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2022 builders survivor board => General Builders discussion => Topic started by: floodrod on March 31, 2022, 11:23:29 PM

Title: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on March 31, 2022, 11:23:29 PM
I have the first prototype running of an Adams style motor with some differences.

-  6 alternating pole 40mm magnets
- 6 iron core coils.  3 are drivers, 3 are collectors
- Switching output coils then rectifying
- Attempting to collect flyback on the driver coils (not sure if it's working)

The 3 driver coils are using a latching hall sensor and flipping polarity 3 times per revolution.

Here is a video of it running with some detailed info.  Please forgive the mess..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkrV9vcR6g

I am attempting to use Gyulasun's circuit he posted here https://overunity.com/4679/free-energy-using-magnets/msg97834/#msg97834  to collect flyback on the pole switching drivers.  But it kept slowing the motor, so I had to run it through another bridge rectifier after it.. (i probably have something wrong here)

I currently do NOT see any overunity..  But by measuring battery voltage while running,  it has LOTS of power and the battery is not running down much..

To switch the output coils, I tried reed switches but I blew them up within seconds.  I am sure my amperage is exceeding their capacity.  So I went for a solid state relay for now.

I wanted to post it to see of any recommendations come my way..  I know it can use lots of tweaks..  Thanks
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 01, 2022, 12:41:18 AM
The brider view from
Re: FREE ENERGY USING MAGNETS (https://overunity.com/4679/free-energy-using-magnets/msg101080/#msg101080)
https://overunity.com/4679/free-energy-using-magnets/75/ (https://overunity.com/4679/free-energy-using-magnets/75/)

simulation tool : https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Matlab?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

wmbr
OCWL
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 02, 2022, 01:11:21 AM
Nice build. Looks like you are using a good amount of current. Have you done any measurements of the current? Also, it would be good to know how much drawing off of those coils is bogging things down. Runs pretty strong so far. Nice work.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 02, 2022, 04:19:49 PM
Nice build. Looks like you are using a good amount of current. Have you done any measurements of the current? Also, it would be good to know how much drawing off of those coils is bogging things down. Runs pretty strong so far. Nice work.

Somewhere about 3 amps (based on what I seen it pull when hooked to my variable power supply).  I will get more data soon..

Regarding flyback capture with switching polarity driver coils--   I tried the circuit below left, but hit problems.  So now I am using the circuit on the right..  I would really like to pump the flyback into the drive battery.   My questions are:

1. Will the circuit on the right work?
2.  Is using an O-scope the only way to verify it's working?  I would assume the spikes are too quick for a multimeter to catch.  ?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 02, 2022, 07:46:36 PM
Thane Hiens has a small resistor in series with a Capacitor in parallel that turns the output coils into LCR oscillators. When they are ringing while the rotor is above the critical RPM, they accelerate the rotor and generate power with no drag and reduction in input. The coil impedence at high "Q" or while ringing prevents any input current from entering. This ringing advances the induced pole and propels the rotor above critical RPM.

Thane connects an Induction motor to power the rotor to critical RPM. Your super powerful pulse motor is far superior to the clumsy hybrid setup on Thane's test bench! You have no problem reaching the critical RPM with the pulse motor alone.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: gyulasun on April 02, 2022, 11:54:56 PM
Hi floodrod,

Back then I drew the circuit with switching symbols for a member so that he could understand the principle. The switch symbols represented a H-bridge but the two separate puffer capacitors were not a good solution for utilizing the captured DC voltages.

IF your present H-bridge is built from MOSFETs, then the body diodes in each 4 of them constitute a full wave diode bridge whose AC input is 'hard wired' to the H-bridge output i.e. across the coils to be switched and DC output of the diode bridge is 'hard wired' to the + and - points of the input supply rail feeding the H-bridge, you surely know these. I mention this because this inherent diode bridge across the input coils steers the flyback spikes to the supply rails and the battery immediately limits their amplitude to its own output level. The flyback current surely go back to the battery, to "charge" it in such scenario  but the question is whether there is enough idle time in-between the motor ON currents to receive the flyback current pulses coming to "charge". How a battery can be discharged and charged alternately within quasi milliseconds or less, this is a good question but eventually the resulting input current may get reduced by the amount of the flyback current.
 
You can separate the input supply voltage from the recovered flyback voltage by a diode inserted into say the incoming positive supply rail to pass through any motor input current but block the flyback spikes towards the input supply. And to help store the flyback spikes, an electrolytic capacitor can be connected directly across the H-bridge supply rail (after the series diode). In your schema, cut the wire between the battery+ and the electrolytic cap+ and connect them with a 5A or heftier diode, (anode goes to battery+). The spikes will raise the voltage across this capacitor above the input supply rail but the actual voltage level will fluctuate across this capacitor depending on the ON and OFF motor times. There can be setups where such diode does not do anything good, it means then it is not needed... 

So on your 1st question: yes the circuit should collect the flyback from the 3 drive coils as it is connected (assuming your H-bridge has 4 MOSFETs) and
on your 2nd question: inserting the series diode and checking the DC voltage level across the capacitor may indicate this, especially using an oscilloscope for this. If your arduino has the feature for adjusting the duty cycle of the control pulses to the input of the H-bridge, then try to reduce it to let have more OFF time vs the ON time, thus the voltage should increase across the capacitor (when the series diode is there, that is).

I assume your 3 collector coils feed (charge) the battery via the full wave bridge and this circuit is not shown in your above schematic (so the big capacitor across the DC output of this diode bridge you show in the video is not the one indicated in the schema), is this so?

How did you adjust the control of the solid state relay to switch it on at a best moment? I mean what did you consider for that?  8)
You can check the output current of the 3 collector coils after the diode  bridge and its capacitor to have an idea on how much it helps reduce motor currrent (besides the flyback current) to the 3 drive coils?

Edit: I think I misunderstood your schematic. So the series diode should be inserted to the other side of the battery+ whiere the wire goes towards the H-bridge+.  And the diode bridge shown in the schematic receives the AC voltage coming from the 3 collector coils but the solid state relay circuit is not shown.  Right?

Gyula
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 03, 2022, 12:47:50 AM
Thanks for the great replies..

I do think the flyback circuit is working.  When I disconnect the cap from the battery / driver coils, at times I can see 45+ volts in the cap with the multimeter (and the supply is only putting 12 volts in) sometimes.  But when it's all hooked up and working, the cap stays at the battery voltage.  Even when I disconnect the cap only from the battery- the cap stays at battery nominal voltage, which I am guessing is from reverse leakage through the fwbr?   but one thing I confirmed many times now is that without the flyback circuit hooked up, the battery goes from 12V to 9 volts in under 5 minutes..  With the flyback circuit hooked up, the motor runs and the battery stays at 12V for a long time.  So I conclude it must be doing something..  I will experiment later with your diode placement recommendation.  Thanks for that..

That big blue Cap in the video is the only cap I am using currently for both driver and collector circuits.  I do not have much happening in the collector circuit as of now. Basically rectifying it and connecting the DC to the same cap.  Pic attached.. But I can also say for certain, the collector coils do add a good degree of drag when hooked up.

I have a few big heavy duty reed switches, I tried shorting the collector coils but not really sure how that part works yet.  Am I shorting one AC lead before the fwbr? I figure I shouldn't short the DC because I think doing so would short the cap.   I might be totally off base here on this part.  FYI- since I got the reed switches in- I took out the SSL as of now. 
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 03, 2022, 09:37:15 AM
At 3 amps, it's pretty power hungry. The original adams was a bit power hungry as well though. But that is a pretty good chunk or power to try and make up with the Gen coils even though technically all of your coils are gen coils the way you have it. You are getting lenz drag from all of them but still much rpm is left to harvest from. Is your pulse width pretty wide on purpose to gain more speed possibly? I'm just curious, because it's clear you can crank the speed out and it can be powerful. But at what cost? I'm just curious how far you can increase that efficiency. You are at the fun stage of the project now. And the most frustrating tweaking stuff!!! This is where I like to cut power down to the very minimum that continues to run, and step it up slowly as I tweak everything. The adams motor I built many years ago I actually found that it was more efficient to me, not to treat the run coils as Gen coils. When I removed the bridge from it and worked to only collect the flyback, my current dropped, my rpms increased, and my Gen coils appeared to be doing better as well simply because they were being fed higher rpm. I felt in my motor, the added Lenz drag from pulling energy off my run coils hurt more than helped overall efficiency. Yours may be totally different. Just sharing my experience from past.  Please keep sharing. Love to see it.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 03, 2022, 12:48:15 PM
last night I switched around the coil config and made it into the standard 2 driver setup to compare.  And my RPM and power went through the roof!  I was wondering why, so I ohm'd out the coil sets and I think I have a shorted coil... Now the problem-child is in the collector coils. So I will have to take it apart and inspect closely.

Then I reduced the pulse width by tuning in 2 non-latching hall sensors.  Here is a video of the on / off cycles.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWZ4H1-j5I

Yes, you are right.  it is a power hungry beast..  With all the iron in the cores combined with the thick coil wire- I don't have much of a choice.  When I reach minimum cut-in voltage for the H-bridge-  the amps are already way up there.   And I read a post by Stefan who said when OU is the goal, size matters.  It made sense to me, with all the losses from friction / heat / etc, I figure the bigger and stronger it is, the less consequential those losses will be in the overall picture. And in most my past motors, the biggest problem was always lack of torque.  I don't think this motor here is lacking torque now.

After getting this shorted-coil sorted out, I fear my generator coils will not produce enough voltage to charge the battery.  The collector coil wires are just too thick..  But I guess we will see how far I get :)

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2022, 02:31:24 PM
Wiring the generator coils in series will multiply the voltage. Interrupted current can easily generate hundreds of volts. Just the opposite from what you're anticipating. A high voltage Capacitor in parallel with the charge battery is needed to regulate the voltage down.

Shorting the output coils at TDC will increase the power to the rotor. Controling the pole reversal causes the drag to propel the rotor rather than slow it down. This will result in increased acceleration and higher charging!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: gyulasun on April 03, 2022, 02:48:25 PM

...  But when it's all hooked up and working, the cap stays at the battery voltage. 
It is okay due to the direct cap-battery connection. And the battery simply "swallows up" the huge spikes and strictly limits to its own voltage level - every battery an excellent voltage stabilizer.

