Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world  (Read 439184 times)

bistander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #285 on: April 02, 2022, 04:20:18 PM »
...

Reading the patent again this appears to refer to the inner rotor coils, not the outer rotor coils, which only develop a weak flux into the output stator, as their steel poles have large airgaps in the closing members either side.

L192

Hello all,
Since we're back to discussing the inner stationary rotor, I want to finish my thoughts which I previously mentioned to Ufo. On my device I have some difficulty with attachments/images. Therefore I'll attempt to post the images here and then add my comments via edits.

Looks like I have the four images attached. Hopefully they are of proper size.
1st is a photo from subject's website of the completed 'rotor' to give some reference to the hardware and size.
2nd is a diagram lifted from a textbook or educational website. Sorry but I don't have a link. Google can find it for you. It shows the way a typical generator field 2-pole rotor is wound. The winding current is fed via slip rings or other method using a DC source. The winding is placed in slots which are in between teeth around the surface. Shown is a cross section perpendicular to the centerline of rotation (shaft). In the slots see circles representing the current. An X in the circle represents current direction into the screen. A dot in the circle represents current direction out the screen.
Note the magnetic field lines, and the direction of the cumulative field or as I call it, flux vector.
3rd attachment is from the patent showing how the rotor is connected.
4th is the center of the above diagram which I snipped out and enlarged. Then I drew in two circles in each slot to represent the two coil sides which lay in the slot. Each tooth on this core (16 total) is shown to have a 5 turn coil. So each of the circles drawn in the slots, represents 5 wires. Next I traced out the currents on the wiring diagram above from the 8 channels + & -, using conventional current direction, + to - outside the source. With this I am able to assign current direction to each coil side (circle) and add the X or dot, out of or into screen.
When the two coil sides in a slot have opposing equal currents, the net mmf contribution is zero. So it is apparent that 14 of the slots contain opposing coil sides therefore make no contribution to the field. Only slots between teeth 16 & 1 and between 8 & 9 have coils sides which aid each other and contribute. Hence the rotor will have effectively two coils of 5 turns each. This means only 12.5% of the copper is utilized at any instant. Actually less if you consider end-turns. About 90% of the copper is along for the ride or worse, needlessly wasting power and heating the machine.
It is for these reasons such cores are typically wound using lap or overlaid coils where the coil span (distance between coil sides) is nearly equal to the pole pitch. Winding such a core as they have done makes absolutely no sense.

bi

TommeyReed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Holcomb Energy System Questions ?
« Reply #286 on: April 02, 2022, 04:36:40 PM »
Hello All,

 This company is making claims that seems to breaks all laws of conservation of energy.

Are there any true verified documents from independent companies?

This is nothing more then a transformer, I think by looking at this simple design they could be using Back EMF.

https://holcombenergysystems.com/
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 10:12:44 PM by hartiberlin »

TommeyReed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Holcomb Energy System Questions ?
« Reply #287 on: April 02, 2022, 04:52:01 PM »
This is a simple transformer. ?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 11:06:59 PM by hartiberlin »

pmgr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • Stop organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #288 on: April 02, 2022, 05:25:00 PM »
Agree Bistandar. That's how the inner rotor is configured. It imitates a permanent magnet spinning around. The outer rotor is wired the same way and in sync with the inner rotor and reinforces the inner rotor. Per his patent images, the center stator is wired exactly as a 4 pole 3 phase generator stator. So basically no different from a regular 3 phase generator. For those of us that don't know, you can read this link https://electricalacademia.com/synchronous-machines/three-phase-ac-generator-working/ for a basic explanation of a 2 pole and 4 pole 3 phase generator.

e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1956
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #289 on: April 02, 2022, 06:59:40 PM »
snip < Winding such a core as they have done makes absolutely no sense.

bi
> snip


Makes no sense unless it happens to work  ;)    If you are basing your statement on their patent info you do know patents often mislead with details that make it impossible for others to copy their work.   Maybe consider this is intentional misdirection...

