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Author Topic: Energy Generation by moving Mag Field through Static Steel Core & Copper Coils  (Read 4324 times)

Offline Ufopolitics

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Hello,




I have moved to a 20 tooth armature due to the lack of room to do more windings on the 12 tooth...I will have to change it to a finer gauge (33) to obtain the right resistance required to drive field at higher voltages and lower amperages...so, actually I am working on three setups at the time.


This armature came off a BOSCH 700W PM Motor, I have two of them, one is completely wound with "Asymmetrical Type" and this one was already stripped off all windings...


I made it fit inside the stator of an AC (Central Air Conditioning) Blower Motor, 3 speeds by Die Grinding the interior Stator metal...lot of work!!


The way I wound the Armature is the same way as I did the 12T previously shown, but adapted now to a 20 T.




It is basically 8 pair of coils, wound with 28 gauge and like 100 turns each coil, which will give me like 4.2+ Ohms per coil


Thanks to this ratio, I can drive the Magnetic Field with 60V and like one (1) Amp...at idle RPM's (not going 3600) but like 1500-1800


I am attaching some images of the whole thing already assembled.




Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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WINDING 16 COILS INTO A 20 TOOTH ARMATURE

I am attaching the winding plan here...as the wiring sequence to 16 elements commutator


I am also making a video, of different steps on the winding, that I took while I was winding the armature in different steps to final.


First, I started by the Two Pairs of Blue Coils (1-2) and (9-10) exactly apart by 180º.
All Coils are wound Clockwise (CW) when facing at me...

I am using 28 gauge, around 57 feet which comes up to around 100 turns and extending to four(4) tooth on armature.


The last Pair of coils would be 15-16 and 7-8 also at 180 degrees apart, where the end of coil number 16 will attach to start of coil number one (1) and the end of coil number eight [8] will attach to start of coil number one (1)


This way the full loop of all coils will be closed.


Cheers


Ufopolitics
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 04:04:48 PM by Ufopolitics »

Offline Cadman

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Thinking about generating with a rotating field of the armature. There are two magnetic fields involved with the armature, the iron and the coils. Each field begins and ends with it’s source and taken together they have the effect of a single field. But this new scenario is different than the usual inducer which uses a fully established combined field at all times, only changing with the load.

In this new scenario the iron field is almost constant but the coil fields all expand, contract, change polarity, expand and contract every revolution. Rotating at a rate that produces the strongest field for the coils time constants (5) would give an averaged over time field strength which would be much less than the maximum continuous field. Rotating faster using fewer time constants would result in a weaker coil field, less amperage on the input and in turn a weaker iron field and the output watts would drop accordingly.

If this is accurate, then common sense would indicate the need for design changes to compensate. Coils with small time constants and more turns to achieve the needed ampere turns, which would need a larger armature with more iron to produce an output comparable to a motored generator.

Small time constants and more turns is counter intuitive but can be achieved with multiple windings in parallel for each coil. But that costs more input amperage. Lots to balance.

Just some thoughts for consideration.

Regards
Cadman

Offline Ufopolitics

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Thinking about generating with a rotating field of the armature. There are two magnetic fields involved with the armature, the iron and the coils. Each field begins and ends with it’s source and taken together they have the effect of a single field. But this new scenario is different than the usual inducer which uses a fully established combined field at all times, only changing with the load.


Hello Cadman,

And many thanks for your input, it is always welcomed.

Ok, I would say first that I love this type of debate...however, I disagree with you on part of the above...

As I only see one Field, IMHO, the iron core serves as the "vehicle" or saying it more "Scientific"...the "Medium" where the Field moves, flows.
With a steel core (design) we could redirect a Field displacement polarity, change its angle, and even fraction it (dividing Field) into multiple poles, like is the case with the automobile Alternator...However, it is the same exact Field that is generated by the coil that runs parallel to the alternator shaft...

If you get a permanent magnet and approach a piece of steel at very close gap...you will observe very clearly -through a simple viewing film- that the Magnet Field literally "jumps" about half of its spectrum spatial embodiment into the iron piece...Now, that does not means that the iron now have its own field.
The iron piece just served as the "appropiate vehicle" where the field Mutates to...partially, though.

The above is the main principle of Induction, my friend...and remember that Magnetic Fields are purely Directional, like a Laser Beam, coming off the very center of each of their poles face.

In this new scenario the iron field is almost constant but the coil fields all expand, contract, change polarity, expand and contract every revolution. Rotating at a rate that produces the strongest field for the coils time constants (5) would give an averaged over time field strength which would be much less than the maximum continuous field. Rotating faster using fewer time constants would result in a weaker coil field, less amperage on the input and in turn a weaker iron field and the output watts would drop accordingly.