Quote
Even when I disconnect the cap only from the battery- the cap stays at battery nominal voltage, which I am guessing is from reverse leakage through the fwbr? 
Well, in this case the cap is still connected to the battery via the driver coils and the H-bridge, this is the explanation. With a voltmeter in say max 20 V measurement range you could see a voltage difference representing the diodes forward voltage drops (2x 0.7V for Si diodes).

Quote
But I can also say for certain, the collector coils do add a good degree of drag when hooked up.

Yes, this is normal generator Lenz drag as captainpecan also wrote.

Quote
I tried shorting the collector coils but not really sure how that part works yet.  Am I shorting one AC lead before the fwbr?

I am not fully sure how you mean shorting? In the video with the solid state relay you inserted it in series with the 3 collector coils before one of the full wave bridge AC inputs as an on/off switch or I misunderstood ?  There is coil shorting where a controllod switch is connected across a coil (or across coils which are in series connection) and the switch is ON at say the voltage peaks induced in the coil. Then a full wave bridge across the coil can direct the huge spike to a capacitor.  But this may improve the collapsing field energy capture efficiency but no extra energy production I am afraid. 

Regarding your setup with the transformer E cores, you could increase torque by utilizing the two outer prongs of the E cores which are presently "unused" if I see it correctly.
I mean to install two additional rotor magnets for each E core which move over the outer prongs of the E core like the 40 mm magnets over the center legs. Presently these outer prongs have opposite magnetic poles with respect to their center pole whenever such electromagnet is ON by its driver coil. I made a small drawing and indicated a moment when the input current creates an N pole in the top center leg and of course the outer two legs should have S poles then.  You could strengthten these S poles by two additional coils wound onto the outer legs as I indicated (they make the N pole in the center also stronger of course). So you could print another rotor structure for the rotor magnets to accomododate the additional magnets besides the presently used ones.
The additional small coils could be connected in series with the main drive coils of course and 40-50 turns would be already enough for each such additional coil. 
Even if you would not have these extra 12 coils, the additional extra rotor magnets (also 12 in number) would increase torque already. Just a suggestion. 


Quote
I fear my generator coils will not produce enough voltage to charge the battery.  The collector coil wires are just too thick.. 
It is good that generator coils have low DC resistance. With the series connections of the gen coils as synchro1 also say you may reach the needed voltage (and with the additional magnets?)

Gyula


Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2022, 03:48:35 PM
Thane's ReGenX coils have a tiny capacitor in parallel with the winding. We can control the timing of the Lenz pole reversal with a Reed switch or the inclusion of the Capacitor. The calculated resonance of the LC tank delays magnetic pole appearance because of this hysterisis loop. The Capacitor farad and coil inductance values determine the moment of maximum impedence. The mirror pole cannot form while the cap charge has the coil in resonance. Thane failed to get any patents awarded for this design, so it is free to use. Your motor will be the highest state of the art if you succeed.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 03, 2022, 04:27:27 PM
 ::)   https://overunity.com/19078/99-5-efficient-electric-motor/msg565245/#new (https://overunity.com/19078/99-5-efficient-electric-motor/msg565245/#new)   

                                               Reply #3
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=25&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900215&CC=DE&NR=3826970A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=25&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900215&CC=DE&NR=3826970A1&KC=A1#)


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=26&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19821007&CC=DE&NR=3039176A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=26&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19821007&CC=DE&NR=3039176A1&KC=A1#)


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=27&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19810723&CC=DE&NR=3002327A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=27&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19810723&CC=DE&NR=3002327A1&KC=A1#)



                                                                          and

                                        Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
                                       ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          =

                                                          Running Adams Motor

                                                                    -
                                      6 X independent circuits - poles with Alternating Polarity
                                                           per wheel/rotor
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 03, 2022, 08:15:37 PM
Thinking about your concern for how power hungry your motor is at the moment. Here is something to consider, and something I am currently working on with my own motor design...

I'm not saying this is your answer by any means. Just adding a little food for thought if you begin changing coils a bit...

Sometimes it helps me step all the way back to the basics... Talking about the run coils... There are 3 ways to increase the magnetic field that they produce from each pulse that we are aware of immediately.
1. increase the number of turns
2. increase the amount of current
3. add an iron core
Now, we also want to keep resistance as low as possible. So finding that golden ratio here that matches each particular motor can be difficult.
Consider this. You already have the iron core. You also have the higher current. You really only have more turns to add to the coil to help any more here. Unless of course you use tank circuits and other manipulations, but I'm only talking about the very simple principles here.
I am going exactly opposite with my motor design currently. I am using very high number of turns from very small wire guage just to see the effect of doing exactly opposite. In my coils I have 2600 turns of 30awg in each coil. That of course has increased my resistance quite a bit per coil. And what I found is that I am get extremely efficient run, but much lower rpm and torque. I am getting over 500 rpm for less than 1/2watt of power. It runs on only about 14ma which is fantastic, but I have to push a much higher voltage to get there due to the high resistance of the wire. I am on the other extreme of the scale from where you are. There is a happy middle in there for each of our designs. From my experience, it looks to me like if you wanted to make a coil adjustment, your efficiency will go up if you use smaller wire. Your current draw will go down and the number of turns goes up. You will be making a trade cutting current while still trying to maintain as much torque as possible. Where is the happy median? Maybe just stepping up a few guages of wire might do you a lot of good without going to far with it and increasing your resistance to much like I have done. Also, the saturation point of your cores is something to think about as well. To thick of cores could also be very power hungry as well. With 3 amps cranking through there, that is probably not your issue here. And since you are using transformer cores, may not be an option to change much here anyway. But may be something to think about as you move forward. Somebody also mentioned, that you are not using the outer sides of your cores either. That is also a very valid point. That's just unused power laying there for the taking. But everything is of course a work in progress.
Now of course, our goals are probably completely different as well and makes a huge difference. In my design, I do not need high rpms. I want efficiency and to pull all of my power off the backend through gen coils. You on the other hand may be hunting for a much stronger torque than me, which would require much more current than mine does. Just all food for thought. I love the Adams motor design, but I quickly found myself drifting in my own directions and moved to air cored before I moved on to something else entirely. I found my air cored adams was more efficient but of course not as impressive. There always seems to be a trade off in every design. I'll keep changing and adapting like we all do.
Sorry for all my rant. Just sharing the part of my own experiments I'm currently working on that maybe you can learn from my mistakes and keep in mind.

An after thought... I'm not sure what kind of transformers you used for your coils. But do you happen to have some secondaries you could swap in on your cores to see what the higher gage wire would perform like? Just for an easy way to test out the side of the wire thickness scale?
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 12:47:09 AM
Thanks..  Tinkering with adding magnets and adding windings on the E legs is certainly a possibility to check out.    As far as shorting the generator coils, I tried it both ways.  Shorting and disconnecting an AC lead.  I will have to mess with this again to get a better idea what's happening with that part.  Or if it's even worth doing.

Captain-  In the past-  I did wind 2 bobbins for these coils in 28 gauge to test.  Each coil takes about 1/2 pound of wire..  I can mess with these ideas in the future- but first I want to see what I can do about the drag (if anything)

So I took it apart and I found the short and verified my 4 generator coils DO reach 15+ volts, enough to charge the battery!  And when I hook it all up and run it, Lenz Law is absolutely destroying me (as we can expect)..

I took a video of the motor Loaded,  then Unloaded, then Loaded again..  You can see how the RPM's go wild unloaded, then SLOW majorly when hooked up.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sh8ZWH1l1I 

I guess I just found the same roadblock that many before me have faced.  There will be no OU unless Lenz Law can be bypassed / lessened / reversed / .
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2022, 01:37:00 AM
Connect a tiny capacitor you choose at random in parallel with  the electrodes of the output coil with clips and see if the rotor speeds up. This is the ReGenX Gimmick!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 02:01:06 AM
I guess I just found the same roadblock that many before me have faced.  There will be no OU unless Lenz Law can be bypassed / lessened / reversed / .

Don't get discouraged. It's a law for a reason. But, there are other ways to look at it and deal with it. I personally haven't worked with shorting the coils, something I have been interested in. I am working on a concept with my motor I've never seen done. Maybe it will help.

But, I have been thinking the Lenz law thing through at the very basic level. Gives me a few things to try. But consider this... I could be completely wrong here. But I have an idea. Lenz is the result of current flowing in the coil and has a reverse magnetic field to the magnet that created it. Picture your magnets passing your Gen coils. You have 3 coils generating current. Each coil generates a field opposing the magnets. If there were 3 more coils in series, that the magnets DO NOT pass over at all, since the current would have to flow through all 6 but the magnets would only see it in 3. It is the same amount of current, wouldn't the reverse magnetic field be split into all 6? Effectively cutting the Lenz effect in half that the 3 magnets see even though you still generate the same amount from them? Well, slightly less because of added resistance of the 3 extra coils. Kind of like naturally diverting the magnetic field Lenz creates down the line where it is not causing drag. Im not sure if that would be the case, but it seems reasonable. Just an idea I had I plan on trying myself.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 02:08:01 AM
Connect a tiny capacitor you choose at random in parallel with  the electrodes of the output coil with clips and see if the rotor speeds up. This is the ReGenX Gimmick!

OK I tried a few. a 10 uf and a 100 uf after the fwbr  I didn't notice any changes.  My AC cap inventory only consists of one 320 MFD AC cap.  I tried that one on the AC side before the fwbr and it slows the motor down substantially.

Since I have a bag of Triacs of decent capacity, I am thinking I might try to use one triggered by a hall sensor to only connect the collector coils at a specific time.  Same idea as cutting connection with a reed switch, (i think) but i can tune-in a triac with a hall sensor much easier (again i think). ???

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 02:26:33 AM
Don't get discouraged. It's a law for a reason. But, there are other ways to look at it and deal with it. I personally haven't worked with shorting the coils, something I have been interested in. I am working on a concept with my motor I've never seen done. Maybe it will help.

