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Author Topic: Just another Don Smith thread  (Read 28193 times)

Offline pix

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #330 on: May 23, 2022, 09:57:42 PM »
Hi,
Explanation of Don Smith principle:
We have high Q  transformer. Primary, two secondaries cw and ccw connected in the middle. One secondary has capacitor connected to form resonant tank.
1. What would happen if no capacitor, both cw and ccw secondaries are the same number of winds? Nothing. On both of them the same and opposite emf is induced that cancells each other. Induced B field on secondaries cancels. No load on primary.
2. With capacitor- on secondary forming resonant tank  circuit energy accumulates and voltage rises, and is higher than on secondary without capacitor. Now we have voltage difference between both secondaries, current flows on both secondaries despite  both B fields cancels.  :)
Clever.


Cheers,
Pix


Offline Vortex 22

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #331 on: May 23, 2022, 10:25:26 PM »
Ok,
You have good result with this setup? Or it's just a nice theory?
When the load change, how can we tune it? By variable capacitor?
Well, I have alternative interpretation based on work.
Good luck!
Regards

Offline Vortex 22

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #332 on: May 23, 2022, 10:47:43 PM »
I'm fully aware of north pole vs North pole / or South Pole vs South Pole!
But I should not force nature to do something opposite to''her'' will. We should not break nature Law!!

I need real power !
Something like 50 Watt input and 10kw or 20kw output

Sorry I don't like magnetic Toys like TPU or VTA !!!
Regards

Offline pix

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #333 on: May 23, 2022, 10:48:21 PM »
Ok,
You have good result with this setup? Or it's just a nice theory?
When the load change, how can we tune it? By variable capacitor?
Well, I have alternative interpretation based on work.
Good luck!
Regards


It is my nice theory, that I am going to put into test. :)


Cheers,
pix


Offline nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #334 on: May 23, 2022, 10:59:25 PM »
Few small corrections pix...

When we talk of Don's table top device/s.

Nothing high Q there, few turns, no core.

Q = 1/R * √(L/C)

"One secondary has capacitor connected to form resonant tank"

I added that cap there cause she did not draw it, but it is supposed to be there.
This circuit is exactly the same as another one, only difference is in this one
output is part of the bottom secondary path.

She promoted this misleading idea that cap is just across one secondary
and that resonance should be calculated for that one secondary only
and other one will magically resonate by itself. Of course, as Patrick Kelly
also correctly pointed out in his pdf, this is simply wrong, we have two
parallel inductors in parallel with a cap, in both circuits, this one and "basic".
Two parallel inductors have combined inductance of 1 inductor assuming
perfect magnetic coupling, since they are weakly coupled (being few cm apart)
overall inductance is less than 1 of them alone. Their magnetic fields
are of course in same direction.

It is not nonsensical to think of one secondary as resonator and another
as pickup but then you need to introduce an impedance change between
them, you do not want other (bottom) secondary participating in resonance.
If it does, of course, it will drastically change the resonant frequency.
And from practice and my measurements, even with impedance change
other secondary STILL participates/changes the res. freq. If she got it
to work by resonating just one coil alone that was sheer luck cause
resonance is sooo easily affected by EVERYTHING, not to mention
other coil of same size in parallel.

"What would happen if no capacitor"

With no cap not much changes, ofc still opposite voltage across two coils
but that is still not an issue considering there are two paths. Upper one
would still resonate with it's own parasitic capacitance affected
by the presence of the other coil, as would the bottom one which is
in addition affected by the load (cause it passes through it).
Less capacitance means bigger Q and bigger resonant rise.
No, B fields do not cancel by any means.

"With capacitor.."

Voltage is not bigger with a cap. On the contrary, cap reduces the induced
voltage. We can look at the secondary as combination of series and parallel
RLC tank. Both voltage and current can experience a resonant rise and both
are proportional to Q and Q, as formula above shows, is REDUCED by capacitance.
And again, B fields do NOT cancel. They are in same direction, aiding.

Of course even this is simplification cause actual dynamics are complex.

Or to put it all in few words...

Magnetic fields do not cancel out in either case.

Capacitance drops Q and consequently the resonant voltage/current rise.