Ufopolitics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #290 on: April 02, 2022, 08:02:53 PM »

Hello All,



I agree with Bistander, in the fact that the way that rotor is wound has no sense from the wiring side or the magnetic output side. IMHO, it does not output a strong Magnetic Field outwards, but "mini fields"...however, as they are mentioning on Patent, that is their purpose, to start with a very low intensity field...


Now, apart from all "possible technical errors"...let's filter just the "Basic Principle"


And so, I, basically like to see the Big Picture here...and that is Rotating a Magnetic Field through metal cores and windings...the Basic Principle here...and so, the means to achieve it,  could be right or wrong...I still remain with the Basic Principle.


So, I want to bring out here a couple of frame images from an animation scene I created a long time ago...(I had to scrap it from old drives, so glad I found it!!)... but now I consider it is of great value...


If We analyze a typical Lap Wound Armature Magnetic Field, simple, two brush type, two stators, while it is in Rotation...and, yes, this "scenario" applies to ALL Motors, PM DC or Universal Type, no matter if Three (3) poles all the way to 36 Poles.


We realize the Rotor Magnetic Field is completely Static*...while the rotor steel frame and copper windings are rotating...as the Two (Positive-Negative) Brushes imaginary line defines the North from the South Poles of the Field...


This Field Static Positioning (Independently of multiple series coils being reversing electrical and magnetic polarization at millisecond rates), this Static Field causes the steel rotor (that could be of massive weight) to spin...


completely static* Yes, I know it is not perfectly static, as there are acceleration and deceleration forces involved, which makes it oscillate in the borders, as a tendency to diverge the field in the sense of rotation in some kind of distortion.


And, please, correct me if I am wrong, anytime.


Point here is simple...we have a Steel Rotor with windings spinning THROUGH an invisible field, which remains STATIC.

Now, let's do the "REVERSE ENGINEERING" of above fact.

Why, can we just hold the Rotor-Coils assembly in place, keeping same air gap...and spin the same, intensity Field?

We all had this scenario in front of our eyes for hundred of years... :(






Cheers






Ufopolitics

Ufopolitics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #291 on: April 02, 2022, 08:27:10 PM »
@Bistander,


Don't this type of winding on Holcomb's Design, reminds you of the typical Outrunner BLDC Inner Static Armature winding?...where coils are basically wound on each pole?


And the BLDC (Hub Motor Type, Outrunner) uses Three Phase DC (Square Wave), but also set at 120º apart....some work with a sensor and others use one of the phase as the guidance for positioning...




See attached image...




Cheers




Ufopolitics

bistander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #292 on: April 02, 2022, 08:30:57 PM »
Hello All,

...
Now, let's do the "REVERSE ENGINEERING" of above fact.

Why, can we just hold the Rotor-Coils assembly in place, keeping same air gap...and spin the same, intensity Field?

We all had this scenario in front of our eyes for hundred of years... :(
...
Ufopolitics

Yes Ufo,
We have it. With the polyphase AC stator. Stationary steel and copper with a rotating constant magnitude magnetic field. That field can be 2-pole, 4-pole, 6 ...., just like you can develope with the wound (or PM) rotating rotor. A charge in the air gap won't know the difference.
bi

bistander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #293 on: April 02, 2022, 08:40:33 PM »
@Bistander,


Don't this type of winding on Holcomb's Design, reminds you of the typical Outrunner BLDC Inner Static Armature winding?...where coils are basically wound in each pole?


And the BLDC (Hub Motor Type, Outrunner) uses Three Phase DC (Square Wave), but also set at 120º apart....some work with a sensor and others use one of the phase as the guidance for positioning...




See attached image...




Cheers




Ufopolitics

Sorta. But what you show is an armature, not a field winding. The field on that motor is PM, and a lot more than 2 or 4 poles. What you see in the photo are teeth and slots, not poles. The magnets determine the number of poles. If you were to wire those coils like they did for a 2-pole application, you'd have the same issue.... only 2 effective coils and a lot of wasted copper.
bi

Ufopolitics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #294 on: April 02, 2022, 08:44:04 PM »
Yes Ufo,
We have it. With the polyphase AC stator. Stationary steel and copper with a rotating constant magnitude magnetic field. That field can be 2-pole, 4-pole, 6 ...., just like you can develope with the wound (or PM) rotating rotor. A charge in the air gap won't know the difference.
bi


So, what you are saying is basically what Cotnoir did...in his own way of winding and switching...He used 6 Poles in his outer static rotor.