But, I have been thinking the Lenz law thing through at the very basic level. Gives me a few things to try. But consider this... I could be completely wrong here. But I have an idea. Lenz is the result of current flowing in the coil and has a reverse magnetic field to the magnet that created it. Picture your magnets passing your Gen coils. You have 3 coils generating current. Each coil generates a field opposing the magnets. If there were 3 more coils in series, that the magnets DO NOT pass over at all, since the current would have to flow through all 6 instead of just the 3. It is the same amount of current, wouldn't the reverse magnetic field be split into all 6? Effectively cutting the Lenz effect in half that the 3 magnets see even though you still generate the same amount from them? Kind of like naturally diverting the magnetic field Lenz creates down the line where it is not causing drag. Im not sure if that would be the case, but it seems reasonable. Just an idea I had I plan on trying myself.

EDIT-  If I try this idea, I think I would need diodes between each coil so the rotor can't induce current in the top coils and DC can only flow one way through

Interesting- I like your intuitive thoughts!.  I might try your idea (kinda) by just adding a big coil of wire in series with the generator coils outside the range of the rotor before it hits the fwbr.  Since it's said magnetic fields travel just about the speed of light, if your idea works, perhaps just one big coil on the output would divert some flux that way.

I was thinking something similar, but different. Not sure if my idea will do any good, just a brainstorm like yours..

I now have 4 generator coils.  What if I mount 4 additional coils of the same type exactly over the rotor lining up with the bottom coils. (interacting with the top of the magnets on the rotor.)   the 4 original generator coils on the bottom would go to a FWBR then the DC would come out and go into the top 4 coils which would be wired in series  so the magnetic field opposes the rotor's top magnets.   So as the motor spins, AC is created, rectified, then fed through a electromagnets opposing the lenz drag, then finally tied to the battery through diodes to collect it at the end.

EDIT-  If I do try this- I think I will need diodes between each coil on the top to stop AC from being generated and feeding the wrong way
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 02:38:59 AM
@floodrod...
That's exactly what I was getting at, same concept. Maybe it will work. I was thinking of taking it a step further like you suggested, bit I was thinking of it a little different. Adding the extra coils opposite the magnets would do what you think. But the only problem there is that THAT will also create more Lenz drag. BUT, line them up with some steel or iron on the rotor as well. That way when the current flows through it, it will attract the iron having an attraction motor effect no matter which direction the current flows. Line it up so the attraction aids in the same direction of the shaft spin. Then, if successful, we cut down the effect of Lenz drag in the Gen coils, and aided a little to the rotation in the other coils. A 2 for 1 situation maybe???


If you test any of this, please post and let me know. I'll do the same.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 04, 2022, 02:44:42 AM
I.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Braun (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Braun)

II.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=mandelstam+papalexi+&oq=mandelstam+papalexi+&aqs=heirloom-srp (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=mandelstam+papalexi+&oq=mandelstam+papalexi+&aqs=heirloom-srp)..

III.
https://www.google.com/search?q=zenneck&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=zenneck&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

       to finally

IV.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19861111&CC=US&NR=4622510A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19861111&CC=US&NR=4622510A&KC=A#)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ferdinand+cap&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=ferdinand+cap&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)


wmbr
OCWL

p.s. :

https://www.ee-news.ch/de/article/32372/thermomagnetischer-motor-strom-aus-handwarmem-wasser (https://www.ee-news.ch/de/article/32372/thermomagnetischer-motor-strom-aus-handwarmem-wasser)
Open R&D- improvement question/-s about alternative cheaper Curie-temperature magneto-caloric materials and process here to find :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Baltzar+von+platen&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Baltzar+von+platen&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other solutions and " perpetuum mobile"- history and trials :


https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=winter+oesterreich+wasser+und+magnetmotor&oq=winter+oesterreich+wasser+und+magnetmotor&aqs=heirloom-srp (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=winter+oesterreich+wasser+und+magnetmotor&oq=winter+oesterreich+wasser+und+magnetmotor&aqs=heirloom-srp)..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      Caution ! 

Ferromagnetic/Ferrometric  to Paramagnetic/Parametric and w-/v-ice-versa  :
                  http://www.rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm)
                 
Dense to Hiper-Thin matter ( Einstein-Bose Condensat)
Plasma-,Spin-(Tornado),String- [(Nano-Wormhole,Black-/White Loch)]-Tronic/Physics
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 02:57:50 AM
@floodrod...
That's exactly what I was getting at, same concept. Maybe it will work. I was thinking of taking it a step further like you suggested, bit I was thinking of it a little different. Adding the extra coils opposite the magnets would do what you think. But the only problem there is that THAT will also create more Lenz drag. BUT, line them up with some steel or iron on the rotor as well. That way when the current flows through it, it will attract the iron having an attraction motor effect no matter which direction the current flows. Line it up so the attraction aids in the same direction of the shaft spin. Then, if successful, we cut down the effect of Lenz drag in the Gen coils, and aided a little to the rotation in the other coils. A 2 for 1 situation maybe???

I just tried your original idea and hooked 2 coils in series on the output before the FWBR..  The 2 coils outside the rotors range definitely received flux and alternating magnetic fields were in them for sure..  The motor got considerably faster!  BUT.,..  (there's always a but)...   The battery drained much quicker... No test measurements were done, but I would venture to guess that the amount of flux we direct away from the generator coils will be equal to the amount of power decrease the generator spits out. 

Regarding the other idea, it would be more difficult that I first thought because my magnets are alternating.  I would need more circuitry to switch the polarity constantly of the top coils to always repel the alternating field rotor
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 03:33:12 AM
Well, that is actually not a bad result. Everything is as expected except so much more current. We need to understand why. Would be nice to know the change in generated energy if you happen to get any measurements. Any results are a learning experience.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 03:43:29 AM
Well, that is actually not a bad result. Everything is as expected except so much more current. We need to understand why. Would be nice to know the change in generated energy if you happen to get any measurements. Any results are a learning experience.

Will do!  But the next logical step is about to get even more complicated....

So we have a BIG iron core coil outside the range of the rotor magnets..  And this BIG COIL is pulsating alternating polarity from the diverted flux..  Now the next logical step is to harvest energy from this alternating electromagnet that we just diverted it to...

So we get yet another iron core coil and clamp it to the diversion coil that is pulsating..  Then rectify that and dump it back to the battery!

I am liking this idea...  We can divert just about ALL the flux away from the rotor, then convert it outside the range of the rotor where Lenz effect can not hurt the rotor
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 03:59:37 AM
Will do!  But the next logical step is about to get even more complicated....

So we have a BIG iron core coil outside the range of the rotor magnets..  And this BIG COIL is pulsating alternating polarity from the diverted flux..  Now the next logical step is to harvest energy from this alternating electromagnet that we just diverted it to...

So we get yet another iron core coil and clamp it to the diversion coil that is pulsating..  Then rectify that and dump it back to the battery!

I am liking this idea...  We can divert just about ALL the flux away from the rotor, then convert it outside the range of the rotor where Lenz effect can not hurt the rotor
That's awesome. You are thinking just like me. It's at the very least, a new concept worth looking into. There could be many things we can try with it. But, at least for now, it's like we are using Lenz law to our advantage instead of complaining about how much it's kicking our butts... lol. A step forward!
I will be able to get back to work on mine as well hopefully tomorrow and I cam try some as well. I have a hunch that diverting the flux isn't causes as much of a decline in the generated energy as you may suspect. The added resistance will for sure a bit, but I think it's a negligible amount of loss considering the gained rpm and the use of the field outside of the rotor in whatever way we do. Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 04, 2022, 04:09:42 AM
Yeah..  I have some HUGE transformers that weigh like 80 pounds..  The windings are like 10 gauge or maybe bigger..    In the coming days, I am going to try hooking one up as the diversion / outside collector..  They have complete enclosed cores, so they should work fine for the diversion/recapture  with very little leakage.  And they won't be adding much resistance or creating much heat at all.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 04:41:03 AM
That sounds great. Would love to hear how it turns out.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2022, 09:36:17 PM
The Capacitor is wired directly to the coil, no rectifier in between. The Capacitor value should be in micro farads. uF! Nice try. You got it to slow down. That is where you attach the micro capacitor to get it to speed up! This amounts to a coil shorting technique. Thane Heines takes credit for discovering this, but it was around before he picked up on it.

Measuring the coil inductance in Henries and matching a capacitor value to resonate at the rotor critical frequency RPM, would work best. Thane is secretive about the details, but I am certain that it is a much smaller capacitor than the ones you tried. Good work!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 04, 2022, 10:41:08 PM
The Capacitor is wired directly to the coil, no rectifier in between. The Capacitor value should be in micro farads. uF! Nice try. You got it to slow down. That is where you attach the micro capacitor to get it to speed up! This amounts to a coil shorting technique. Thane Heines takes credit for discovering this, but it was around before he picked up on it.

Measuring the coil inductance in Henries and matching a capacitor value to resonate at the rotor critical frequency RPM, would work best. Thane is secretive about the details, but I am certain that it is a much smaller capacitor than the ones you tried. Good work!
                                                     the capacitor is based by coils

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19320409&CC=DE&NR=548297C&KC=C# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19320409&CC=DE&NR=548297C&KC=C#)

Base for this rotor " capacitive coils windings", 2009 Lisbon/PT INPI approved and granted  :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20091130&CC=PT&NR=104078A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20091130&CC=PT&NR=104078A&KC=A#)


Sincerely

OCWL

p.s.:   ::) ;) :)
https://overunity.com/6228/magnet-kraft/10/imode/ (https://overunity.com/6228/magnet-kraft/10/imode/)
In overunity.com allgemeiner "Annalen der Physik " Sprache,der Deutschen   ;D
https://overunity.com/6228/magnet-kraft/msg150402/#msg150402

 
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 04, 2022, 11:41:30 PM
The Capacitor is wired directly to the coil, no rectifier in between. The Capacitor value should be in micro farads. uF! Nice try. You got it to slow down. That is where you attach the micro capacitor to get it to speed up! This amounts to a coil shorting technique. Thane Heines takes credit for discovering this, but it was around before he picked up on it.