You have just nailed it, on the above bold statement, by me!!

And that bolts down to what Pierre Cotnoir was saying about the Field "Resolution"...or in detail, that these systems work much better with a "Higher Resolution Field".
Which means higher number of coils, and since they are all in series, we could afford lower number of turns per coil...lower resistance, that of course, would need to be calculated.

For example, in a 36 Coils Armature we would be moving the Field at a ratio of 10º for each two coils that reverse, exactly at 180º...
Remember, in this setup, one coil would be leaving South to become North, and exactly at 180º, another coil would be entering South and leaving North...meaning the Field displaced exactly 10º towards the rotation sense.
If we break down the Pole number of Coils would be exactly 18, and using an angled four brushes, like I have recommended to narrow the Field Angle, would leave about two coils on each side inactive (just conducting), so, say in reality we will always have a minimum of 16X2 Coils always on, or 16 per pole.
That is a pretty good and higher resolution.

If this is accurate, then common sense would indicate the need for design changes to compensate. Coils with small time constants and more turns to achieve the needed ampere turns, which would need a larger armature with more iron to produce an output comparable to a motored generator.

Exactly...

Small time constants and more turns is counter intuitive but can be achieved with multiple windings in parallel for each coil. But that costs more input amperage. Lots to balance.

Just some thoughts for consideration.

Regards
Cadman

Yeap, and we do not want to rise the Input Amperage too much, but try to always drive it on the low side...however, always trying to keep the Field strong enough as to keep a constant and robust output.


Yes, lots to balance!!

Many thanks for your comments!!


Regards


Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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THE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRUE SINGULAR MAGNETIC FIELD VERSUS MULTIPLE SMALLER FIELDS OVERLAPPED TOGETHER.


Hello to All,

Regardless of the achievements, I am still NOT happy with the results...

The two circuits, representing the two polarities of individual coils in series, that configures one single field...still does not fully form a true singular field.
This is clearly noted when looking with magnetic viewing film, the fact that each independent coil have its own center wall, Bloch wall or Dielectric Field as Wheeler's Theory...point is, whatever the "name" we give to this clearly seen center line, that this should not happen, it does not happen in a Singular Magnetic Field.

A Singular Magnetic Field MUST have just ONE Center Wall...and, as we rotate field this wall should rotate as well...and this is not happening here.

Each Coil keeps its own Dielectric Field or Bloch Wall...and that's not good, it means we still have a fractioned Magnetic Field.

And this whole issue relates to a simple answer...GEOMETRY.

Say we build Two identical but separate Coils...and we could feed them with just one source...now, if we stack them N/S>N/S, perfectly aligned by a center imaginary axis, one on top of the other...they will form a single Bloch wall right at the joint between both, or where I set the "greater than" symbol (>).

However, once we start moving just one of the coils in a Radical Angle*...there is a point-angle where that common center wall will disappear...and return to two individual walls for each coil...

When these two Coils were aligned and just one center wall appeared, there was a Singular Field formed by the two coils.
Once this center, common wall is gone, the singular field is gone, that simple.

Now, we could project both coils aligning them with the same poles orientation, say both with North on top, next to each others, no matter if overlapped or not...and yes, we will have two North Poles but not a Singular North Field...as each coil would have its own division wall.

If we could measure Magnetic Field strength for both cases...will notice when they had a Common division wall, stock one on top of the other...that would be the strongest field strength than when set side by side, aiming separatedly independent poles...and most importantly to notice...with the same Source Input of same currents!!

Radical Angle*: The common wall will still be there for smooth, narrow angles...soft curvatures between both coils will still prevail the Singular Field.

It is not supposed that when rotating the Field at higher speeds, it just "fades off"...and Induction will decrease...so, we need to increase Input.

In my opinion, this is due to the lack of the system design, to form a TRUE SINGULAR FIELD from multiple coils arrangement.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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MAGNETIC VIEWING FILM, REVEALING MULTIPLE FIELDS WHILE ROTATION TAKING PLACE...

Here are a couple of pictures showing an "X-Ray View" from Magnetic Viewing Film, of coils during the rotation of the virtual field...


We observe a very slight, vague "rotation" around coils, which is based on the sequenced coils reversals...However, the center division lines for each coil still is there, not moving at all.


Resuming, this design, arrangement or geometry is NOT generating a True Singular Field...


I want to see a SINGULAR division wall for one singular field generated, and moving around as well as the field...this wall must be right at center of both field poles.


