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Author Topic: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.  (Read 9121 times)

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2022, 05:38:42 PM »
The reason I am investigating this so closely is because the ramifications are huge..

It is assumed there is no point in the generation process where the flux from the coil helps the rotor.  It's "Always" opposing the rotation.

But if my theory is correct, there may be a brief window where the flux is helping the rotor.  And the main drag not happening exactly at the places we assume.

If correct, the windows of collection will be small and difficult to catch.  Hall sensors or reed switches would ne near impossible to time in so exact.  So I will use infrared sensors.

With my round magnets and current rotor design, my windows of collection would be at the holes in my attached timing wheel.  Avoiding collection during dead center alignment and also avoiding all sections that would induce drag.

I may be totally wrong...  but I have to try!

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2022, 05:50:40 PM »
Yeah, it's there. Take another look. The peak is on both sides as it should be. Can you see what I am talking about?

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2022, 06:08:42 PM »
Yeah, it's there. Take another look. The peak is on both sides as it should be. Can you see what I am talking about?

Yes, I considered that..   I have a working theory on that also.  But first, please explain the wave count.

4 magnets / 1 coil.  2 complete sinewaves in 1 rotation.


Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2022, 06:43:38 PM »
Is it a coil pair? Because there is only 2 full cycles. Where are your probes attached? You can test that by adding a magnet to the next rotor magnet as well... NOT across. Right next to it. And see if ALL have the added peak.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2022, 06:47:30 PM »
Is it a coil pair? Because there is only 2 full cycles. Where are your probes attached? You can test that by adding a magnet to the next rotor magnet as well... NOT across. Right next to it. And see if ALL have the added peak.

1 coil only.  4 alternating polarity magnets.  Scope clipped on to the coil leads.

I got the motor apart to add my next pieces. I will do your test soon

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2022, 06:55:36 PM »
He explains it pretty well here. Skip to around 8 minutes. Also again around 19 minutes he is swinging a magnet on a pendulum. He shows the parallel coil as well. But keep watching because he explains things really well after 22 minutes or so that may help a lot.
https://youtu.be/H6H3RymQC7g

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2022, 07:53:34 PM »
He explains it pretty well here. Skip to around 8 minutes. Also again around 19 minutes he is swinging a magnet on a pendulum. He shows the parallel coil as well. But keep watching because he explains things really well after 22 minutes or so that may help a lot.
https://youtu.be/H6H3RymQC7g

Wonderful Video.  Especially this point at the attached image

In that configuration he says the poles are trying to align..  and the rotor creates current in only 1 way only.  Now imaging switching the coil off at exact timing.  This video may contain what I am seeking..  A way to align a coil to induce current in only 1 direction per pass.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2022, 08:49:01 PM »
I happen to have a test device of his same orientation.  (just smaller)  So I scoped it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YIC7rbscUk

I like!

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2022, 08:54:05 PM »
Yeah, it's not easy to wrap your mind around. But when you get the hang of it, that scope is an AWESOME tool to have. What helps me is I keep thinking to myself, it is the copper the current flows in, the magnetic field is changed with iron around it, bit it's still the turns of copper being cut by the field. It gets confusing. But it's kind of an "ah ha" moment when you finally get it, and realize what you can actually see now.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2022, 09:29:43 PM »
I happen to have a test device of his same orientation.  (just smaller)  So I scoped it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YIC7rbscUk

I like!
Awesome... look at you go!!! Keep playing. The more understanding of all of this we get, the better chance we can find a way to squeeze some advantage SOMEWHERE...

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2022, 09:31:30 PM »
I'm still a little confused on your earlier scope shots? There was only 2 cycles. Did you see if it was measured funny or something since you expected 4 cycles?

Offline citfta

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2022, 09:36:02 PM »

Floodrod.


Captainpecan is explaining it correctly.  Your magnets are so close to each other they are affecting the field of each other.  Make a rotor with only one magnet and then spin it past the coil and you will plainly see the sine wave if the end of the magnet passes the end of the coil.  Lenz force has nothing to do with the flipping of the flux in the coil.  Lenz force is the mechanical force necessary to generate the current being used by the load.  Here is a picture of a signal I generated by changing the orientation of the magnet so that one polarity of the magnet approaches the coil and then as the magnet leaves the coil the other end of the magnet with opposite polarity leaves the coil.  In other words a bar magnet with the side of the magnet moving past the coil.


Keep studying and learning.  I like to see someone new actually trying to learn on their own instead of just believing whatever someone tells them!


Carroll

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2022, 10:45:44 PM »
I'm still a little confused on your earlier scope shots? There was only 2 cycles. Did you see if it was measured funny or something since you expected 4 cycles?

I don't know..  It still seems possible to me,,,  See my test here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JuYJ-2TfVM
I can repeat it 1000;s of times. same result.

Center to center  = Current in 1 way..

The rotor alternates polarity.  So the 2 magnets lined up with the coils are both the same polarity. 

If the current is causing the coils to attract to the rotor as they leave, then that same current direction must be also attracting the next rotor magnet in.  (because my rotor magnets alternate). 

Maybe I am mixed up- but if it's attracting to the magnets that it's closest to, switch the coil during that 1/8th rotation so it only amps up the coil when that direction current will attract the next magnet and pull it in.


Offline captainpecan

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2022, 11:22:01 PM »
I see why that test showed you what it did and why it is confusing you. You are slowing it down and stopping in the middle of the coil each time. So you only see the 2nd half of the coil. That's why you are only seeing one polarity each time. You are pushing it away but slowing it on the way in. If you assume the peak is the center, it makes you only test half of the cycle. Don't assume that. I know it sounds true, but it isn't. You will see. You just have to step back and look at it different than you are. Turn it from before the coil to after it. One full pass. Not from center to center. You will then see both polarities with one pass.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Reciprocator Motor Idea.
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2022, 11:23:43 PM »
I have a theory why I am seeing this.  (my theories lol...)

your model is correct with 1 pole magnet.  But my rotor has alternating polarities.  And it happens to be lined up almost perfectly while one magnet is crossing the edge of the coil, the next opposite pole rotor magnet is crossing the other side on the way in. .  So the flipping we see with 1 magnet is not manifesting because I am neutralizing out the flip that happens with 1 pole entering and exiting.

Just a theory...