Measuring the coil inductance in Henries and matching a capacitor value to resonate at the rotor critical frequency RPM, would work best. Thane is secretive about the details, but I am certain that it is a much smaller capacitor than the ones you tried. Good work!


I have not done nearly enough work into this concept. Would you mind correcting my understanding of how it works if i am wrong. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the general concept and if it really is that beneficial. I have a hunch that it wasn't as beneficial as led to be. But, this is just a hunch so it's probably wrong. So please correct my thinking if I am off here because I am trying to understand it and have not put in nearly the leg work per say many others have.
But consider this. What you are referring to is a simple tank circuit. Properly configured basically sloshes the energy back and forth between the coil and capacitor until it dissipates. Kind of a recycling of it. Knowing from experience, just the act of sending energy into a capacitor typically seems to lose somewhere around 50% of the energy. Just my experience anyway and dont hold me to that number. Its just an observance for explanation. If you look at a scope of the tank circuit bouncing back and forth, it does appear to be losing that 50% or so each bounce between the coil and cap. Now in this Thain Heines concept, if I understand it correctly, is grabbing that flyback, and bouncing it back and forth with a tank circuit. As it is bouncing, part of it begins to push the rotor forward because the magnet has moved past TDC and is now repelled by that same pulse as its bouncing back. This causes the increase in speed. If I am correct, then immediately the pulse returning is nearly half as strong as the first flyback energy. Then half of that. And so on. It seems to me that using the flyback to get a tiny bit of acceleration by wasting the majority of the flyback energy you originally had seems counter productive. Why not just take that entire flyback and dump it across the battery and capture it all? Seems more efficient? Is something else happening there that I am not understanding? I'm attaching just a simple tank circuit scope shot to kind of show the 50% ish loss each bounce of the flyback in the tank circuit.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not fighting against it. I'm trying to understand why everyone keeps saying to do this because it seems counter intuitive to me. So I probably misunderstand something here.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 05, 2022, 12:22:49 AM
I can't find anything wrong with your explanation. We are shorting the coil a bit differently. The coil impedence is maximum when in resonance. This prevents any input current from entering the coils. The coils consume zero current when in the propulsion mode. The frequency of the coil tank determines the amount of Lenz delay. The rotor RPM is a critical factor. You got real negative test results. Equal in value. You tested the effects of the Capacitor on the Lenz drag! Very important result.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 05, 2022, 01:10:47 AM
I can't find anything wrong with your explanation. We are shorting the coil a bit differently. The coil impedence is maximum when in resonance.

Thank you for the prompt response. So many try and make this stuff so mystical and like its a giant secret. There's nothing mystical here. It's just simply trying to understand things and trying to apply them in new ways. Right up my alley!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 05, 2022, 01:51:25 AM
Hey Captain....

So I did a few small experiments with our diversion coil idea, and I must say-  this is worthy of full investigation..    I have some more data to share..

I hooked up 1 pair of coils to the generator circuit as shown in the pic.  The generator coil set is now a closed circuit..  I clamped another coil and core to the diversion coil and rectified the output. Here are my preliminary findings:

1. When FWBR DC output leads are NOT hooked to the battery, the motor goes FULL SPPED!  (even with the closed circuit)  so it must be directing a lot of flux to the diversion coil.    And the output voltage from the DC side of the FWBR is impressive!

2. When I hook the DC leads from the FWBR too the battery, Lenz Law comes back into play..  The motor slows down  some.  BUT the speed is still an increase from without the diversion coil. 

My thoughts at the moment are,  it is indeed working..  But drawing off the diversion coil must be pushing some flux back into the primary 4 coil generator circuit because lenz law returns, just not as bad as before.

This is leading me to believe I need more diversion coils!  From what I am seeing, I am leaning towards the conclusion that UNLOADED, the diversion coil is transferring the FULL FLUX even with a closed circuit!  But when loaded, it appears that the accumulative flux quantity is spread out evenly over all 5 coils.  Thus making the motor go 20-25% quicker!

Again I am in the beginning stages of these experiments, and all my data is mostly visual.  But once I get a full idea of whats happening, I can do accurate tests with a full setup
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 05, 2022, 03:22:54 AM
Another piece of the puzzle to throw in here.. quite interesting!

Instead of closing the loop, I ran the entire loop from one end of the FWBR to the other..  And I sent the flux through BOTH diversion coils.  (no collectors)..  I still had the diversion coils clamped together..  The FWBR was feeding back into the battery the whole time..

Now the interesting part..  See the green arrow in my drawing.....   I hooked up the two diversion coils both ways..  Diversion coils Magnetic flux attracting each other and flux repelling and compared..

1 way there was very big Lenz drag...
The other way- the motor RIPPED!  Like No Lenz Effect...

I am not going to have time tonight to continue much, ..  I am also not sure how much this is hurting the output.  But I am all but sure it is.. 

In the upcoming days (my weekend) I plan to organize all this and setup controlled tests measuring full output etc to get a better handle on all this

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 05, 2022, 03:23:54 AM
Thats really good results. It shows that we are onto something with the concept. The best use of it is still a mystery. But it's basically shown that the underlying concept seems to be valid. Great work! I just happened to have torn my entire build apart reworking my motor design just before I mentioned my idea to you, so it will be a couple days before I get built back to start working the concept in other ways as well. I have some special type coils I wound that I am going to mix with my Gen coils outside of the flux and create an attraction motor design from the diversion coils to add to the shaft torque as I draw off the Gen side. Kind of complicated idea, but it's been bouncing in my head for months. It's kind of nice having someone understand and test some of the underlying concept I've been bouncing around for a while now to beat Lenz law!!!


This was just a simple little test on just attraction. It did get up to almost 500 rpm on only 12v at 57ma. So that can be easily obtained from Gen coils. If this becomes the diversion coils, look at the energy thrown back into the shaft while taking away a large Lenz law drag... just a thought. My concept anyway to just pass that energy through here to the battery.
https://youtu.be/hPeKd-UupTc
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 05, 2022, 03:31:16 AM
Thats really good results. It shows that we are onto something with the concept. The best use of it is still a mystery. But it's basically shown that the underlying concept seems to be valid. Great work! I just happened to have torn my entire build apart reworking my motor design just before I mentioned my idea to you, so it will be a couple days before I get built back to start working the concept in other ways as well. I have some special type coils I wound that I am going to mix with my Gen coils outside of the flux and create an attraction motor design from the diversion coils to add to the shaft torque as I draw off the Gen side. Kind of complicated idea, but it's been bouncing in my head for months. It's kind of nice having someone understand and test some of the underlying concept I've been bouncing around for a while now to beat Lenz law!!!

Awesome!  Yes it's nice to have someone also working on a similar idea to bounce ideas off each other..

I am totally into this strategy.  Without a doubt, using the flux diversion coils gives us the ability to manipulate the rotor / flux interactions in many ways that were not possible before.  We will see where it leads
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 05, 2022, 03:33:59 AM
@floodrod...

Great tests. Keep in mind also that Lenz law also will restrict current as well. So, hooked up wrong, you could effectively make your Gen coil do nothing as well. Maybe that's when you saw the speed increase so much? Maybe you chocked them off and were actually making them useless? Just something to think about. Gotta look at it from all angles. I can't wait until I am built back up again and can start running some good rpm amd power tests. Of course, my build is totally different than adams motor. But this aspect we are discussing is the same.

I added a little link on my last post you may not have seen. Just kind of explaining the attraction idea as well.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 05, 2022, 04:31:32 AM
@floodrod...

Great tests. Keep in mind also that Lenz law also will restrict current as well. So, hooked up wrong, you could effectively make your Gen coil do nothing as well. Maybe that's when you saw the speed increase so much? Maybe you chocked them off and were actually making them useless? Just something to think about. Gotta look at it from all angles. I can't wait until I am built back up again and can start running some good rpm amd power tests. Of course, my build is totally different than adams motor. But this aspect we are discussing is the same.

I added a little link on my last post you may not have seen. Just kind of explaining the attraction idea as well.

Yea, I saw you post that video in another thread. I was peeking in on it -  very cool...

It is very possible I was wiping out all power from the generator as you say.  I really have no idea yet, but I will know soon enough.  I just went and verified which polarities produced what.  When there was no Lenz drag, the two diversion coils were attracting each other clamped together.


EDIT-- I just did a final test for the night..  I checked voltage with the No-Lenz configuration and I was cranking out voltage!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 05, 2022, 04:50:01 AM
EDIT-- I just did a final test for the night..  I checked voltage with the No-Lenz configuration and I was cranking out voltage!
Thats awesome!!! Have a good evening!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 05, 2022, 03:41:38 PM
   
https://overunity.com/18428/real-free-energy-from-magnets/30/ (https://overunity.com/18428/real-free-energy-from-magnets/30/)
Reply #35 statement and #36 supplement

also recommending #40 IIftdaniel1 his offered links,beside to go from #1-#40 step-by-step !?

wmbr
L.-W.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 02:12:23 AM
I have another update:

I hooked up an additional 5 exact same coils as the drivers / generator coils.  Except the 5 had a full core around them..  Speed increased about double.  Tested wattage:   output was 13.6 watts

Then I unhooked them and hooked up the generator with no extra diversion coils.  Like how it was designed.  RPM slowed but output was 27 watts.

then I hooked up 1 open core coil as an electromagnet with nothing clamped onto it.  RPM was maybe slightly better than the standard way, but wattage dropped to 24 watts output.

Next I hooked up 2 coils clamped together.

Repelling flux (with lenz drag)=  24 watts
Attracting flux- (no lenz)  Ghost voltage- no amperage.  Could not power a load.  Good voltage unloaded, but everything frops out when loaded.

Preliminary results suggest the diversion coils allow diversion of flux, but everything remained relative..  The  more flux diverted, the quicker the motor went with equal reduction of output power.  And no configuration performed as good as the standard generator coils with no diversion coils.

