) that
you and Cap. Pecan are doing..

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2022, 03:33:19 AM »
Thanks Floor- I am enjoying myself and learning..

Next Post question:

4 same polarity coil.....   (adams style)...   Where is the drag????  All drag must be neutralized in it...

Picture it..  all magnets are same polarity..  So the coil can be ANY polarity and no drag..

1. if  Coil is always north= Neutralized
2. If coil is always south = Neutralized
3.  if coil is South on entrance, North on exit=  Neutralized
4. Coil is North on entrance , south on exit- Neutralized.

I can see only 1 possible way there can be drag-  if coil polarity flips exactly between magnets.

Where is the Zero points in this setup?  I watched it on my scope and know (as the scope looks) 1 revolution of 4 magnets makes 4 complete waves.   Or it might be 4 half waves one way and the bottom looks like a down wave.  Not sure..

I assembled this setup with 6 coils around 4 magnet rotor and have a timing circuit in place to collect only 4 pulses per revolution in hopes to catch it at a place where juicing it would initiate rotation, but no luck yet.  The air coils I have in place may not be getting enough power from it..  Or maybe my timing is off.  I assume there will be 4 places that assist the rotation.

But knowing how thing go in this hobby, I wouldn't be suprised to hear they flip between the magnets..  (the only place I see limiting us)


Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2022, 04:10:06 AM »
Cool!..  When 2 alternating polarity magnets pass a coil-  the joining line between the magnets work together and eliminate a polarity change causing an amplified wave rather than 2 smaller waves individually.

The pattern is as follows:

1 magnet= 1 Sinewave...
2 magnets = 1.5 sine waves.
3 magnets = 2 sine waves
4 magnets= 2.5 sine waves
5 magnets = 3 sine waves
6 magnets = 3.5 sine waves.

In the case of my rotor- I have 4 alternating magnets.  If I go dead center to dead center without passing the last coil- I get 2 sine waves.  If I go past the coils center before stopping I get the 2.5 sine waves.

We can control the sine wave count if your rotors magnets are within flux range from each other and if they are alternating.  Which means we can pick the direction of current on exit.

------>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXt78KfV8RU

Regarding this.  I used the data to figure out exactly what kind of wave pattern we need per 1 full rotation in order to find a neutral point where there is at least 1 place where pulling power can possibly help the rotor go. 

The results are stupid..  Alternating polarity magnets evenly, no possible way...  1 revolution needs to end on a half sine wave.  If 1 revolution ends on a full wave, 100% rotor drag every step of the way.

Best chance is Adams motor style.  All same polarity.   

"NOTE-  This info depends on where / if there are polarity flips on all same pole rotors.  I can happily send videos of scope shots of the action is one wants to evaluate

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2022, 04:28:47 AM »
4 same polarity coil.....   (adams style)...   Where is the drag? ???  All drag must be neutralized in it...

Picture it..  all magnets are same polarity..  So the coil can be ANY polarity and no drag..

I can see only 1 possible way there can be drag-  if coil polarity flips exactly between magnets.
Thanks again Floor...


As far as the quote, what do you mean? There is plenty of drag in an adams motor. I think you are referring to the back emf caused by Lenz law? If so, the polarity of the magnet does not matter, as well as if they are are the same pole. The magnetic field created by the current induced in the coil will always work against what ever polarity of magnet induces it. (Unless of course we find something special)


As far as not being able to see all the poles on the scope when the magnets alternate, I thin what you are seeing is them working together. The magnetic fields are directed at each other and creating virtual poles, I think you could call it. Bedini spoke of it often. But if you think about it, all the same polarity, the fields are forced into their own area per say. So each pole is more defined. That's at least what I think you could be seeing.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2022, 04:44:24 AM »
Thanks again Floor...


As far as the quote, what do you mean? There is plenty of drag in an adams motor.

Please explain.  See pic below. 

rotor passes coil:  (assume all magnet polarity are positive)

if polarity of coil is + (pos) between magnets -  Kicks one magnet forward- kicks the other back. =  Neutral

if polarity of coil is - (neg) between magnets -  attracts trailing magnet in - holds leading magnet back. =  Neutral

Every position of the rotor- there is another same pole magnet coming in / going out neutralizing evenly.

In this unique case, opposing any rotor magnet is helping the next one because the next one is the same polarity also.. 

EXCEPT-  if polarity flips exactly between magnets.

If I am wrong- please explain.