Offline Vortex 22

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #335 on: May 23, 2022, 11:07:32 PM »

It is my nice theory, that I am going to put into test. :)


Cheers,
pix
Good luck
But you must be careful? Ok because high voltage is very dangerous 
Test only small version on low voltage

Offline pix

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #336 on: May 23, 2022, 11:16:30 PM »
I'm fully aware of north pole vs North pole / or South Pole vs South Pole!
But I should not force nature to do something opposite to''her'' will. We should not break nature Law!!

I need real power !
Something like 50 Watt input and 10kw or 20kw output

Sorry I don't like magnetic Toys like TPU or VTA !!!
Regards
Very high expectations. COP 200-400 :o
I think, and this is only my opinion, we could only follow the way of a heat pump analogy. Where a large amount of "free" low temperature heat from ambient air is compressed to smaller amount of high temperature useable heat. Such a heat pump COP may be up to 5,depending from refrigerant used.
In electromagnetics heat pump analogy is a resonant circuit. It accumulates low energy flow and compresses it to high energy. Like a Tesla coil does.
In Don Smith concept , in my opinion he uses a clever trick to create dipole ( emf difference in a cw/ccw secondaries) without B field acting back to primary. Nobody pays attention to C2. How could you get any voltage from cw/ccw secondaries? They cancels in normal operation producing no voltage whatsoever. If you add to one secondary a capacitor, forming resonant tank- situation changes.
Of course it is my theory from today.
It stays theory untill I will test it.


Cheers,
Pix




Offline Vortex 22

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #337 on: May 23, 2022, 11:28:25 PM »
Will repeat my question

1) is it possible for the Capacitor on the primary transformer be rated on 4000 volts DC but it's powered by 9000 volts ac /35.1 kHz.
That capacitor should smoke!!! But this is not how supposedly works!!!

Offline pix

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #338 on: May 24, 2022, 10:44:05 AM »
Will repeat my question

1) is it possible for the Capacitor on the primary transformer be rated on 4000 volts DC but it's powered by 9000 volts ac /35.1 kHz.
That capacitor should smoke!!! But this is not how supposedly works!!!
I see a diodes on the output from neon transformer. Then output voltage on the capacitor should be half of 9000V.
And, there are two capacitors. They may be connected in series.


Cheers,
Pix

Offline nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #339 on: May 24, 2022, 11:13:57 AM »
For the clown who accused me of not building
just a little snippet with old cellphone cam

Offline Vortex 22

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #340 on: May 24, 2022, 06:53:31 PM »
Ok.....I don't care.....You people aren't dealing with the proper energy, and don't seem to even want to familiarize yourselves with it. By all means keep doing what you're doing, maybe you will slip and fall onto the path I'm on, if you're lucky, or you won't if you're unlucky.

Offline nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #341 on: May 24, 2022, 07:56:18 PM »
One does not get lucky or unlucky in these things. DEEP thorough understanding is a result of relentless seeking. You known not the treasures of the hail (cold).

Offline tomd

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #342 on: May 24, 2022, 10:04:29 PM »
Ok.....I don't care.....You people aren't dealing with the proper energy, and don't seem to even want to familiarize yourselves with it. By all means keep doing what you're doing, maybe you will slip and fall onto the path I'm on, if you're lucky, or you won't if you're unlucky.

Well you mentioned the path is the fields. Electric fields, magnetic fields, aether fields (tesla waves), the fields of Joe cellery? It's probably the latter two as they are unconventional. More bones would be good. I don't know about other people but at the moment I only have limited time I can dedicate to this.





Offline pix

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #343 on: May 25, 2022, 09:37:24 AM »
Will repeat my question

1) is it possible for the Capacitor on the primary transformer be rated on 4000 volts DC but it's powered by 9000 volts ac /35.1 kHz.
That capacitor should smoke!!! But this is not how supposedly works!!!
9000V peak to peak is now 4500V.


Offline nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #344 on: May 25, 2022, 12:01:36 PM »
Notice how pix never replied to me, some people are butthurt when corrected
and every single statement in his 'theory' is diametrically opposite to reality.

So one can just ignore such people and let them talk nonsense (as most
do and then we got a forum where 99,9% is junk), or one can put in effort
to untangle their mess and what will be the result, they will either ignore you
or attack you, NEVER will they thank you for clarification. Ofc not all are like
that. Back in the day this forum had some decency. That's why in my opinion
pre 2010 threads are the best.