I will be doing more tests, but so far, no clear direction to improvement emerged

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 02:20:55 AM
Oh and lastly I tried 1 diversion coil, closing the circuit, and pulling power off a coil clamped to the diversion coil.  14 watts output.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 06, 2022, 10:00:12 AM
Very good tests. Thanks for posting. Trying to wrap my brain around the results a bit. Where is the extra power going? I mean, it all fits that in the long run we get a gain in one place only to lose it elsewhere. But what is actually happening in the other diversion coils? I mean at the micro scale. Because it seems that the same amount of copper turns and permanent magnet interaction is there either way. It's almost like, diverting lenz may actually dissipate the current somewhere. It looks simply like without the drag, we just get the voltage and no current follows. Kind of a bummer, but its another learning experiece. Just really weird. Cool idea anyway. This little brain teaser is going to bug me... lol.

Another odd thought. If current is created by moving a magnetic field past the wire. And a magnetic field is created by moving a current through the wire. If you stick magnets on the core of the stationary diversion coil, it should oppose the current flow and slow down the current. But since things appear opposite in this setup, does that act the same as well? Any chance that the current would increase simply by just sticking a magnet to the coil core? I know it can increase rpm in a pulse motor at times to direct the flux of a drive coil with a permanent magnet. Just a thought, since the diversion coils seem to be kind of funny. It does just appear like a non useful neat idea. But I'll keep playing with it a bit with high resistance coils. Who knows.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 12:49:32 PM


Another odd thought. If current is created by moving a magnetic field past the wire. And a magnetic field is created by moving a current through the wire. If you stick magnets on the core of the stationary diversion coil, it should oppose the current flow and slow down the current. But since things appear opposite in this setup, does that act the same as well? Any chance that the current would increase simply by just sticking a magnet to the coil core? I know it can increase rpm in a pulse motor at times to direct the flux of a drive coil with a permanent magnet. Just a thought, since the diversion coils seem to be kind of funny. It does just appear like a non useful neat idea. But I'll keep playing with it a bit with high resistance coils. Who knows.

I actually tried a few other things I did not mention.  One of them being magnets on the diversion core.  It may do something, but in my setup, the magnets are alternating- so sticking a magnet on the coil didn't do much if anything.  It may have helped 1 side of the wave, but then opposed the other side.  I also got the motor to speed up and slow down by clamping the 2 diversion coils in different orientations.  Like 1 outer leg of the core to the center of the the other coil, etc.  things changed, but no net gain noticed..

My final test before bed was interesting..  I hooked the alternating DC output leads of the H bridge to the collection coil (split with the driver coils) that was clamped on the diversion coil.  We can control Lenz drag at exact timings by pulsating voltage into the collection coil which is clamped on the diversion coil.  In my case, I was turning off Lenz law as the exact time the driver coils were firing..  I had a big increase of speed and pretty good amperage output. But I wasn't able to get a full wattage reading doing so because the of the hour of the night. I know it was not producing enough to run itself tho (i tried).    My initial thoughts tell me the results will be relative once again but I am not sure on that yet. 

That's the biggest advantage I can see as of now.  By using a diversion coil , we can use it as a "remote control" to alter the generators flux patterns with extreme accuracy. In all honesty tho- I am still not convinced that switching generator coils really does anything useful.  Sure it lessens drag at critical times which allows greater RPM, but the costs of this manifests in the output readings.

Tonight or tomorrow I will get readings and wattage of the latest test.  And I have a few other ideas I already have planned to try.  And the wheels in my head are spinning! 
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: kolbacict on April 06, 2022, 01:27:41 PM
But what if the current is not taken directly from the winding of a conventional generator, but this current is interrupted by a high-speed switch several times per period ?
What will Lenz do ?  Maybe nonsense, of course...

Quote
And the wheels in my head are spinning!
:D
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 02:50:24 PM
After much thinking, I have my hypothesis of all this. I had to attach an image of my hypothesis because I am on mobile now. And I don't want to type it all out again. Anyway tell me what you think
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 03:50:52 PM
If my above hypothesis is correct, the answer will lie within point number two.  Understanding that is pivotal into quest to beat lens law

If indeed correct, I would imagine to generator coil should have extremely thin wire coils so it produces extremely high voltage with barely any amperage. Since voltage does not really create flux (amperage does) we may be able to produce a good amount of output watts without invoking additional drag to the motor.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 06, 2022, 06:47:15 PM
Yes, I am following your thoughts pretty much exactly. It's beginning to make sense. Clear as mud, just a little cleaner mud now... lol

If I was to equate things to the most basic. It seems that the magnetic field around that coil induced by the passing magnets is nothing more than Voltage. Potential energy. That explains why an open circuit coil will show most possible voltage while delivers zero current. The current comes in when everything else is added to the equation. As soon as the circuit is complete, that potential is now allowed to move towards a balanced state that nature is always hunting for. The resistance, inductance, and effects of other magnetic fields all add up to the equation of what the current itself does. It's almost like the more turns outside the original magnetic field is adjusting the capacitance of sorts of the whole circuit. More inductance and resistance added, the more the capacitance drops. Maybe on a molecular level, by adding more and more wire outside of the magnetic field we are accidentally shrinking the capacitance available for that current to work with? I'm not sure, Im just rambling at this point and getting my thoughts out of my head and on paper so to speak. But to me, it is through the very basic of understanding what is going on at the smallest level, that we can determine how to manipulate to our advantage, or prove that the entire thing is a waste of time and move onto something else entirely trying to beat Lenz law. Time will tell. We will only really know when think we have it figured out and we accurately predict the next results. Whether good or bad. Then we will know. Good work. Thanks for working on this stuff with me!


One thing I always keep in the back of my mind. Nikola Tesla ALWAYS moved towards the side of higher voltages, lower current when he was going for efficiency. He would push higher current when he wanted sheer power and torque. I personally am always after the efficiency. Unless of course it's time to chew up a tree in the back yard. Thats when I have to put down my pulse motor and get to work, lol...
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Interesting. Yes time will tell.

Breaking it down in my mind, first asked a question why does a motor bog down under load?

When under load, current is being pulled from the generator coils. Current passing through coils creates electromagnetic fields that stick onto the rotor..

The less current passing through the generator coils, the less drag will be exerted onto the rotor.

So how to maximize output watts while minimizing current?

Very thin wire and high resistance coils. Will produce very high voltage but barely any amperage..

The very high voltage will have to be adjusted after it is out of the circuit to be usable. But I think this is the direction I am going to venture into next
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 06, 2022, 07:18:29 PM
Exactly, and you are seeing now why I have been making all my coils with very thin wire and a shit ton of turns. High resistance is kind of kicking me. I'm seeing the drawbacks of course. But I'm with you on that thought process. In my mind, 20 watts of power delivered  by 5 volts at 4 amps will cause way more drag on the rotor than 200 volts at 100ma. And its exactly the same wattage. Just the way I see it, as I believe you do as well. But the resistance is kind of a booger on that thin wire. But, all of my coils are being wound that way for testing very soon. Both run coils and gen coils. I will have results, whether good or bad. I am either going to have a very good efficient useful design, or I'm going to have the power of toothbrush I have to pump 500 volts into to brush my teeth... lol. But I'm gonna learn something damn it!!!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 06, 2022, 07:30:20 PM
Another thought, im trying not to drift to far off topic, but it does have to do with high voltages coming out of gen coils and possible ways to work with the higher voltage. I do not remember exactly where I heard this from, but I believe it was many years ago the work done by Ronald Brandt and John Bedini. I personally try and avoid using any capacitors in my circuits because from my personal testing, I always seem to lose a lot of efficiency when I store energy in a cap to discharge again. Just my experience. But, I do remember where they were experimenting with doing something backwards in thought that may apply here soon. Maybe it would make the caps more efficient as well. They were charging capacitors in series with high voltage spikes, and discharging them in parallel so the current effectively doubles. As we know, when you hook caps in series the voltage doubles but the capacitance cuts in half. It doesn't do that with batteries, only capacitors. But in parallel, the voltage stays the same and the capacitance doubles... One thing caps are really great for as we know, is supplying the current we need from a high voltage charging source. I will look for the simple circuit I remember for doing this. It was just using diodes and was basically automatic and very easy. I never tried it, but I always thought it was an interesting idea. Maybe it could become relevant here in the future? But then again, some transformers can be nearly 100% efficient with these ac signals already anyway. Just a simple stepdown transformer may fit the bill just fine. But then again with what we just learned, would adding a very high turn coil (the step down transformer) immediately take away energy from the circuit simply by just being there, like our diversion coils do currently? Caps wouldnt do that. So maybe? Just sharing thoughts.


EDIT: I found what I was talking about so I'm adding it here. Here is a link showing it. The concept is further down the page. There are voltage drops due to diodes and stuff. But it's the concept I'm kicking around. Maybe it could be useful here soon?
http://www.tuks.nl/wiki/index.php/Main/BEMFRecoveryCircuit (http://www.tuks.nl/wiki/index.php/Main/BEMFRecoveryCircuit)
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2022, 07:52:13 PM
14 years of coil evolution :  Thane says his scooter will generate 50 Amps at 35 KPH from a disc brake sized magnet rotor and a dozen horseshoes.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 06, 2022, 07:58:41 PM
14 years of coil evolution :


Coils getting smaller and smaller... And then there's me below, "trying something different".... lol  :P 
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 06, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
Captain, since transformers work with AC, I think you were correct in your thinking that it will be no good for this purpose.

I am thinking more along the lines of an MPPT solar charge controller which is rated at voltages higher than what is produced
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2022, 11:31:16 PM

Look at what Lidmotor suceeded at here. He has his generator coils wired in parallel wth his driver coils as Whoppy shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLRqM0nDT_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLRqM0nDT_M)
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2022, 12:54:18 AM

Look at the size of the Capacitor Woopy is shorting accross his output coil:

shorting coil test 5 .wmv - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7SeAzDhXK4)
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 07, 2022, 03:19:04 AM
Captian-

I know all of this info can be found within this forum, but it can be daunting looking through all the threads and picking and piecing the info together.  but after searching, I found a source that describes just about exactly what we are experimenting with.  The bucking of these coils in my hypothesis turns out to be partnered output coils.

This page here goes over it all..  https://studylib.net/doc/18564773/guidelines-to-bucking-coils.-lenz-s-law-free-power-extrac... 

Lenz Free Power Extraction from Bucking Coils.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 07, 2022, 03:40:11 AM
https://m.youtube.com/c/ArkiverUnifiedEnergy/videos
wmbr
L.W.
 