We need to be able to see this center line clearly moving along the right geometry, defining where our two poles are also moving...




Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

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Hi Ufo,
I know you and I disagree on how viewing film works and Bloch wall and you'll likely just make my post and opinion disappear, but  notice the similarities.

What appear as light fuzzy lines are caused by the flux coming from the end turns of the eight coils which you wound and not representative of the resultant field in the air gap.
bi


Offline Ufopolitics

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Hi Ufo,
I know you and I disagree on how viewing film works and Bloch wall and you'll likely just make my post and opinion disappear,

Hi  Bi,

Nope, You are wrong, I  will not make your post disappear... ;D


but  notice the similarities...
What appear as light fuzzy lines are caused by the flux coming from the end turns of the eight coils which you wound and not representative of the resultant field in the air gap.
bi

Nope, you are wrong again...I just made a short video to demonstrate how it is shown that center line by viewing film...exactly at the center of the coil
Actually, Viewing Film works on Three Dimensional Magnetic Fields, no matter if Field is Permanent or Momentary...like a coil...it will always, very precisely, detect the center division line.

COILS CENTER LINE REVEALED BY MAGNETIC VIEWING FILM

I mean, and I know you could say whatever you want...but a simple demo will show it is not on the "end turns" of the coil.

Magnets do not have "end turns" however, the film also shows the same , exact, center line, on a Permanent Magnet.

And what that line is showing, is not "flux" either.

You could make this simple test as well, and see it for yourself.

Take care

Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

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Hi  Bi,

Nope, You are wrong, I  will not make your post disappear... ;D

Nope, you are wrong again...I just made a short video to demonstrate how it is shown that center line by viewing film...exactly at the center of the coil
Actually, Viewing Film works on Three Dimensional Magnetic Fields, no matter if Field is Permanent or Momentary...like a coil...it will always, very precisely, detect the center division line.

COILS CENTER LINE REVEALED BY MAGNETIC VIEWING FILM

I mean, and I know you could say whatever you want...but a simple demo will show it is not on the "end turns" of the coil.

Magnets do not have "end turns" however, the film also shows the same , exact, center line, on a Permanent Magnet.

And what that line is showing, is not "flux" either.

You could make this simple test as well, and see it for yourself.

Take care

Ufopolitics

Thanks Ufo for not deleting me.
You have said it is the "main field", and I can't see how that is different than, magnetic field, resultant field, flux field, air gap field, or whatever term you call it, that is the issue, or object of this exercise. And that is referred to as the B vector field. As such, North and South poles, and some imaginary demarcation between the two, are irrelevant, in fact non-existent. Would you agree that a "main field", magnetic flux field, exists in the core shown below? Where is this "Bloch" wall?
edit. Image from: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/toroid.html
bi


Offline Ufopolitics

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Thanks Ufo for not deleting me.
You have said it is the "main field", and I can't see how's that is different than, magnetic field, resultant field, flux field, air gap field, or whatever term you call it, that is the issue, or object of this exercise. And that is referred to as the B vector field. As such, North and South poles, and some imaginary demarcation between the two, are irrelevant, in fact non-existent. Would you agree that a "main field", magnetic flux field, exists in the core shown below? Where is this "Bloch" wall?
edit. Image from: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/toroid.html
bi


Bistander,

No matter how much you twist or bend a coil...in any given shape, where you start winding to where you finish, in simple winding (no layers, no back and forth) like your image of the toroid shows, where current enters and where it leaves, right at the center from those two points (using the circumference-arc formula, since it is a circular geo) is where the center line would be...

Edit: Oh! and actually it  is not just a line, but a plane that goes across like a section of the given geometry...

Whenever I finish the winding of my Toroid, You and everyone would be able to see it...

It is irrelevant to start arguing about what or who this center line is...point is that it always exists in any given magnetic field, and the importance is that I will be using it as a reference to show rotation or displacement of the Field.

Therefore, I do not want to expand this debate at this point in time...so, please, let's leave it here.

Thanks for understanding


Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Hello to All,

I am in the process to wind a Toroid with 16 coils in series, 22.5º apart, to be driven by the same Rotary Switch...is a long process...

The Magnetic Field(s) would be rotating inside the Toroidal Steel Geometry...However, this particular setup will have Four Poles, or Two Magnetic Fields.

See image attached.

It is a simple way to wind it, one coil after the other one, all in series...but driven by each split joint to the switch.

Why did I changed -all the sudden- from one structure of a ¨Two Part¨ Generator with a "Stationary Rotor" to this type?