Now, in the other scenario, (lap winding) when we apply power to coils in series, with a "T" derivation to commutator element, and apply power at just two or four points of armature coils...current will remain the same within the whole series of coils, typically lower, no matter if we apply more power (V) to Armature...that is what happens in any lap wound motor...as I will dare to say that it even lowers amps, as we increase V...correct?




Regards




Ufopolitics

Ufopolitics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #295 on: April 02, 2022, 09:00:53 PM »
Sorta. But what you show is an armature, not a field winding. The field on that motor is PM, and a lot more than 2 or 4 poles. What you see in the photo are teeth and slots, not poles. The magnets determine the number of poles. If you were to wire those coils like they did for a 2-pole application, you'd have the same issue.... only 2 effective coils and a lot of wasted copper.
bi


Yeah, sorry, my bad, confused poles, meant teeth... :(


But point here is that a number of coils wound on each teeth, next to each others, determine a Pole, and that arrangement could be modified through their electronic switching PLC (programmed) and executed by each channel in many different "fashions".


I do not know if you've noticed, but on Holcomb's Patent Diagrams, he shows different configurations of magnetic poles (N-S) arrangements...


See image 23 of a different setup below. note the polarities change versus the FIG22 (which you upload it before)....yes, I know it has a different inner rotor coils added...but referring to same rotor as seen on Image 22 Poles config.




Cheers






Ufopolitics

bistander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #296 on: April 02, 2022, 10:16:58 PM »

So, what you are saying is basically what Cotnoir did...in his own way of winding and switching...He used 6 Poles in his outer static rotor.


Now, in the other scenario, (lap winding) when we apply power to coils in series, with a "T" derivation to commutator element, and apply power at just two or four points of armature coils...current will remain the same within the whole series of coils, typically lower, no matter if we apply more power (V) to Armature...that is what happens in any lap wound motor...as I will dare to say that it even lowers amps, as we increase V...correct?




Regards




Ufopolitics

Sorry Ufo,
I don't know what the other fellow did. And you lost me. What I am talking about it the common universally available polyphase machine like the NEMA standard 3-phase induction motors or standard synchronous generators of which millions are working in industry today.
bi

bistander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #297 on: April 03, 2022, 12:27:02 AM »

Yeah, sorry, my bad, confused poles, meant teeth... :(


But point here is that a number of coils wound on each teeth, next to each others, determine a Pole, and that arrangement could be modified through their electronic switching PLC (programmed) and executed by each channel in many different "fashions".
...
Ufopolitics

Ufo,
It depends. Here, they appear to wind a core which appears to be from a DC armature to use as a field. Used as an armature, the field would determine the number of poles. Typically the coil span on the armature is made to be very close to the pole pitch, so one coil side is under a N while the other coil side is under a S. The point here is that it is a waste of copper to have conductors (coil sides) in the same slot carrying current in opposite directions. Current one way simply cancels opposing current. The net current in the slot contributes to the work.

And I had not seen Fig. 23. Obviously a 4-pole attempt. Has same issue as the 2-pole Fig.22. This has 2 coils on each tooth, in parallel of the same magnetic polarity, seemingly separated by some sort of magnetic bridge to adjacent teeth. Pardon me, but seeing what I have of this guy, I'm not likely to read the patent to further understand his logic, or lack thereof.
bi

TommeyReed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #298 on: April 03, 2022, 04:14:10 PM »
Hi All,

 I have found in the past doing Back EMF this simple diode set up works very good. It also protects mosfets at high speed switching.

Output should have capacitors to collect return voltage of BEMF.

marcosbk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #299 on: April 03, 2022, 04:36:21 PM »
Hi Ufopolilitics...
"We all had this scenario in front of our eyes for hundred of years... :( "


in my only  post some time ago I was also asking something that looks very close.
anyway, a lot in common with Figuera and Antonio D Angelo patent.
Just rewinded a old rotor as holcomb/D Angelo have...need sometestings

rgds