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2022, 04:11:42 PM
Woopy is pointing to the tiny AC capacitor to the inside of the rectifier, on his schematic, between the coil and FWBR. There is a picture of the light brown tantalum micro capacitor above. The value is 40 uF.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2022, 04:39:20 PM
Frequency delays or advances the Lenz effect on the coil. Reducing the capacity of the resonant LC tank raises the frequency and delays the Lenz effect. The higher the frequency the greater the delay!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2022, 06:31:01 PM
Woopy has 2 Hall effect transistors and 2 mosfets driven by a 9 volt battery connected to the positive and negative electrodes of the output coil. It takes a small amount of primary input power to run the shorted coil, but after it's shorted you can load the coil with no further losses.

These components can run multiple coils in series as Lidmotor demonstrated. The circuit does everything Thane Heins's delivers.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 07, 2022, 09:35:39 PM
OK so I got some positive results today and repeatable!  Double checked at least a dozen times and got videos of it if needed...

Bucking diversion coils, so far I up to 19.22% increased efficiency..

When using the diversion coils, BOTH the Input and Output wattage drop...  But the INPUT DROPS more than the Output...

Unloaded=  motor takes 13 watts. No output
Loaded standard series generator-  34 watts input /  12 watts output.  A loss of 22 watts
Loaded with 2 coils bucking-   28.16 watts input  /  8.63 watts output.  A loss of 19.53 Watts
Loaded with 4 Coils Bucking-  24 watts input / 6.23 Output.  A loss of 17.77 Watts
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 07, 2022, 11:12:16 PM
Woopy has 2 Hall effect transistors and 2 mosfets driven by a 9 volt battery connected to the positive and negative electrodes of the output coil. It takes a small amount of primary input power to run the shorted coil, but after it's shorted you can load the coil with no further losses.

These components can run multiple coils in series as Lidmotor demonstrated. The circuit does everything Thane Heins's delivers.
And that actually is a very good explanation of the effect he was using. Seeing lidmotor work with it helps it too. We all know he breaks it down to reality whatever it is. I'll look into this a bit more when I can. Thanks.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 07, 2022, 11:19:23 PM
OK so I got some positive results today and repeatable!  Double checked at least a dozen times and got videos of it if needed...

Bucking diversion coils, so far I up to 19.22% increased efficiency..

When using the diversion coils, BOTH the Input and Output wattage drop...  But the INPUT DROPS more than the Output...

Unloaded=  motor takes 13 watts. No output
Loaded standard series generator-  34 watts input /  12 watts output.  A loss of 22 watts
Loaded with 2 coils bucking-   28.16 watts input  /  8.63 watts output.  A loss of 19.53 Watts
Loaded with 4 Coils Bucking-  24 watts input / 6.23 Output.  A loss of 17.77 Watts


Great stuff. Increased efficiency is moving in the right direction for sure. I haven't had a chance to read everything from what you posted. A lot of driving today for bussiness.. I'll get caught up later. I will be able to get more done on my rotors and coils tonight. Hopefully I'll be built back up with my next design in a couple days and can start working some of these tests as well with my high turn coils. Can't wait. It is good finding others work that is related. I hadn't found any.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 08, 2022, 08:54:11 AM
Look at what Lidmotor suceeded at here. He has his generator coils wired in parallel wth his driver coils as Whoppy shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLRqM0nDT_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLRqM0nDT_M)


I'm kind of wondering if the effect shown by lidmotor and woopy is a little easier to explain. I could be wrong, but here is what I see could be happening. The discussion is that lamps are being lit, without bogging down the rotor or drawing any more current. Now consider this. Woopy is using a 9v battery to "ring" that coil. After he shorts the coil using the 9v battery in this manor, is when he can run the lamps for seemingly free without loading the rotor. Okay, first thing, to me, those LEDs lighting up are not requiring hardly any energy because they are being lit by the collapsing field of course. The whole Joule Thief concept we all know about. When he disconnects the cap, they go out because the field is no longer collapsing because the coil is no longer ringing. The rotor is not slowing down because the leds are not lighting from the field made from the magnets drag on the coil. The magnets are no longer interacting with the coil anymore because with the coil ringing, the core is saturated. A magnet passes right by a saturated core and is not slowed down because there is no interaction. So if you break it down, you have two parts. He is ringing a coil with a cap and 9v battery making LEDs light off of the collapsing field. Thats really just a Joule Thief. And you have rotor that does not see the core as it passes by because it is saturated. Those 2 conditions together explain exactly what is going on I think. Then when he disconnects the 9v battery, the current draw drops in the main circuit. So everything is being paid for to ring that coil. And all he is showing that he gets for it is lighting LEDS off of a collapsing field which we can do without all that set up already for nearly no current.
Just my observations. I completely believe there may be something there. But so far, it looks explainable to me. At least THAT test does that woopy showed. Did I miss something maybe?
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 08, 2022, 01:46:56 PM

I'm kind of wondering if the effect shown by lidmotor and woopy is a little easier to explain. I could be wrong, but here is what I see could be happening. The discussion is that lamps are being lit, without bogging down the rotor or drawing any more current. Now consider this. Woopy is using a 9v battery to "ring" that coil. After he shorts the coil using the 9v battery in this manor, is when he can run the lamps for seemingly free without loading the rotor. Okay, first thing, to me, those LEDs lighting up are not requiring hardly any energy because they are being lit by the collapsing field of course. The whole Joule Thief concept we all know about. When he disconnects the cap, they go out because the field is no longer collapsing because the coil is no longer ringing. The rotor is not slowing down because the leds are not lighting from the field made from the magnets drag on the coil. The magnets are no longer interacting with the coil anymore because with the coil ringing, the core is saturated. A magnet passes right by a saturated core and is not slowed down because there is no interaction. So if you break it down, you have two parts. He is ringing a coil with a cap and 9v battery making LEDs light off of the collapsing field. Thats really just a Joule Thief. And you have rotor that does not see the core as it passes by because it is saturated. Those 2 conditions together explain exactly what is going on I think. Then when he disconnects the 9v battery, the current draw drops in the main circuit. So everything is being paid for to ring that coil. And all he is showing that he gets for it is lighting LEDS off of a collapsing field which we can do without all that set up already for nearly no current.
Just my observations. I completely believe there may be something there. But so far, it looks explainable to me. At least THAT test does that woopy showed. Did I miss something maybe?

Good thought pattern!

I tried shorting / and switching the generator coils several ways.  Heavy duty reed switches, Mosfets, relays, both manual aligning and timing with hall sensors etc. I have not seen any results to suggest it has any real benefit.

Can someone please post a video demonstrating this principle which shows Watts In / Watts Out with a decent load that draws real usable amperage (not LED's). without the inclusion of an "additional power source".

I suspect as captain said-  this method may work as a joule thief allowing us to extract more power than we would otherwise, But I need proof actual real power can be obtained with this idea.

EDIT-  Oh and no videos with music background or hot glue guns. LOL

Thanks
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: ramset on April 08, 2022, 06:58:25 PM
Sirs
Edit ,was on the road before when posting
@ Attention to Floodrod and captainpecan

I did give Luc ( gotoluc ) a call today on some previous discussion you had been musing over here,
He sent this link

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAYsAN5QPnA&feature=youtu.be (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAYsAN5QPnA&feature=youtu.be)


He had done some simple testing ( vid above ) years back ( 2009 ?)  , his only comment today was “attraction supplied More torque” in his above test ( he was testing for a motor application).


You fellows are a breath of fresh air to the open source builders community!
BTW , Luc still hunts the elusive FE beast …(as most here also hunt …


Shared with respect and gratitude
Chet K
Edit to also add
Ps,
Also have actual testing of coil shorting “test videos “
To post from members here ( itsu and Verpies , Grumage and others)
*I do think Luc has also tested this “coil shorting “ ( will check?….

Here starting at post 1675 itsu had series on coil shorting measurements


https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg361569/#msg361569 (https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg361569/#msg361569)
Itsu has perhaps 10  coil shorting videos  ( shortening?) on his you tube …under itsusable
Coil shorting ( might have written “shortening” ?)


( thanks to itsu!!)
Here from member Grum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7gM_3Ji4IMg (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7gM_3Ji4IMg)


These things are shared only as examples,not to imply any negative… there could obviously be possibilities from Alternative methods ( to achieve OU ?)

To note
One comment itsu felt was an accurate summary from his coil shorting experiments ,


Quote from a you tube comment on his videos,
“”

I would say that the Wattage does not change, because what you loose by shortening you get back in the spike


so you can short the coil, but the bemf pulse it creates (which suppose to be the OU part) just fills the gap created with the shortening “”
End quote


Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 09, 2022, 01:31:27 AM
@ramset
I appreciate forwarding this info. You never know where that little nugget that triggers a new idea will come from. Also, it's funny you posted that video from luc. I literally was stalking some of his stuff last week and that particular video made me decide to completely switch my own pulse motor design. I gave every attempt I could at testing repulsion. The attraction is just simply stronger. Hands down. I see others say it over and over as well. I gave it my do diligence, was time to move forward again.
Thanks for the kind words as well. It's refreshing to see others who still appreciate the process.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 09, 2022, 04:23:56 AM
Thanks Ramset....   I watched the first video of the electromagnets attracting / repelling.  My initial evaluation of that one is the iron core is probably the variable that is causing the majority of those results.  Although I do have a hunch there is something special about attraction forces that are stronger than repel, I think those special forces are amplified by the core.

As an explanation,  I can set an electromagnet to repel a permanent magnet, but even in repel mode, the permanent magnet will still stick to the center of the core if the electromagnet is brought close enough.  I feel decent repel force if I keep the permanent magnet away from the core, but when I bring it in close, the core to magnet attraction overrides the repulsion.  I'd be willing to bet the results would be much closer if an air core coil was used.

I am glad you posted this because the last few days I have been debating if I should change my motor to all air core coils and lose the iron.  I question if the iron is even doing any good?

I am going to babble here a bit- but I think it's justified.

