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Author Topic: Just another Don Smith thread  (Read 14415 times)

Online nix85

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Just another Don Smith thread
« on: April 11, 2022, 04:54:51 PM »
Lately i've been playing with Don Smith device, in particular Zilano's step down version. If anyone doesn't know she allegedly succeeded back in 2011 after 6 months of trying, first 2.5kW and after additional tuning 10kW.

You don't have to read all this, you can skip to the bold part for the key points.

I read all there is to read from her, it's all backed up online in pdfs. She built her own NST output around 4kV, 30mA at circa 30-35KHz. Her basic circuit is shown below, and another circuit with one secondary shorted.

She used 80 turn primary and 2x 5 turn bucking secondary which she wrongly calls bifilar with middle point grounded. Secondary wire is twice the diameter of the primary, it is 4 times shorter and they have similar weight of copper.

She is using parallel sparkgap in both primary and secondary. As one user complained in the original thread at energetic forum trying to replicate her, he was unable to get the sparkgap to fire when in parallel as do i. She of course told him flyback output must be tuned to primary, well, i did this no avail.

More on tuning soon. First i wanna say i first ordered an expensive permalloy core from China just to find out it is totally useless, my aircore primary resonated at about 10MHz, with this supposed 50,000+ permeability it resonated at 11MHz, WORSE than air.. thankfully they returned the money after much effort and multiple videos proving this.

Then i got 5kg of steel welding rods Zila suggested as cheap substitute for ferrite, thankfully this was cheap but it was also worse than air, no effect on resonance at all. All this time i had some cheap ferrite rods i tested which i saw did work so i ordered a bunch of those and with them got my primary to resonate around 34KHz.

Now the tuning, this gets complicated. I used a big 25cm wide 5 turn bucking secondary. It was relatively easy to get the one of the two secondaries (the right one which is wound in opposite way to the other and the primary) to resonate around same freq. As Zila recommended "measure L2 inductances individually and put a cap across one of them"...well, they are actually in parallel so this never made much sense, one must look at them as part of one LC tank.

So i am testing all this by hitting the coil with a 24V DC spark (actually 30V pulsed dc half sine) and measuring it with cursors on the scope. Not to mention i would not recommend this to anyone, you often have to hit it like 10-20 times to get a nice damped sine, i exposed myself to significant sparkgap radiation last few weeks, i am sensitive to cellphones and this is like putting your head in a microwave. I said enough with spark gaps no matter what altho you have to use this method, more on that later.

And of course when i shorted the secondary as it would be with a sparkgap, resonant freq. rose few khz cleary they are reducing each others inductance. Anyway this is not important since you won't excite the secondary directly but with induction, so their magnetic fields are aiding.

The key point is... i then realized closing the primary with a cap or shorting it changes the resonant freq. of the secondary and vice versa.

So i hit the wall here. Basically they drop each other's resonance by few khz. You tune one of them just to find you just untuned the other one. So this is combined resonance, i googled it and there is very little on this. Maybe it's not an issue in ordinary Tesla Coil where secondary is open, altho they do mention sparks reduce it's res freq about 10% but i see no mention of it affecting the res freq of the primary. Well, i can see it changes on the scope.

But when i hit the primary with 24v DC and i watch pri and sec simultaneously on the scope they fire at same frequency and in phase. Again, this is NOT the same frequency they resonate at when i test either of them by themselves (with other one open) but few khz off.

I also constructed a nice spark gap box with two large supposed zinc (obviously not since it's magnetic) bolts with graphite block in between (inspired by William Alek).

I got 12 turns on the flyback, i found a flyback with no caps in the secondary so output is pretty decent pulsed DC thick spark. It naturally fires at around 43KHz unless loaded with 101KOhm of resistors which drops it's resonance for about 10Khz.

So i put few 10nF caps on the ZVS to lower the flyback resonance about 32KHz for the pri and tested. Spark gap firest at about 5-7mm, around 10mm when air is ionized, so let's say 10kV more less. And all i get on secondary from this is measly 30V or something. If i put spark gap in parallel, as said before, then i get no spark at all.

I got a long thick ground cable.

After few days of playing with this mess i got sick and tired of it, i dismounted the big secondary and replaced with with another coil i made before, same 16mmˇ2  wire but more turns, around 38-39, all in same direction, wound close to the same 110 turn primary with 9nF cap.