Because I want to be able to see the WHOLE Magnetic Field actually displacing...and I was not observing that...but the coils just "flashing" a rotation, while the Center line was "in situs"...Not good!!

And, so, I believe this fact, would not allow me to drive Field at higher speeds, without loosing it...loosing Inductance gain...

So...here I go...maybe a future TPU?...I don't know...tests will tell.

Here is a Short Video...showing Coil#1 and demonstrating where poles are, as well as the Center Line...

TOROID WINDING COIL#1




Cheers




Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Hello again...


I want to clarify that this "idea" to wind a Toroid did not just come "from thin air"...or as a guess...to shoot at different options, randomly...

There is a pretty large history about this idea, behind scenes...and now, since I already know how to do it right...(at least, I hope so) then I am going to make it happen!!

A Toroid is a very clever Geometry (related to Magnetic Fields), as this one I am working on is made of laminated steel...as any other Toroid Transformer is...

I actually have Three of these that I had ordered them a long while back...two smaller like the one shown on Video...plus another one much bigger.

Here is a Post that I wrote on another Thread, answering to a statement that Member Onepower made...but I want it here, to show all, where I am coming from...:

It's also important to note that to my knowledge no credible FE device ever used lap windings as is found in almost all motor/generators today.


Yes, you are very right AC...

The overlapping or lap winding is used to "save room", or to fit more wires per square area (referring to motors) and for generator coils it is overlapped to reach a higher number of conductors to be induced by the rotary sweeping inductor area.

Actually, did you ALL know that the only wires that are Induced on any Two Part Rotary Generator, even the stationary rotor type, we are working on...
that only the Vertical wires are Induced?!

Yes, and I am referring to the Vertical wires in ALL Coils on the Stator, the ones parallel to the shaft, whether a real shaft or an imaginary one?

All the Horizontal, or diametrical wires in the coils are just there serving as "connectors"...but no induction is generated?

This fact sets all these machines, automatically, at 50% Induction Efficiency!!

Now, it is impossible to build a machine (from the mechanical Engineering point) where the Induction coils or Exciter circuit, travels within a "fully closed tunnel" where all the Induced coils are wound...a completely closed tunnel...where the Stator Output Coils would be on the outside...

How can you rotate "physically" an inner set of coils and their steel cores, that could travel within another hollow, but fully closed structure?

However, that would be the "perfect generator", a 100% efficient from the Induction percentage area calculation point of view...

The only way that this type of generator could be conceived, is by rotating a Virtual Magnetic Field, not physically, not including its coils and cores...

And the only "Geometry" which can give Us such characteristics is a Toroid...

And then, we would not need to do "lap windings", or overlap the coils, none of them...just to be continuously set, one after the other...in a full closed circular arrangement...

Can You guys "imagine" that?

And then, set it to work in your minds?


Regards


Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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MAGNETIC VIEWING FILM, REVEALING MULTIPLE FIELDS WHILE ROTATION TAKING PLACE...

Here are a couple of pictures showing an "X-Ray View" from Magnetic Viewing Film, of coils during the rotation of the virtual field...

We observe a very slight, vague "rotation" around coils, which is based on the sequenced coils reversals...However, the center division lines for each coil still is there, not moving at all.

Resuming, this design, arrangement or geometry is NOT generating a True Singular Field...

I want to see a SINGULAR division wall for one singular field generated, and moving around as well as the field...this wall must be right at center of both field poles.

We need to be able to see this center line clearly moving along the right geometry, defining where our two poles are also moving...

Ufopolitics


Hello,


I have just quoted myself on that post where I was not "happy" because not seen the center line displacement...


I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG!!

I did not realize that Magnetic Viewing Film is just like a Polaroid Film, which captures an image and it stays there, even if image stops showing...
The only way to clear, reset magnetic viewing film imaging, is by running a small magnet around it in a circular motion, and fairly some distance away from film.
And so, if we do not clear film it will remain showing whatever it captures...


Maybe in a future, they will make such "reactive film" to capture a dynamic field movement...


So, yes, I was wrong, and the Field does move, as its brighter center line as well...


If we have that :wall: code for the emoticon hitting a brick wall...I will load it here many times... ;D


Stay tuned, I just finished making a video...




Cheers




Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Hello,


I am very  pleased to show this successful video about testing my future exciting field stator coils... ;D


EXCITING STATOR FIELDS TEST 1


Again this video is "Unlisted" not to show on my Channel, but only to those who have link...


I will comment on its results later on tomorrow...but I may be adding some more text here later, basically about things, details I did not shared at video...


Thanks for watching it,


Cheers