I am starting to think that perhaps an air core coil setup may be more efficient (especially with a pulse motor).  But it will probably be less powerful..  With an air coil setup, we lose the cogging problem, and momentum that we build will not be bogged down as easy when we cut power between pulses because the rotor magnets will not have to get past the attraction to the iron.  We could probably pulse it with less duty time because no iron means no attraction to the same coil after we give it the pulse.  Also Lenz Forces will be drastically reduced.

I do see the benefit in iron cores though.  The electromagnet field is definitely stronger and we can also use the attraction to the core for our advantage.  But another problem is the power it takes to repel a permanent magnet if the coil has an iron core is much greater than just an air coil because we need to pump that coil very hard to overcome the core attraction. 

My last point in this jargon speech is to point out how Iron Core Coils will Link with Magnet Sizes.  Basically what I am saying is increasing permanent magnet strength / sizes while using iron cores will not increase efficiency, just increase overall output along with input respectably because the stronger the rotor magnets are, the stronger attraction they have to the core. So any advantage in efficiency is cancelled out.  But with air cores,  the stronger the magnets, the more efficient the motor should be because we are eliminating the iron which governs the whole process. 

I am starting to think more and more that iron cores are good for beastly motors who need much torque to work big loads.  But they will require big input power.  And Air Coils would probably be more efficient overall for things like hunting for OU, even though the output would be less.

Thanks again for all the links. I will review them in detail.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 09, 2022, 05:35:17 AM
I am going to test my theory and go BIG with it. I am printing out another 6 pole rotor.  For a total of (12) 40mmx20mm neos.  Thousands of pounds of pull force combined. I will sandwich 6 air coils between the 2 rotors.  And if the results are promising, I can always add more air core generator coils on top and bottom of the magnet-sandwich.

No iron will be used.  Just max out the permanent magnet force and use a configuration that I feel is less likely to link magnet strength with generated drag and resistance.  As I see it, a theory is just a theory if one does not test it properly.. 

It will take me time to redesign and print all this- but it's underway..
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 09, 2022, 06:01:49 AM
And that was what I did with my Adams motor build many years ago. I moved to air core. I did find it was more efficient. But there was a very noticeable amount of torque change and rpm. The power input was way different as well. But, not expecting to do strong torque work with it, the change really helped me in my build. Certainly worth learning from. But, with my current pulse motor design, a metal core is absolutely necessary for the hidden permanent magnet core design I am testing. I must say, it was very coggy. Then I made a flywheel. No kidding, it would spin for a very log time with just a push and not being powered simply by letting the flywheel carry that momentum through the cog spots. So, although I tend to believe just like you with the advantages and disadvantages of iron core, I need more understanding of them.
A lesson I learned with my Adams motor was that at least with my build, I found it much less efficient trying to draw energy off of the drive coils other than the flyback. Just having a bridge after your coils, you are generating both inward, and outward. Lenz drag both sides. I rigged a 2nd reed switch making it an open coil the entire time between the bridge and coil except for during the power pulse and just a hair past it to collect the flyback. Lens dropped massively. I then worked on pulling more off more collector coils. To me it just seemed to work better letting each half do their own job. At least on my build.
With my new build, I am making my generator coils air core, but on a plastic bushing I can easily slide in a core and test that way as well for each one. Voltage is harder to get from air core, but won't be an issue for me woth 30awg wire. There are many odd tests I want to try from things we discussed here. That 3D printer of yours sure would be handy... lol.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 09, 2022, 05:59:20 PM
And that was what I did with my Adams motor build many years ago. I moved to air core. I did find it was more efficient. But there was a very noticeable amount of torque change and rpm. The power input was way different as well. But, not expecting to do strong torque work with it, the change really helped me in my build. Certainly worth learning from. But, with my current pulse motor design, a metal core is absolutely necessary for the hidden permanent magnet core design I am testing. I must say, it was very coggy. Then I made a flywheel. No kidding, it would spin for a very log time with just a push and not being powered simply by letting the flywheel carry that momentum through the cog spots. So, although I tend to believe just like you with the advantages and disadvantages of iron core, I need more understanding of them.
A lesson I learned with my Adams motor was that at least with my build, I found it much less efficient trying to draw energy off of the drive coils other than the flyback. Just having a bridge after your coils, you are generating both inward, and outward. Lenz drag both sides. I rigged a 2nd reed switch making it an open coil the entire time between the bridge and coil except for during the power pulse and just a hair past it to collect the flyback. Lens dropped massively. I then worked on pulling more off more collector coils. To me it just seemed to work better letting each half do their own job. At least on my build.
With my new build, I am making my generator coils air core, but on a plastic bushing I can easily slide in a core and test that way as well for each one. Voltage is harder to get from air core, but won't be an issue for me woth 30awg wire. There are many odd tests I want to try from things we discussed here. That 3D printer of yours sure would be handy... lol.

Very cool..  I have thought about a magnet core many times, but I keep getting stuck on the fact that the polarity of the PM core will not change and always be orientated one way.  How do you plan to make that work?  Will your passing magnet rotor all be the same polarity magnets? Do you plan to neutralize one pole of the PM inside the coil when you do not want attraction? I am interested to see how you work this. 

I am building my stator now.  It's a little awkward because the stator will be in the middle of 2 rotors so I can not support the coils from only one end. It needs to be equally flat on both sides.  So for the first run, I am sandwiching my coils between 2 pieces of plexiglass.  My magnet to coil gap will be a bit further than I would like, but if the results are good and this design ends up permanent, I can always set the coils in epoxy permanently and close that gap.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 09, 2022, 06:45:45 PM
I've got quite a bit of my learning process in coming up with this design on my other thread. I'll be adding more real soon as the build progresses. Just got my rotor cut this morning and working on other stuff for the new build this weekend. I've got a couple more of the special coils to wind and hopefully I cam be back up and running quick. Then I'll be doing all the tests on the Gen coil side. Still got a lot of winding to do there.
Here is my thread I discussed this build in and will continue to. https://overunity.com/19040/permanent-magnet-assisted-motor-coil-designs/ (https://overunity.com/19040/permanent-magnet-assisted-motor-coil-designs/)

But, for a quick explanation. My magnets are imbeded inside a bushing. I figured the strength of my magnets and how thick the metal has to be to be near saturation to hold all the permanent magnet flux inside the core onto itself. Ive learned through testing that this greatly decreased the amount of current needed to flip that permanent magnet flux outward instead of inward. I have to use all like pole magnets, and I am using an axial flux design so I can use both sides of the coil for each pulse. Basically, the magnet is shorted inside the core containing nearly all the flux. I tried repelling and it worked great. But attraction works better so that the way I'm building it now. I have measure with a scale the exact distance from the core at which the most force is given to the rotor for each pulse. I find that 11 degrees before TDC gives the strongest response for attraction. So as the rotor magnet is attracting to the core, at 11 degrees, it will give a sharp pulse the flips the magnet flux outward from the core added to the natural pulse of the electromagnetic core. The gives huge attraction for the least amount of energy. As the pulse releases, I collect only the flyback. The PM flux naturally shorts out back inside the core as the rotor passes on by. This design gives great power increase for torque, but horrible if I try to use them as a generator coil. Lenz throws on the breaks 2 fold on these things. I'll keep the other thread updated and share everything. I don't want to over run your thread with to far off topic of course. But the 2nd side of my system, the generator side, will be very much on topic here. But it's not built yet. I will also be doing more testd with this special coils only in generator mode. They seriously suck to try and generate from them while alsobtrying to motor with them at the same time. BUT... I want to play around with using them backwards in gen mode. Seeing if I can find a way to maybe line them up and only draw from half the cycle. Meaning, line it up so that the natural repulsion caused by lens of the rotor magnet leaving the gen coil, will flip the permanent magnet to aid in rotor motion while lenz tries to slow it down. Hard to explain. But what is in my head may give a loss on the way in and a gain on the way out. So i would go open coil on the way in, and generate on the way out. Im thinking, maybe we can get a gain only drawing half the power from it? I dont know. My brain hurts trying to think backwards all the time... lol. So many twisted ideas to test!!! More to come.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 09, 2022, 08:40:05 PM
Wow, yeah that's pretty complex.  I will be reading it slowly line by line to fully understand and work it all through my head. I will certainly be watching your updates.

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 09, 2022, 09:22:07 PM
I like the way you think. Who knows until we try it... As you know, there is only so far we can take theories. And it is amazing sometimes how different things react in actual practice. Its so important in my mind to document all the mistakes too. I think so many times everyone gets excited about an idea and keeps posting about it. Then in practice people realize it doesnt work, and nobody posts that info. Then you get so many people repeating the same failures and just getting frustrated. Hell, sometimes I will do things assuming it will fail, just because I cant understand why it fails and I want to repeat it and play with it to learn from it. But, dealing with magnetism, we are dealing with things at the quantum level. And to anyone who has studied into quantum physics, they know things act completely different than expected at times at that level. But to me, that makes it even more fun. But when it is all said and done, if all i ever achieve is finding a way to increase efficiencies by 50% that nobody has ever done before, that's a win in my book even if I never find that elusive free energy. To me that 50% is free because we didn't have it before.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 13, 2022, 02:23:23 AM
A few weeks ago I wanted to build a legitimate Adams Motor as close to the original specs as I possibly could. But as usual, I started then got off track. 

I started with some practice builds before I used all the parts I ordered for the "Correct Build".  In my practice builds, I never tested generator coils, only got the motor running with and without a commutator.  But now is the time I do the "Correct Build"..

Magnets- following the 4 to 1 length recommended ratio, I am using 2" long by 1/2" x 1/2" N42 Neo's. 

Driver Coils-  They call for the cores to be 1/2 the diameter as the magnets and be between 10-20 ohms. SO I am using 14 Ohm coils with 6mm cores.

Polarity-  As Adams states, all the magnets will be the same polarity.

Timing- I will start with hall sensor, and possibly transfer to commutator later.

Generator Coils-  Not sure yet..  I do not have them.  I am considering using  the exact same driver coils as the generator, totaling 6 coils.  (2 drivers 4 collectors).  But this would deviate from the original design as the generator coils are supposed to be larger than the drivers..  I am willing to hear people's opinions on this.