So here is more quirkiness. With pri and sec closed with their respective caps, 9 and 10nF, when i hit the primary with 24V they both resonated quite strongly, primary 500V and secondary 100V damped wave at 36.2Khz, but when i put function generator on the primary (secondary still closed with it's cap, nothing changed) it resonates best at 1.2MHz around 3V with function gen outputting max 7V, at 36KHz nothing like 80mV. Now understand THAT.

Don't get me wrong, i have no doubt Don Smith and similar devices are real but this stuff is delicate and there are intricacies no one talks about like this combined resonance thing and should we chase the combined resonance or the individual resonance (does not make much sense but this is how Zila allegedly did it).

I know successful replications are EXTREMELY rare, but has anyone had any success with Don Smith or variation of?

Offline whitelightningwizard

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2022, 12:53:08 AM »
Hi Nix,

This is my first post, but YES I've built successful Zilano/Don replications. Her circuits are the real deal I can tell you.

Your spark gap in parallel will fire, just think of spark gap as a variable capacitor: u must move plates/electrodes together or apart.
Bring ur electrodes together closer, it will fire. If not, use higher NST voltage. everybody has (slightly) different air to break thru depending on ur location.

Zilano gave away Don's best secrets and its incredible to me nobody besides drak posted Zilano replications cuz she explicited everything.
u r doing great work, keep it up. there is light at the end of the tunnel.

cheers

Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 10:35:23 PM »
Hi Nix,

This is my first post, but YES I've built successful Zilano/Don replications. Her circuits are the real deal I can tell you.

Hi and welcome :) Of course Zilano's circuits are real deal, i know that very very well, well at least the two i posted above, she posted many circuits of which many are scribbles over other people's circuits she probably never even tried.

You claim you built a successful replication, maybe you did, i'm not gonna ask you to confirm that but since you're coming out with a claim you might've as well backed it up with a video (like the one i link below). Anyone can do it with enough persistence.

In any case you got the wrong impression which is not surprising cause that is how post was written, you of course had no way of knowing i was not really looking for another confirmation of success, i have TONS of those. I just wanted to share here what i'm at, i finished with "did anyone have success" not really asking, i just wrote it for no reason, knowing almost certainly no one will say "yea, i did". I if i relied on forum members to tell me it is possible i would've given up a long ago. You had no way of knowing, of course.

There are dozens of resonant solid state successes in my overunity playlist 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS6CmWwu5VGmYsgX5-2kFtPsE-iIsXj_o

I intentionally said she "allegedly succeeded" altho i KNOW she succeeded 1 zillion % cause in my opinion more than enough info and "inspiration" is already out there (for those with eyes to see) and there is no need to shout from the roofs or try to convince anyone it's possible.

Quote
Your spark gap in parallel will fire, just think of spark gap as a variable capacitor: u must move plates/electrodes together or apart.
Bring ur electrodes together closer, it will fire. If not, use higher NST voltage. everybody has (slightly) different air to break thru depending on ur location.

I am using flyback not NST and, like i said, i got an adjustable spark gap, already testing various distances, but not to get the parallel spark gap to fire but to get the optimal firing frequency (did that yesterday)..

There is no need for parallel sg, that is just another of Zilano's (non-intended) misinformations. Just like her claim that you "must" use two different grounds, not to mention technical flaws i already listed at energetic forum

http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/energetic-forum-discussion/renewable-energy/5012-donald-smith-devices-too-good-to-be-true?p=507286#post507286

I opted for series spark gap cause i prefer it that way and there are more than enough Smith-like devices that work with series spark gap like chubinidze and successful replications of him like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vGP5-qacAY etc.

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Zilano gave away Don's best secrets and its incredible to me nobody besides drak posted Zilano replications cuz she explicited everything.

As far as i know drak did not post a successful replication. In any case, Zilano (contrary to her claim) did not give away any "Don's secret", only new idea (or is it) that came from her is the idea of reverse Don Smith, that is, reverse Tesla coil...which is not needed at all but makes things simpler at the output.

Zilano deserves every respect for her passion for this ​(especially as a girl/woman), her persistence and willingness to "give back" (at energetic forum) as she said.... but she just assembled a bunch of stuff that was already known and that is no secret. Her greatest contribution is another confirmation of success, one of MANY (and BOI there are MANY).