So far, the build is coming out excellent in my opinion.  You can see the basic parts in the pic- and the last support that braces the black coil holder is almost finished printing. 

In a few days time I should be posting a video of it running
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 13, 2022, 11:31:39 PM
Looking good. When I did my adams build, I kept it as close to possible to his instructions. I really cant recommend any changes because you have the ability to 3D print and make a much more accurate build than I did. Personally, I feel I could have done better using a thinner wire for my motor coils. I used 22 guage at the time. I also didn't try many different options on the Gen coils before I drifted to another design and went air core on mine. Whatever direction you choose to move in, I'll be following to see what we can learn from it. I sure could use some of that skill and equipment you have for those nice looking builds. Keep it up!
Also, what is your plan for those 2 little coils pictured? I've got 9 of those exact coils and I've been keeping them in the back of my mind for a good way to use them.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 14, 2022, 01:34:33 AM
Looking good. When I did my adams build, I kept it as close to possible to his instructions. I really cant recommend any changes because you have the ability to 3D print and make a much more accurate build than I did. Personally, I feel I could have done better using a thinner wire for my motor coils. I used 22 guage at the time. I also didn't try many different options on the Gen coils before I drifted to another design and went air core on mine. Whatever direction you choose to move in, I'll be following to see what we can learn from it. I sure could use some of that skill and equipment you have for those nice looking builds. Keep it up!
Also, what is your plan for those 2 little coils pictured? I've got 9 of those exact coils and I've been keeping them in the back of my mind for a good way to use them.

Thanks Cap...

Those coils will be the driver coils. I ohm'd them out at 11 ohms.  and the cores are approximately 1/2 the size of the magnets like adam's plan says.

I will finish this, but just like you, I am always switching ideas. LOL..  Even when I say I will stay on track, I wander. Even now I put together a new idea in my head that is way too intriguing not to test right away..  Since this next one is a pretty simple build to test, I am going to squeeze it in while finishing the Adams.  If it shows any promise, I will show ya :)
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 14, 2022, 03:19:12 AM
Lol... its hard to keep from getting side tracked. Especially when it's one of those odd yet easy to test ideas that just dig at you until you try it... good luck!
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: lancaIV on April 14, 2022, 04:29:43 AM
Hello,
Reply #75

https://overunity.com/19077/running-adams-motor-6-pole-alternating-polarity/dlattach/attach/186412/image// (https://overunity.com/19077/running-adams-motor-6-pole-alternating-polarity/dlattach/attach/186412/image//)

a.  and

b. compared
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19660419&CC=US&NR=3247407A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19660419&CC=US&NR=3247407A&KC=A#)

In the " Citing Documents" a real basic "Bruneel rotoverter" concept improvement,technical production standart apply ,or which different kind&art new ?
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=3247407A&KC=A&FT=D& (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=3247407A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19660419&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)ND=3&date=19660419&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=3247407A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19660419&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)

MagneticTorque a. producing b. physical kind conversion

https://www.google.com/search?q=Magnetic+Torque+International&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=Magnetic+Torque+International&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

 "noise/" (thermisches ' Brownsche')Rauschen" in a. common physics ,b.hyperphysics :

https://www.google.com/search?q=noise+in+physics+compared+in+quantum+physics&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=noise+in+physics+compared+in+quantum+physics&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+noise&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+noise&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

 https://overunity.com/19040/permanent-magnet-assisted-motor-coil-designs/msg565692/#new (https://overunity.com/19040/permanent-magnet-assisted-motor-coil-designs/msg565692/#new)
Reply #168

Albert Einstein (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein) die Erklärung des Photoeffekts (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelektrischer_Effekt): Über einen die Erzeugung und Verwandlung des Lichtes betreffenden heuristischen Gesichtspunkt, Annalen der Physik 322, S. 132–148, 1905
die erste Arbeit zur Speziellen Relativitätstheorie (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezielle_Relativit%C3%A4tstheorie): Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper, Annalen der Physik 322, S. 891–921, 1905
über die brownsche Bewegung (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsche_Bewegung): Über die von der molekulartheoretischen Theorie der Wärme geforderten Bewegung von in ruhenden Flüssigkeiten suspendierten Teilchen. Annalen der Physik 322, S. 549–560, 1905, sowie „Zur Theorie der Brownschen Bewegung“. Annalen der Physik 324, S. 371–381, 1906
die Grundlage der allgemeinen Relativitätstheorie im gleichnamigen Aufsatz: Die Grundlage der allgemeinen Relativitätstheorie, Annalen der Physik 354, S. 769 ff, 1916[9] (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annalen_der_Physik#cite_note-9)


wmbr
OCWL
              https://www.spiesser.de/artikel/die-sprache-der-dichter-und-denker (https://www.spiesser.de/artikel/die-sprache-der-dichter-und-denker)
In Deutschland nehmen wir es genau. Fragst du einen Brasilianer, ob er Obst mag, antwortet er wahrscheinlich mit ja oder nein. Fragst du einen Deutschen, kannst du mit einer Gegenfrage rechnen: "Welches Obst meinst du denn jetzt?" Wir haben einen riesigen Wortschatz, um uns akribisch genau ausdrücken zu können. Deshalb, so ein Bekannter, sei Deutsch auch die Sprache der Philosophie.
Deutsch, die Sprache der Dichter und Denker also? Zumindest für die Poesie wäre Portugiesisch besser, klingt halt schöner.                                                       

                                                                Ein Luso-Galego = Ladino-Deutscher im Poesie-Laendle  ::) ;)       

               PROLOG,Northeim am Harztor : GYMNASIUM,zu lesen :
              GOTT zur EHR,der JUGEND zur LEHR   

              bei richtig angewandter Sprach-REDE           und Sprach-(An-)WENDUNG

              OBER(orbs)/UNTER(urbs)-WELTEN-VERSCHIEBUNG,displacement

                       
                                       https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagge_Portugals
 (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagge_Portugals)           
                                        8)   https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillarsph%C3%A4re (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillarsph%C3%A4re)
                             http://www.mysticum.cc/?Aus_aller_Welt___Portugal%3A_Waldfreimaurer (http://www.mysticum.cc/?Aus_aller_Welt___Portugal%3A_Waldfreimaurer)

Unruhen brachen in der Kolonie Portugiesisch-Timor (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugiesisch-Timor) aus, wo die Flagge im alten Design als heilig verehrt wurde.
                                                    :-\ Heiligtum/Fetisch-devotional

                          https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Micha%C3%ABlis_de_Vasconcelos (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Micha%C3%ABlis_de_Vasconcelos)

                                               Sprache ( Arten&Weisen)  : Koerper-,Bild-,Laut(=Lettren,Ziffern),.......
     
                                                                                  +
     
https://www.google.com/search?q=francis+galton+unterbewusstsein&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=francis+galton+unterbewusstsein&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

                                                                                 =
                                              EBEN-BILD- https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethik (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethik)
                                     Bei all, dunkelste Schwarz zu hellstem Weiss ,Facettengefuege

                    https://www.google.com/search?q=mandala&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=mandala&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)

https://www.google.com/search?q=hohlraumresonator+mensch&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=hohlraumresonator+mensch&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=kaleidoscope+mensch&oq=kaleidoscope+mensch&aqs=heirloom-srp (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=kaleidoscope+mensch&oq=kaleidoscope+mensch&aqs=heirloom-srp)..
                                             to QED and QCD application,ART and SRT   as ASRT
                           http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quacon.html#quacon (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quacon.html#quacon)
                           http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/qed.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/qed.html)
                           http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/color.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/color.html)

                          Alternatively to " particle anihilation ( a - + nihil ~ nichts,nothing) " ,wire-/d/less ?
                                                              trans formation

                                                a.Space    b.Time   c.Speed      d.gravity     e.body

                                                    Di-men-/sional/        -sion--less
                     


https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&ei=esVXYrCMFoaZlwTh37ygAw&q=hohlraumresonator+mensch&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwsZnI_JL3AhWGzIUKHeEvDzQQ7Al6BAgLEAI&biw=600&bih=784#imgrc=RNNzJbS8BTCHeM (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&ei=esVXYrCMFoaZlwTh37ygAw&q=hohlraumresonator+mensch&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwsZnI_JL3AhWGzIUKHeEvDzQQ7Al6BAgLEAI&biw=600&bih=784#imgrc=RNNzJbS8BTCHeM)
                                                       "Licht aus wir wollen schlafen !"
                                                                               ;D https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus238145335/Nahtoderfahrung-Es-wird-hell-und-wie.html
                                                       Hossa hossa,festa .......   aber ohne Rex Dildo,oder so  ::)
                                         https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=smh834dsYu8  ;)                             

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: floodrod on April 15, 2022, 01:01:40 AM
I will be shelfing my Adam's motor builds for now, but wanted to give the last update.

I got the final build running as close to proper specs as I could.  (besides generator coils).  Turns out my makeshift practice builds worked much better than the actual attempt.   

You can see it running here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy_nVNwz4sA

I am not sold on the low amperage / High Ohm driver coils.   I do think high ohm collector / generator coils have advantages, but from what I experienced to date, everything I've built with LARGE diameter copper coils as drivers ran way quicker and stronger with less input wattage than thin wire coils.

I am still intrigued by the Adam's motor idea and perhaps I will revisit it in the future. 

Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: captainpecan on April 15, 2022, 04:46:37 AM
I kind of wondered if it would turn out that way. It's great learning experience. I was not real happy with mine either. I actually did better when i used air core. But most all of my simple pulse motors have performed better since that build. You can get better performance out of thinner wire than that provided you for sure though. My current build is high turn, high ohm, thin coils. I'll keep sharing in there so you can see the results of me going down that road. I'll keep watching for your work with generator coils as well. I'll be posting as I go too. Thanks for sharing your work!

PS.. Thanks for posting that this last build didn't work well for you. Its all learning for all of us. So many leave that part out and just stop so all future readers wonder what the results were.
Title: Re: Running Adams Motor - 6 pole Alternating Polarity
Post by: kolbacict on April 15, 2022, 09:40:40 AM
Why are you stuck on a flat 2D model ?
In two dimensions one cannot achieve asymmetry in a circular cycle.
Maybe use the third dimension?