All this was known for a VERY long time. Read this pdf from 2006

http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf

Read posts from bolt https://overunity.com/9521/magnacoaster-vorktex/30/

All this goes way back before Zilano and these principles of resonant/reactive-radiant-siphoning/sinking were known since time of Daniel Cook, we are talking 150 to 170 years ago (not to mention the secret orders who ALWAYS had this knowledge since sinking of Poseida..)

It's just very delicate so people dismiss it as "too hard to get" and most don't even try or give up quickly. For me it was never an option to give up, i have infinite persistence not only for this but for gravity control and this is but a step to my main goal.

Quote
u r doing great work, keep it up. there is light at the end of the tunnel.

cheers

:) I know very well i'am doing well and have never for a nanosecond considered giving up, but i appreciate your attempt to "help" :) you could've not known better (we'll see if you'll back up your claim or it will be just another claim with no substance to it).

I further improved my setup and it's now way ahead of where it was in time of writing the above post. Addition of non-inductive coil, sliding ferrite core, much increased primary capacitance (almost 1/4 uF capable of 20kV)......

Again, i appreciate your well intention, but there is no tunnel, there is only light.

Cheers

Offline whitelightningwizard

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2022, 02:01:10 AM »
well u asked if any1 had success with Don and I decided to answer. No worries, there was an “attempt” to assist.

It seemed to me u were asking for nuance detail of tuning multiple resonant coils & couldn't get parallel sg to work.
So I suggest to u now try Zilano’s simple copper pipe version circuit. u will get results much faster and tuning is far simpler.

Don did say the ppl who replicated his circuits were Ham Radio operators. hint.

but it sounds like my suggestions not needed here.
If there’s no tunnel then u already got it, so congrats!

Cheers

Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2022, 02:50:49 AM »
No worries ofc, i know you had good intentions.

Nothing to back up of your claim of success, why am i not surprised :)

I wasn't asking for anything and i don't care about the parallel sg cause it's not needed, i just said i noticed the combined resonance issue, resonance of coils being affected by the other. Guy says it in the video below

"some people remove the primary while still in the secondary as that can also affect things I find it to be negligible though altering by one and a half kilohertz at the most"

https://youtu.be/Euy2U92I8e4?t=62

But if one is much narrower than the other and thus "sees" the core much less its resonant freq. is barely affected by the core if at all, by sliding the core one can find a sweet spot where they ring. So tuning is not an issue.

By Zila's simple copper tube circuit i assume you mean the one below. There is no tuning in this circuit at all. She just fired DC pulses from NST. I tried that one quickly for fun the other day with steel tube cause i don't have a copper one, bulb did not light at all, even when i added a neodymium. I like that one cause it reminds me of Markovich ATREE but it's too simplistic. Tubes are essential when it comes to polarizing etheric streams gravity-control related, but for resonant-radiant-sink they are not needed at all.

I would not be surprised if most people who replicated Don were HAMs, but then again, there is absolutely no need to be one to do it, of course, knowledge of impedance matching, standing waves, velocity factor etc.... all may come handy especially if you use the air core and resonate in hundreds of MHz region instead of ~30KHz.

The other day i got quite high voltage on the secondary and got to light the 200W bulb to i'd say about 40W, approximately the same as ZVS is using. So tuning was not perfect and there were some things missing. I am now at totally different setup.

Nice touch of subtle sarcasm there, indeed there is only light.

Still waiting to see your "success" video :)

Cheers


Offline whitelightningwizard

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2022, 03:31:50 PM »
yup that's the one. use copper not steel. no neo required.

like zilano said videos can and are faked all the time. am not asking u or any1 to believe me from my word.
ppl just put an induction coil under the table and feed power from somewhere else making it look OU.

there is tuning in that device, b/c we are firing a pulse of DC thru sg setting 50turn coil into AC oscillation. there is always tuning when u have a sg going into an LC tank. think of copper tube as single turn step-down and pri always has parasitic c making it L+C both.

zilano said u need spark gap and resonance both to have OU and I have verified. u need a negative resistance to gain, and resonance maintained so impedance is zero (or infinite), so the energy gained is not lost.

I use parallel spark gap sometimes, b/c I use NST and AV plug to charge cap and use single capacitor discharge. the aim is to short ur primary LC so when spark is off it oscillates at its resonant freq. this is Don basic and its how u get HF AC from spark discharge which is pulsed DC.

u r right LIGHT is everything. Tesla and Walter Russell said this too. I follow Walter Russell and can control gravity, once u know what it is.

Cheers

Offline forest

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2022, 07:11:48 PM »
can you make circuit so when you rub coil with screewdriver it will show bright sparks ?
can you do that using miliamps from primary side and no diode ?
I saw a replication from China doind this, I consider this first step


Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2022, 07:22:03 PM »
yup that's the one. use copper not steel. no neo required.

:) No one asked you for "instructions". I said i am going with multi coil, ferrite core rather than that simplistic setup. But since you insist on it, feel free to say what you (supposedly) got out of it.

Steel is as good if not better than copper when it comes to directing etheric streams. Of course neo is not needed since it was not needed in ATREE.

Quote
like zilano said videos can and are faked all the time. am not asking u or any1 to believe me from my word.

ppl just put an induction coil under the table and feed power from somewhere else making it look OU.

"Zilano said" :) We all know there are fake videos. Fakes are easy to spot, just from a thumbnail, not to mention opening the video. Like said before, there are dozens of real resonant OU devices in the playlist i linked.

As for believing you, i do not believe nor disbelieve you, you are making a claim of replicating Zilano, no technical info whatsoever, what is the output you claim to have...Zila shared many cirucits, like i said, most of which are badly drawn scribbles over other people's schematics, pdf attached below.

Quote
there is tuning in that device, b/c we are firing a pulse of DC thru sg setting 50turn coil into AC oscillation. there is always tuning when u have a sg going into a LC tank. think of copper tube as single turn step-down and pri always has parasitic c making it L+C both.

No there is not, of course, you can "tune" it in various ways if you want, but Zila did not suggest it and i don't see her anywhere even mention this setup or elaborate on it.

Imagine, discharging a DC pulse into a coil makes it ring at it's natural resonant frequency, who would say.. Imagine coil has parasitic capacitance and is an LC tank.. Fantastic revelations :)

And no, you cannot observe the tube as a single turn coil, it can rather be observed as a long hollow wire, which will of course, have certain small inductance and capacitance as everything has. Also, assuming that coil has 50 turns as you say, wound on a hollow tube, it's resonant freq. would be way up, probably in MHz region, while NST or flyback fire at "measly" few dozen KHz, hopefully you can understand this means coil rings literally thousands of times per every DC impulse.

Like i said this setup reminds me of Markovich ATREE and tube is not there to serve as single turn step down coil, but to provide a difference in length of path etheric energy passes through the tube versus the path through the coil which establishes a potential difference between the two top and bottom which is then used to induce ordinary electricity in the second coil.
 
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zilano said u need spark gap and resonance both to have OU and I have verified.

Another Zilano's (non-intended) misinformation you recite blindly. As Don Smith said spark gap is not needed. He said this in 95 or 96 lecture and also wrote it in the group in circa 2006. Quote

"spark gaps and lightening arrestors, spark plugs included when I use them are not used as a or frequency or device timing. I use them for spike, overload and lightning protection"

You are making a claim, but your knowledge in the field is clearly limited and in certain aspects flawed.

Also, altho resonance is the leading concept in the OU field, many OU devices work totally not based on resonance whatsoever. So, technically, you do NOT "need it".

Quote
u need a negative resistance to gain, and resonance maintained so impedance is zero (or infinite), so the energy gained is not lost.

Again you are blindly quoting Zila without understanding what you are saying. Of course, literal negative resistance is not needed for OU. We are talking about NEGTROPIC (negative entropy) effects in resonant coils acting as sinks for the ambient energy which APPEARS as negative resistor, this does NOT mean coil becomes literally superconductive, most of these devices dissipate heat according to P = I²R, only in certain far more rare conditions as in Floyd Sweet's device when max power (1kW) was drawn wires froze and device lost all weight, this is when device becomes fully charged with cold electricity, but in usual conversion, that is, etheric step down converters, there is no superconductivity nor negative resistance. Zila recited many things she just read online without giving much thought to it and you recite her literally without discernment.

Quote
I use parallel spark gap sometimes, b/c I use NST and AV plug to charge cap and use single capacitor discharge.

Again, there is no need for parallel sg, stop blindly following what Zila said. Try to use your own intelligence.

Quote
the aim is to short ur primary LC so when spark is off it oscillates at its resonant freq. this is Don basic and its how u get HF AC from spark discharge which is pulsed DC.

:) Imagine, charge a cap until sg breaks down and LC tank rings at it's resonant (usually) high frequency...who would say, never mind that this is the very basics how a Tesla coil works (be it with series cap and parallel sg (usual method, hv hf does not impinge on the transformer feeding the cap) or series sg and parallel cap (hv hf DOES impinge on the transformer feeding the cap and must be protected by a diode or other means). This is the basis of Tesla coil and SOME of DS and DS-based devices and this was already shown and is perfectly assumed.

Quote
u r right LIGHT is everything. Tesla and Walter Russell said this too. I follow Walter Russell and can control gravity, once u know what it is.

Cheers

My my, you read Tesla and Russel and you think you understood gravity. Here, i'll give you my shortened, simplified summary on this matter so you can start to get the real insight of what gravity is and methods of control of it.

https://vril12.wordpress.com/

You can control gravity you say :) I bet you were levitating while you wrote this :)

And then you fell off bed and woke up :)

Cheers

Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2022, 07:37:08 PM »
forest you are referring to saltycitrus replication, it was actually a group of people in China who replicated Don. Salty said adjusting the phase was the key to their success, presumably he meant delayed lenz. He used both secondaries in same direction proving there is no need for CW CCW. There is more on it in PJ Kelly's book. Here is the vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cni08WjLTcc

Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2022, 08:34:24 PM »
May i also remind everyone that Don revealed in 96 lecture i think that his famous table top device is already obsolete and that he managed to make a device size of match box based on same principles with no coils, no caps, no electronic components at all, capable of "hundreds of thousands of volts and high amps".

So few of these matchboxes could power whole cities.

Now that is something special. I would bet it was carbon with nanolayers of some exotic (or non exotic) elements, probably "baked" in superstrong magnetic/electric field. God knows.

Offline hope-hope

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2022, 09:28:59 PM »

hello everyone

it's a big mistake to stick with ZIlano philosophy regarding the Don Smith device ... the induction used in his device is really special ..

regards 

Offline Thomramzes

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2022, 09:45:26 PM »
You're so cool

Offline tomd

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2022, 10:09:47 PM »
hello everyone

it's a big mistake to stick with ZIlano philosophy regarding the Don Smith device ... the induction used in his device is really special ..

regards

Magnetic induction, electrostatic induction. Then there's the longitudinal or scalar waves as a result of a disruptive discharge. Is it electrostatic induction?

Offline whitelightningwizard

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2022, 10:10:30 PM »
i think zilano has good philosophy. she gave away a solution for free!

zilano did give explanation of copper pipe device she said: "1 feet tube 16awg wire nst 4kv 12 v diodes in series in 4007 (5 diodes) 50 turns. 1 inch diameter tube. yes one wire to coil after diode and one attaches to copper tube. its an open system. if u input 1 watt u may get 25- 50 watts out."

open system is key. practically everybody uses closed circuit primary, even Don. waste of energy at the start of the circuit. I don't do it that way. I used my intelligence, as u said to do.

I have replicated from 250W to 2kW out. working on a 7.5kW home unit and other projects.

everybody gets BBQ'd for making claims on here, so back to the silence for me. I really did have the best intentions in sharing.

Best of luck to all
cheers

Online nix85

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Re: Just another Don Smith thread
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2022, 11:15:54 PM »
Zilano has good philosophy of course, she made small mistakes here and there but overall did a great job.

I don't think i saw that paragraph from her, maybe i did long time ago. 1W in is tiny input, i guess she meant 25x increase in whatever you put in. I have the part where she talks about tesla coil on a tube inside another tube for production of scalar waves but that is another setup and there are much better methods for that.

Open system is key but i would not agree Don's primary is not "open". Everything is really an open system, a circuit at resonance is "open", a circuit containing a sg is "open", even non resonant circuit with no sg, just collecting BACKEMF can be "open"... of course open meaning allowing ambient E to flow in.

Good for you, 250W is quite big input but who cares. Don usually used much less input, as you probably know. For example he said for his 55KHz strangely wound transformer device, "a MEG before MEG", that input was about 12W and output around 10kW. On Yahoo group in 2006 he said that using 3 resonant Tesla pancakes with 14 watt input he literally melted the diode bridge rated at 20,000V and 200A etc. So Don was basically using high Q extremely high reactive power, very low input, altho for his tabletop device Q was surely low, no core, small number of turns, and yet it worked great, so high Q is not essential, in any case, we cannot say his circuits are closed in any way.

Best luck to you too